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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

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  • #1

    Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

    Interesting but a little depressing. Although some of the basketball stuff in here I find a little inaccurate. And the TV ratings they site are only Fox Sports Midwest, I wonder if WB4 is off as much.

    And it is not a fair or good comparison to compare the whole 41 games home attendence vs the first 18 games. Everyone with half a brain knows attendance really picks up in January. Pacers have had two straight sell outs. Lakers will get a decent Wednesday night crowd, and the Pistons game will sell out. So what they need to do is compare the first 18 homes games last season with this season, and if they did I'd bet the decrease is a maybe 400 per game not the 1000 they suggest. And another thing most tickets are sold before the first regular season game is played, so the year before is a better barometer of attendance than how the team is currently playing. Keep in mind they only count tickets sold not butts in the seats.

    http://www.ibj.com/html/story013006_2.html



    Not much to cheer about
    Setbacks on and off court sink attendance, ratings


    By Anthony Schoettle
    IBJ Reporter

    Can Peja Stojakovic lift Pacers out of their funk?
    Click here to join IBJ's disussion forum.

    At this season's midpoint, the Indiana Pacers are losing one of their best players--Ron Artest--games in multiples, and perhaps most important, the fan support that propped the franchise up amid difficulties last year.

    The Pacers' hopes to salvage this season now largely rest on a trade that finally sent Artest packing and brought two-time NBA all-star Peja Stojakovic in from Sacramento.

    Heading toward the all-star break, though, there remain more questions for the Pacers than answers. Attendance has dropped to an eight-year low, TV ratings are in a double-digit-percentage decline, and season-ticket holders are cashing out.

    "I gave up my season tickets, and I don't regret it for one minute," said Bob Birge, president of locally based Law Firm Marketing Network. "The games just aren't very entertaining."

    Birge, who paid about $100 each for four lower-level tickets, said he began having trouble in the last three years getting clients and business associates interested in attending games.

    "It was expensive, and it simply wasn't worth it anymore," Birge said. "I think the problem is bigger than the Pacers and Ron Artest; it's the whole NBA. But it sure is being reflected here."

    Ernie Reno, president of Avatar Communications, a locally based marketing and public relations firm, called the Pacers' lackluster on-court effort "insulting to fans."

    "It's not just the money," Reno said. "People's time is very valuable."

    Average attendance has dropped from 16,995 last year to 16,052 this year through 18 home games. Attendance was below 16,000 per game--lower than any season ending average since 1998--until a Jan. 21 home sellout against Chicago boosted the total. Still, the Pacers have only three sellouts this year, and little chance of matching last year's 15 sellouts without a dramatic on-court turnaround, sports marketers said.

    An attendance drop of 1,000 per game, sports business experts said, can equate to a loss of more than $1.5 million in ticket revenue alone. With the NBA's third-highest player payroll at $79.3 million this year, the loss could push the Pacers' basketball operations into the red, said University of Notre Dame sports economist Richard Sheehan.

    Ticket sales and television revenue are the biggest sources of income for NBA teams, but they're also key indicators of just about every other revenue stream.

    "When attendance and TV ratings drop, a lot of ancillary dollars also drop off," said David Carter, principal of Sports Business Group, a Los Angeles-based sports business consultancy. "Revenue from concessions, parking and merchandise sales will see a more immediate drop-off. If the team's decline is prolonged, demand for corporate suites, club seats and sponsorships drops off, and that can be very financially painful for a team."

    The 1999-2000 season, the first in Conseco Fieldhouse, when the Pacers sold out every home game and averaged 18,345 in attendance on the way to the NBA Finals, seems like a lifetime ago.

    Bad timing

    The recent downturn came just as the Pacers were turning the tide on a gradual three-year attendance slide.

    "This seems to be hitting the Pacers at exactly the wrong time," Carter said. "A year ago, the team was a rallying point for the community, and this year, well ... it's all gone wrong."

    Last season, attendance climbed about 4 percent despite a team that was wracked with injuries and suspension in the wake of the brawl in Detroit. Despite a season-long suspension for Artest, who started the brawl with Detroit fans, and multigame suspensions to other key players, Pacers fans continued to support the team on a number of levels.

    The night after the fight in Detroit, a near-sellout crowd at Conseco Fieldhouse vocally supported the Pacers, which dressed only six players and narrowly lost to the Orlando Magic.

