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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Questions????

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  • #1

    Questions????

    Are the players pushed too hard?

    The Pacers have been having injury problems the last couple years and they apparently don't know why. The evidence for that was moving long time trainer David Craig to the front office and hiring another trainer. That seems to me to have been at least a vote of no confidence in David, but it didn't make sense to me. The reason it didn't make sense is I've been around long enough to remember another time when the Pacers were having what seemed like more than their share of injury problems then they hired David and there weren't so many injuries any more.

    Are the injury problems caused by the Pacers starting to push the players too hard in the off season and David wasn't down with it? Or was David pushing the players too hard and the team wasn't down with it? I think it's the former because the Pacers are sending coaches to workout players in the off season. Is it too much?

    Lets go another direction.

    Is JO injury prone, or is it other factors?

    The length of an NBA season is 82 games, plus 8 preseason games, plus up to 28* playoff games, plus enumerable practices. Add to that the fact that people push themselves and others harder when they get close to the object of their affection, in this case an NBA championship. Now add to that, that this could go on season after season if the team is an elite team.

    In JO's case there's more. He's been playing for this country just about every Summer. Plus he's gained weight to protect himself because the team constantly plays him out of position. He's a power forward often asked to play center.

    There's more. JO being the highly motivated man he is, calls the other players and most show up for practices 2 weeks early.

    So, is JO becoming injury prone from all this? That being, pushing and being pushed to hard.


    Is Danny Granger being pushed to hard?

    What I want to know is who's idea is it to play the players out of their optimum position so much? Walsh? Bird? Carlisle?

    Sometimes circumstances are such that players have to play out of position. But the Pacers routinely use players out of their natural positions for long stretches of time. Does that contribute to their getting hurt?

    Why did the Pacer brass decide to give Ron Artest a go at power forward last Summer? Using him there had to mean playing JO at center, so both would be playing out of their natural positions against bigger players.

    And now what are they doing with Danny Gee? A natural small forward that even played some point guard in college.
    http://golobos.collegesports.com/spo...012404aaa.html

    While still in college Danny was asked a series of questions. Note his answer to this one.

    What position do you see yourself playing at the next level, and what do you think you need to improve on to get there? (Ricky D.)

    DG: I think I would play a small forward, or even a shooting guard at the next level. I think I need to work on my ball handling skills and my outside jump shot, and I need to get stronger.
    http://golobos.collegesports.com/spo...020804aaa.html

    Notice he didn't mention power forward, but the Pacers wanted him to learn that position from the get go. Why? We have an All Star at the PF position? They wanted Artest to learn the position too, so it seems to be they were committing themselves to using JO out of position. Otherwise why groom two small forwards for power forward?

    A question was asked of Conrad Brunner last Summer, namely, Is Shooting Guard Really a Problem? In his answer he said, "Danny Granger almost certainly will play somewhere, whether it's as a backup at shooting guard or small forward or both."
    http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_050725.html


    The thing is, they didn't even try Danny at shooting guard, they just decided he could play PF as well as SF. It's these kind of decisions that make me suspect the Pacer brass are behind the Pacer's injuries. Namely Larry Bird.

    I think Bird is an awesome judge of talent, but I also think he might be too opinionated. He's formed his opinions from playing at a championship level, and players that have reached his level typically think they know better than everyone else. Has Bird decided on an off season work load that is too much for some players?

    So . . .

    [ ] Is JO injury prone?
    [ ] Is JO becoming injury prone?
    [ ] Is JO's work Ethic too much for his body?
    [ ] Is JO played out of position too much?
    [ ] Do the Pacers push their players too hard?
    [ ] Do the players push too hard?
    [ ] Does JO weigh too much?
    [ ] Are the Pacers using Danny Granger wrong?
    [ ] Are the Pacers trying to hard to develop multi position players?
    [ ] Do todays players work and play basketball, to hard, for to long, to also play out of position, for very long against bigger players.



    * Four, seven game series, all going the distance.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Questions????

    [X] Does JO weigh too much?
    [X] Is JO played out of position too much?
    [? ] Are the Pacers trying to hard to develop multi position players?

    I don't know if one thing here proceeds all others,B-Ball's chicken or the egg quandry, but I think both the selected JO points factor in. Even more ironic there ,though, is that this whole multi-position thing is to a certain extent motivated by injury to begin with. I'm thinking of JO's case. I mean if we had more than one other healthy natural C option on our roster, maybe he doesn't play it as much. Personally, I think the added weight, whether a consequence of any of the other choices or not, is an important factor.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Questions????

      Certain players are just injury prone. Often times certain players get injured just because of the ay they play. Reggie Miller picked his spots when he went into the lane to grab a rebound, he was (smart enough) to not go in there every time. He also didn't drive to the basket every time. Age and numbr of years in the NBA impacts how injury prone a player is. Shaq didn't have any injuries his first few seasons, but now he is very injury prone.

      I'm a huge believer that certaibn layers are just not made to play 82 games a season at starter minutes. No matter what they do or no matter what they don't do. J.O is one of those guys. I suggested two or three seasons ago that the Pacers should play him 20 games and then sit him 5 throughout the whole season. Even when he does play about 10 games in a row his back or other nagging type injuries crop up.

