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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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Why is JO considered integral to our success

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  • Why is JO considered integral to our success

    In the Last 2 Seasons, 04-05 and 05-06.

    Our winning record with O'neal(41-38) .519
    Our winning record without O'neal (24-21)* .532
    Our winning record with O'neal between suspension and Injury(04-05) (16-16) .500

    * Counts the Games, where Artest and Jackson were also suspended.

    So we have better winning record Without O'neal. Wierd.

    And just to give you some perspective:

    Our winning record with Jackson(51-40) .560
    Our winning record without Jackson(14-19) .452

    So not only is Jackson our most healthy Player. But unlike JO, our winning % is lower when he doesn't play. AMAZING.

    Of course these standings ignore Playoffs, where they both had the same winning percentage, but one was healthy!

  • #2
    Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

    Blah.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

      [quote=Destined4Greatness]

      And just to give you some perspective:

      Our winning record with Jackson(51-40) .560
      Our winning record without Jackson(14-19) .452

      So not only is Jackson our most healthy Player. But unlike JO, our winning % is lower when he doesn't play. AMAZING.

      quote]

      A perfect example about why stats alone can be misleading.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

        And that is a perfect example that most Pacer fans have a hard on for JO

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

          Originally posted by Destined4Greatness
          And that is a perfect example that most Pacer fans have a hard on for JO
          Was that really appropriate?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

            Originally posted by Believe_in_blue
            Was that really appropriate?
            No but it was accurate.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

              The Pacers play better basketball without JO. I've been saying it for awhile now.

              I don't know how many times we have to see it before people start believing it... The only question I have is if it is the player or the system.

              That the stats would show it doesn't surprise me.

              I became a believer last season when I was told that when JO returned from suspension we'd be OK.... We weren't. In fact, our best stretch of the season came when we got a power forward (who played with power) and JO sitting on the bench injured. That should've been an eye-opener if the earlier part of the season wasn't already. The 55 point game means nothing. Blah.

              -Bball
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                Originally posted by Bball
                The Pacers play better basketball without JO. I've been saying it for awhile now.

                I don't know how many times we have to see it before people start believing it... The only question I have is if it is the player or the system.

                That the stats would show it doesn't surprise me.

                I became a believer last season when I was told that when JO returned from suspension we'd be OK.... We weren't. In fact, our best stretch of the season came when we got a power forward (who played with power) and JO sitting on the bench injured. That should've been an eye-opener if the earlier part of the season wasn't already. The 55 point game means nothing. Blah.

                -Bball
                I dunno. I like Jermaine so much off the court that maybe I have ignored how he really isn't integral to our on-court success. However, I think he might work really well with Peja. They won't be able to double team him anymore, quite simply. Especially if we learn to pass it around and make Peja the open man through clever screens if they ever double team. And if they don't, I don't think there are many big guys in this league that can stop J.O.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                  Number manipulation, nothing else, and no hte Pacers are not a better team without JO.
                  They do however play a different system with JO on the floor, one not particularly liked by the players, but according to some "the right system".

                  But hey, we all seem to love all our players so much, that if it was up to a number of poster on this board our starting 5 would be Saras,Fred, Danny, Cro and Harrisson with Foster and AJ coming of the bench.

                  I really wonder what would happen if you had a team of that exact quality for a month or so

                  The Laundry, as jay said, and some others, that's what counts, and I agree, but please with our best players on the court, and if the system and the players are not matching that well then we should change the system, that is cheaper and easier then the players.
                  So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                  If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                  Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                    Bogus stats...IMHO, it's about who you are playing at the time of the injuries. Heck, if we are playing a lot of eastern confrence schleps at the time of O'neal being out, well it is easy to see how our record could be a little better then if we played power house teams while J.O's in the line-up.

                    Granted, I like the brand of basketball the team plays in J.O.s absence, but I'm not ready to go out on that limb with Bball saying the team is better off without O'neal in the lineup.
                    ...Still "flying casual"
                    @roaminggnome74

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                      After thinking this over for the last couple of days, I personally have decided this is one of the mysteries of life.

