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Thread: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    There is some new details in this article. Interesting


    http://premium.si.cnn.com/pr/subs2/s...206/index.html

    A Season Over The Brink


    Look what Ronnie has wrought. The Pacers finally rid themselves of talented but troubled Ron Artest, who made his debut with the Kings last week. But back in Indiana, a team that was once talking title is now facing an overhaul


    By Jack McCallum

    Until last Thursday afternoon the name Artest was still on a chalkboard in Rick Carlisle's locker room office. "Hmm, guess I haven't changed that starting lineup in a while," said the Indiana Pacers' coach, picking up an eraser. When told that he might want to wipe off o'neal too -- All-Star power forward Jermaine O'Neal will miss at least two months, and perhaps the rest of the regular season, with a torn left groin muscle -- Carlisle considered it. "No," he said finally, "I think I'll leave him on."

    Who could blame Carlisle for pretending that his best player was still available? Over the last four months Carlisle has presided over an underachieving and flawed team (21-21 at week's end) held hostage by Ron Artest, a troubled and often troubling soul who was traded to Sacramento on Jan. 25. "The Tru Warier meets the Kings," the 6'7", 246-pound Artest said in a TV interview last week, hyping himself and his record label. Ah, just what they need at sign-happy Arco Arena: a new slogan.

    The Pacers' post-Warier era officially began last Friday with a 93-89 loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers at Conseco Fieldhouse, their fifth straight defeat and 13th in their last 19 games. Still, there were positive signs. Indiana was missing not only O'Neal but also point guard Jamaal Tinsley (sore right elbow) and demon rebounder Jeff Foster (back spasms). Plus, sharpshooting forward Peja Stojakovic, obtained from Sacramento for Artest, was unavailable, having arrived in town only hours before the game. Yet Indy played hard and stayed in the game until the end, getting solid performances from rookie forward Danny Granger (21 points, 14 rebounds) and young gun Fred Jones (20 points). "We fought together," said guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, "and that showed we can be a good basketball team."

    After months -- nay, years -- of being Ar-tested by one of the strangest personalities on the sports landscape, the Pacers could not be blamed for looking at the bright side. In fact, both teams put a happy face on the swap -- It's a deal that helps both teams! -- but no one can say with certainty if any lasting good will come out of it. It's likely that Artest will eventually lock horns with shoot-first point guard Mike Bibby. And though the 6'10" Stojakovic's size and touch have led to comparisons with Pacers president Larry Bird, Stojakovic's model as a player, Peja lacks Bird's toughness, post-up moves, rebounding skills, playmaker aptitude and get-in-the-passing-lane defensive instincts. He is Larry Ultra Lite.

    Larry Legend, who still stops traffic when he goes on international scouting missions, is a central figure in the Artest saga. Bird wanted to swap Artest for Stojakovic after the 2003-04 season -- the deal was nixed by Pacers owners Melvin and Herbert Simon -- yet he is also the member of the organization most closely aligned with Artest, so much so that the Artest Era seems destined to go down as Larry's Folly. If the old, tough-minded Celtic immortal likes him, the thinking went around Pacer Land, everyone had to like him.

    But Bird wasn't the only one seduced by Artest. The Simons liked Artest the people's favorite, a man whose strong rapport and gentleness with fans masked the turmoil within. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh liked Artest the talent, a player whose on-court repertoire includes three-point range, a post-up game and demon defense. (He was the league's Defensive Player of the Year in '03-04.) Bird liked Artest the gym rat, the human sweatbox who would practice nonstop for two hours in the off-season. "Then Ronnie might get on a plane and go play a couple of pickup games in Chicago," says Bird. "I wish I had a guy like that to work out with when I was playing."

    Fact is, all the Pacers' execs liked Artest so much they were sounding like the Four Seasons: "Ronnie. Ronnie. Ronnie, I am regretting but can't stop forgetting because ... you were my first love."

    Certainly Ronnie-love was in the Hoosier air this past summer. Artest, as is his wont, worked out dutifully, and Bird, among others, became convinced that he would come back physically fit (understandable) and mentally stable. (Huh?) The last glimpse of Artest in the 2004-05 season for many Pacers came after Detroit eliminated them in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference semis, when Artest drove a black Escalade wildly onto the Conseco loading dock in full view of the Pistons' team bus, then jumped out of the SUV, ripped off his shirt and walked into the arena. By some accounts he was heading into Conseco to play a late-night shooting game with teammate Jonathan Bender. It was a classic moment from the Theater of Artest -- strangely endearing, seriously loony.