      I'm going to make a prediction about Granger. I don't think he's going to be injury prone. He's so smooth, he has almost a perfect basketball type body, i don't think he'll be injury prone

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Questions????

        JO has definitely become injury prone since he signed his max deal. I think all of the factors mention are part of the issue. My fear is that he always be injury prone and the bigger question is do you want to keep a max contract player who can only play 75% of the time?
        "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
        - Benjamin Franklin

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Questions????

          Originally posted by fwpacerfan
          JO has definitely become injury prone since he signed his max deal. I think all of the factors mention are part of the issue. My fear is that he always be injury prone and the bigger question is do you want to keep a max contract player who can only play 75% of the time?

          he was injury prone prior to signing his extension.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Questions????

            JO wasn't really injury prone until that other injury-prone, always breaking down center was traded away.

            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Questions????

              Originally posted by Jay@Section204
              JO wasn't really injury prone until that other injury-prone, always breaking down center was traded away.


              Ding ding! We have a winner! Before the Center Of Which We Do Not Speak was traded, teams couldn't double JO every time he touched the ball. Makes a huge difference, both in injuries and effectiveness.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Questions????

                Let's start with the most important part of this discussion; please define "injury prone" because I am sure most people have different definitions for the word

                I for one do not count either Jamaal or JO to be "injury prone" but to having A; a bout of bad luck and B; being "overworked" while having minor injuroes thus creating the far worse situations

                Bender on the other hand is injuryprone, since he is now retiring he might have redefined that but still, 2 games followed by an injuryis definitely injury prone, certainly if that injury is re-curring.

                However; JO's knee (ECF FInals) JO's shoulder last year are "freak incidents" and his current groin tear is a result of playing with a sprained ankle.
                Jamaal's foot injury last year= freak, as is his current Biceps tear.
                re-curring injuries (musclegroups always the same, or likewise injuries) would be a far greater worry, however the fact that several freak injuries occur makes the likelyood of re-occurence later on less (stats).

                So if anyone can give a more defined definition of "injury prone" it might stop us talking about different themes in the same discussion.
                So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Questions????

                  Not only that, but the guy who always breaks down generally drew the other team's most physical defender (even if he was just shooting fifteen foot jumpers) and JO took much less punishment.

                  I used to be strongly in the "JO can play center" camp. Not anymore. JO's a "4".

                  The number of players we have out of position will also be highlighted in the "Tale of two Cities" thread that's coming soon.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Questions????

                    Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                    JO wasn't really injury prone until that other injury-prone, always breaking down center was traded away.



                    I realize this is conventional wisdom, but I just don't buy the theory.

                    Give me an example where a more physical defender guarded J.O. that would have otherwise guarded Brad Miller.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Questions????

                      JO is no more injury prone than any other player. Or you or me. Probably a whole bunch less than you or me because of the outstanding physical condition he's in.
                      He gets hurt because he's our STAR player. Was our best rebounder. Is our post scorer. Guards the other teams bigs. Gets doubled the most.
                      Those ALL mean he's going to get WHACKED and HIT and SHOVED and KICKED more than anybody else on the team.
                      Pretty simple really.

                      As to the notion that guys are going to get hurt more if they 'play out of position', I don't buy that a bit either. It's BASKETBALL, not football. There's not THAT much difference between playing 3 and playing 4. Artest offsets height difference with great strength. He hurt his hands all the time because he's constantly slapping at the ball, and his man. Jermaine offsets strength with quickness. He's had some bad luck,that's all.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Questions????

                        Originally posted by PacerMan
                        He gets hurt because he's our STAR player. Was our best rebounder. Is our post scorer. Guards the other teams bigs. Gets doubled the most.
                        Those ALL mean he's going to get WHACKED and HIT and SHOVED and KICKED more than anybody else on the team.
                        Pretty simple really.
                        You could say the same for Duncan and Garnett, but generally they haven't had the same degree of injury problems.

                        So, no, it's not that simple really.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Questions????

                          UHhh rabid > Duncan might not be the "best" example: last year 66 games the year before 69 games

                          that is 16 & 13 games missed
                          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Questions????

                            Originally posted by Unclebuck
                            I realize this is conventional wisdom, but I just don't buy the theory.

                            Give me an example where a more physical defender guarded J.O. that would have otherwise guarded Brad Miller.
                            I'm not sure I understand the question.

                            When we had both players, the opponent's center spent significant amounts of the game matched up with Brad, at either end of the court.

                            You don't even have to guard your guy Foster to keep him from scoring - heck our opponents WANT him to have the ball. And with Foster around, he sure doesn't absorb any of the phsical beating to help JO. He just runs really really fast and chases down rebounds.
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Questions????

                              Originally posted by able
                              Let's start with the most important part of this discussion; please define "injury prone" because I am sure most people have different definitions for the word



                              So if anyone can give a more defined definition of "injury prone" it might stop us talking about different themes in the same discussion.
                              I went to the dictionary and looked up "injury prone" and there was Jamaal's picture.



                              -Bball
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

                              Comment

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