                      Whenever he is out the team plays together better . It probably has alot to do with that huge contract he signed because I can't see any other reason for him playing the lead role on this team. He is a good player when healthy but he should be a complimentary player but not the number one option.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                        well let's only take this year for JO and see what the real statisticians have to say in On/Off court stats (82games.com) Shows somewhat of a different picture.
                        Code:
                        Jermaine O'Neal Indiana Pacers 2005-2006 NBA Season

                        On Court / Off Court stats Many stats are shown on a 'per 48 minute' basis
                        Stat
                        ON Court
                        OFF Court
                        Net
                        Minutes
                        1247
                        765
                        61%
                        Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.
                        105.4
                        102.6
                        +2.8
                        Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
                        103.4
                        102.6
                        +0.8
                        Net Points per 100 Possessions
                        +2.0
                        +0.0
                        +2.0
                        Points Scored
                        2450
                        1458
                        +992
                        Points Allowed
                        2389
                        1461
                        +928
                        Net Points
                        +61
                        -3
                        +64
                        Effective FG%
                        49.3%
                        48.6%
                        +0.7%
                        Effective FG% Allowed
                        46.4%
                        46.0%
                        +0.3%
                        Assisted Field Goals
                        56%
                        54%
                        +2%
                        Assisted FG% Allowed
                        53%
                        53%
                        +0%
                        Own Shots Blocked
                        6%
                        6%
                        +0%
                        Shots Blocked
                        6%
                        5%
                        +1%
                        Rebounding
                        Offensive Rebounding
                        26.9%
                        27.2%
                        -0.3%
                        Defensive Rebounding
                        69.9%
                        71.9%
                        -2.0%
                        Total Rebounding
                        48.4%
                        49.6%
                        -1.1%
                        Stats
                        Free Throws Made
                        20
                        19
                        +1
                        Free Throws Attempted
                        28
                        26
                        +2
                        Free Throws Made by Opp.
                        18
                        21
                        +3
                        Free Throws Attempted by Opp.
                        26
                        28
                        +2
                        Turnovers, on Offense
                        15
                        16
                        +1
                        Turnovers, on Defense
                        14
                        14
                        +0
                        Net Turnovers
                        -1
                        -2
                        -1
                        Fouls Committed
                        22
                        23
                        +1
                        Fouls, Drawn
                        23
                        21
                        +2
                        Net Fouls
                        1
                        -2
                        -3

                        So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                        If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                        Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                          Tinsley in 04-05:
                          Code:
                          Stat
                          ON Court
                          OFF Court
                          Net
                          Minutes
                          1298
                          2676
                          32%
                          Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.
                          108.8
                          104.9
                          +3.9
                          Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.
                          105.6
                          105.5
                          +0.1
                          Net Points per 100 Possessions
                          +3.2
                          -0.6
                          +3.9
                          Points Scored
                          2656
                          4975
                          -2319
                          Points Allowed
                          2555
                          5016
                          -2461
                          Net Points
                          +101
                          -41
                          +142
                          Effective FG%
                          50.1%
                          46.4%
                          +3.7%
                          Effective FG% Allowed
                          47.3%
                          47.1%
                          +0.1%
                          Assisted Field Goals
                          56%
                          55%
                          +1%
                          Assisted FG% Allowed
                          58%
                          54%
                          +4%
                          Own Shots Blocked
                          6%
                          6%
                          +0%
                          Shots Blocked
                          6%
                          5%
                          +1%
                          Rebounding
                          Offensive Rebounding
                          29.2%
                          28.0%
                          +1.2%
                          Defensive Rebounding
                          70.6%
                          69.4%
                          +1.2%
                          Total Rebounding
                          49.9%
                          48.7%
                          +1.2%
                          Stats
                          Free Throws Made
                          20
                          21
                          -1
                          Free Throws Attempted
                          26
                          26
                          +0
                          Free Throws Made by Opp.
                          21
                          18
                          -3
                          Free Throws Attempted by Opp.
                          28
                          25
                          -3
                          Turnovers, on Offense
                          15
                          13
                          -2
                          Turnovers, on Defense
                          14
                          13
                          +1
                          Net Turnovers
                          -1
                          0
                          +1
                          Fouls Committed
                          23
                          22
                          -1
                          Fouls, Drawn
                          22
                          22
                          +0
                          Net Fouls
                          -1
                          0
                          +1

                          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                            I thought anyone with half a brain was well aware that Jermaine is soooo overrated. We will go nowhere with him being our number one option. I got high hopes that the Pacers will have a real good team when JO's contract is up.
                            *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why is JO considered integral to our success

                              Having a player who can rebound well, be a threat to alter shots, hit mid-range jumpers, score in the post, and draw double teams should not be a detriment to winning. If it is it is the fault of the coaches.
                              "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                              "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                              Comment

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