    Still, says Bird, "with all that happened last season [a reference to Artest's 73-game suspension for igniting one of the ugliest brawls in sports history at The Palace of Auburn Hills], we really felt that this year would be, maybe not perfect, but all right." O'Neal and Stephen Jackson even joined Artest for an off-season tête-à-tête with Walsh and Bird, during which the players argued for keeping the core together, proving that Artest's seductive powers extended even to those teammates he had let down so often.

    But everything went haywire a month into this season, either because Artest believed that the Pacers were trying to trade him (Walsh and Bird say No, no, a thousand times no!) or because, well, because he's Artest.

    Two Pacers told SI that Artest regularly started physical altercations during practice. The skirmishes "weren't boxing matches," says one of the players, but they didn't do much for team unity. If Artest believed that he was being treated unfairly in practice by Carlisle or one of his teammates, he refused to run through a play. Or hours before a game he would announce in the locker room that he wasn't going to play that evening, only to change his mind soon thereafter.

    At least twice this season, he was outside the locker room, in street clothes, talking on a cellphone 20 minutes before tip-off. He came to believe that everything he did wrong in Indianapolis was magnified, which was true, but he ignored the fact that the hometown fans had cut him enormous slack despite his 87 games' worth of suspensions over 41Ú2 seasons as a Pacer. Among his teammates he was closest to Jackson and Tinsley, but eventually the Tru Warier had no true allies. "It was Ron against the world," says one player.


    Still, until Dec. 11, the day Artest announced in an interview with the Indianapolis Star that he wanted to be traded, management spun furiously for him. It was Artest's passion that led him to overreact in games and practices, Pacers execs would say. Sure, the team might be affected by his outbursts, but Artest was "a guy who could walk into a restaurant and get into a conversation with anyone," Bird said last week.

    Despite Artest's rap sheet the Kings weren't the only team that tried to get him. Far from it. Dealing Artest for Corey Maggette of the Los Angeles Clippers would have almost certainly gone down three weeks ago had Indiana not been scared off by recent tests on Maggette's left foot. According to a Pacers source, talks with the Denver Nuggets about Artest for Kenyon Martin were serious, but Indiana was unwilling to take on Martin's contract (five years remaining for $70.9 million). The New Orleans Hornets wanted Artest but offered only draft choices. Walsh and Bird had conversations with many other teams, including the Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, Minnesota Timberwolves and Golden State Warriors, but nothing ever came close to being cemented. Eventually, only the Kings, who are trapped in their own going-nowhere nightmare, had enough to get it done, offering a player that Bird had apparently wanted before he became reseduced by the beguiling Warier. "We made a mistake, obviously," says Bird. "When you're in the business of figuring out what's best for a team, you can't fall in love."

    So now Indy's spotlight is on Stojakovic, who is in some ways the anti-Artest: shy, modest, congenitally unable to foment discontent. Though the way he found out about the trade angered him -- Kings owners Joe and Gavin Maloof spilled the beans on television before they told Stojakovic -- he seems genuinely glad to be in Indiana under the watchful eye of his hoops role model. "Being on Larry's team," he said last Friday, "is kind of like a dream." Stojakovic, 28, can opt out of his contract at season's end, but Bird says, "I've been after this kid for two years, and I don't want him to be here two weeks."

    Stojakovic will never be the defensive warrior Artest is, but he will have to improve his D to satisfy Carlisle, not to mention the hoops-savvy fans at Conseco. Since Indy plans to dust off some old Reggie Miller-type plays for him, Stojakovic will have ample opportunity to prove that his declining scoring average (from 24.2 points per game in '03-04 to 20.1 last season to 16.5 in 31 games through Sunday) resulted from nagging injuries (pinky, groin, back) and a Sacramento offense that turned from move the ball to move out of Bibby's way.

    There are other issues for a team that was seventh in the East at week's end. With the arrival of Stojakovic, Carlisle will have to find minutes and shots for Granger and Jones. Tinsley's shot-clock-devouring, back-back-back-it-down style needs an overhaul. And with O'Neal out, it might be a good time for Jackson -- a sometimes delightful guy who occasionally stares absentmindedly into the stands during games, as he did on Friday during an abysmal 6-for-20 shooting performance -- to zone in instead of zoning out. Most important, the franchise will have to decide whether O'Neal is a franchise player or just a talented opening act who needs a headliner. Many around the league suspect the latter.

    The one certainty is that, for now, all is quieter on the Conseco front. "Ron was a funny dude, and we'll miss some of that," says backup point guard Anthony Johnson. "But it was time for it to be over." Make that way past time, A.J.

    Issue date: February 6, 2006

  2. #2
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    A very big thanks for posting, UB.

    You highlighted the right section, even though it pisses me off to no end to read that stuff.

  3. #3
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Glad to see some of the other oddities of Ron Artest are coming out . Those close to the team have known this for awhile.

    Ron is a good guy , but you can't depend on him to ever be 100% committed to being a good teammate. I doubt that part of Ron ever changes.

  4. #4
    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Among his teammates [Artest] was closest to Jackson and Tinsley
    1 down, 2 to go
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Again, we and the world face the truth, Ron is crazy!!!
    He lives in his own world!

    I'm glad we are rid of him!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Had I known beforehand what UB highlighted, I would have said trade him last summer.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    There's really nothing new here.

    Its been widely discussed that this stuff also happened with the Bulls.

    You guys have had your blinders on... some of us have been trying to tell you its really this bad for years.

    Did you really think he just stopped being a jackass to his teammates overnight?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  8. #8
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Bird wanted to swap Artest for Stojakovic after the 2003-04 season -- the deal was nixed by Pacers owners Melvin and Herbert Simon
    Does this mean that the Sacto owners weren't the ones who killed this deal? Does this obsolve DW and LB of responsibility for keeping Ron?

  9. #9
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    There's really nothing new here.

    Its been widely discussed that this stuff also happened with the Bulls.

    You guys have had your blinders on... some of us have been trying to tell you its really this bad for years.

    Did you really think he just stopped being a jackass to his teammates overnight?
    NO *****!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I can't believe all the storks here. Head stuck firmly in the sand while the rumors flew for years. We need a "hear no evil, see no evil" icon!

  10. #10
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    NO *****!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I can't believe all the storks here. Head stuck firmly in the sand while the rumors flew for years. We need a "hear no evil, see no evil" icon!
    Wasn't that an ostrich?

    I was expecting someone from here at PD to deliver my new baby boy or something....

    I'm glad Ron is gone too.

    Thanks for posting the article, UB...



    RESIDENT COUNTING THREAD PHILOSOPHIZER

  11. #11
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    I've always understood it that Sacramento said no in '04, I never heard anything about the Simon's involvement until this week.

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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
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    1 down, 2 to go
    exactly.

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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    I look at the comment about him sometimes not suiting up 20 minutes prior to a game as a "slacker" type of guy....you know...the 16 year old kid that would much rather sleep in and wakes up 10 minutes before he's supposed to show up at McDonald's. Its like Basketball is a game to him...as opposed to his job.....not the main priority....just one of his priorities.

    But you can say that about many other players that has too much talent for them to know what to with. I guess Artest simply needs to stay focused...that's all. I could only imagine the type of player that he could be if he didn't have all these distractions.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Most important, the franchise will have to decide whether O'Neal is a franchise player or just a talented opening act who needs a headliner. Many around the league suspect the latter.
    Who is the author referring to when he says "Many around the league suspect the latter"? Are people finally being exposed to the real J.O.? Is his trade value as high as some of us would like to believe?

  15. #15
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    At least twice this season, he was outside the locker room, in street clothes, talking on a cellphone 20 minutes before tip-off. He came to believe that everything he did wrong in Indianapolis was magnified, which was true, but he ignored the fact that the hometown fans had cut him enormous slack despite his 87 games' worth of suspensions over 41ŕ2 seasons as a Pacer. Among his teammates he was closest to Jackson and Tinsley, but eventually the Tru Warier had no true allies. "It was Ron against the world," says one player.
    Does this maybe fit in with my question "Where was Artest (and O Neal) during warmups for the Philly (home opener) game?"

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Who is the author referring to when he says "Many around the league suspect the latter"? Are people finally being exposed to the real J.O.? Is his trade value as high as some of us would like to believe?
    I've always thought that the "superstar" label on JO was too generous. He's a good player, but he has lots of limitations. I don't think other teams would be falling all over themselves if it were known that JO was on the trading block.

  17. #17
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Munson
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    I've always thought that the "superstar" label on JO was too generous. He's a good player, but he has lots of limitations. I don't think other teams would be falling all over themselves if it were known that JO was on the trading block.
    JO is below the top level superstars (Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Duncan, Wade), but is still one of the top 20 players. I think he would draw about as much interest as Elton Brand, which would be a lot. ...and you can nitpick even Duncan on his foul shooting, but to be sure he would draw interest too. In any event, if JO went on the block, about every team in the league would try to get him.

    [Edit: unless you consider his salary, for which he is arguably overpaid]

  18. #18
    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting SI article on the Pacers and Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    NO *****!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I can't believe all the storks here. Head stuck firmly in the sand while the rumors flew for years. We need a "hear no evil, see no evil" icon!
    Yep... lots of new babies being born here...
    Here, everyone have a : on me

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