    "Last year, [the Pacers] had record TV ratings," said Geoff Goldman, spokesman for Fox Sports Midwest. This year, the network has seen a 17-percent decline in the team's ratings as tracked by New York-based Nielsen Media Research.

    Sponsors voiced concerns to Pacers brass following the Detroit fight, but all stayed with the team.

    Pacers officials were unavailable for comment, but sports marketers said the team is at a critical crossroads.

    "If the Pacers were a hospital patient, I would put them in fair condition," Reno said. "But they could take a turn for the worse or a turn for the better any day."

    Some sports marketers said the Pacers need a marketing overhaul. Artest was one of four players used in a campaign taglined "Unite" at the beginning of this season. Artest has since been erased from the ad campaign and his bigger-than-life banner at Conseco Fieldhouse has been removed. But a marketing overhaul could cost well into six figures, marketers said.

    "Whatever they do has to be done in concert with what they do on the court," Reno said. "It's a time I think they need to be more aggressive in reaching out to the community on and off the court. Those 30-point losses don't help, and there's no amount of marketing that's going to fix that."

    With the retirement of 18-year veteran Reggie Miller, the Pacers are missing a big chunk of the personality this community embraced, said Milton Thompson, president of Grand Slam Cos., a locally based sports marketing consultancy. Others noted that this team doesn't have marketable personas like Miller, Rik Smits or Mark Jackson to rely on.

    "Most core fans are hanging in for now, but [the Pacers are] losing a lot of their casual fans, and that's hurting," Thompson said.

    Stojakovic has been criticized for his defensive skills and occasional disappearing act during big games, but he has been a solid NBA citizen, heavily embraced by Sacramento fans during his seven-plus-year stay there.

    "This community wants a team comprised of good players and good people," said Andrew "Buddy" Baker, president of IM Sports Services LLC, a locally based firm representing professional athletes. "I think there's a lot to be excited about with Peja Stojakovic."

    Eroding credibility

    Even when things went wrong in the past, the community still rallied around team owners Herb and Mel Simon and highly respected President Donnie Walsh.

    "He's still one of the most highly respected executives in the NBA, but Donnie Walsh's margin for error, I think with sponsors and especially fans, is probably shrinking," said Andrew Zimbalist, a professor at Smith College in Northampton, Mass., and a noted sports economist. "When Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere are two of your three highest-paid players, you have problems."

    While the decision to acquire Artest in the first place and not trade him this past off-season are Walsh's latest missteps, they're certainly not his only mistakes. Fat contracts for oft-injured, unproven Bender and for Croshere, an NBA role player, meant the Pacers couldn't retain other key players, including native Hoosier Brad Miller and recent crowd favorite Dale Davis. Some of Walsh's recent acquisitions are showing spotty results, including Sarunas Jasikevicius, who was touted as Reggie Miller's replacement.

    Then there's Larry Bird, Pacers president of basketball operations, who has been criticized for his unwavering support of Artest. The problem was compounded in October when Bird posed with Artest for a Sports Illustrated cover story titled "Stand by Your Man."

    "The only problem the Pacers front office thought they had coming into the season was they had too many quality players and not enough playing time," said a source close to the team. "The front office never saw this train wreck coming."

    Local residents long known for making this a Pacers town are more uncertain about the team's future than they have been in a decade, sports marketers said, despite the addition of Stojakovic, who becomes a free agent at season's end. The uncertainty will likely make it more difficult for the Pacers to win fans back.

    Baker expects cautious optimism from Hoosiers.

    "They've been through a lot, so they'll want to see how this whole thing works out," he said.

    Thompson said there's good reason for caution.

    "It's going to be a short honeymoon for Stojakovic and the Pacers," he said. "If this doesn't work out, I'll think you'll see the Pacers front office blow this whole team up."

    Colts cavalcade

    In addition to their own problems, Pacers officials have had to play this season largely in the shadow of the Indianapolis Colts, who spent the first 13 weeks of the NFL season chasing history.

    "In Los Angeles, the Angels and Dodgers have difficulty gaining traction with fans until the Lakers playoff run is over," Carter said. "The potential for conflict among major-league teams will be even more acute in a market the size of Indianapolis.

    "The two teams fight not only for ticket sales and sponsorships, but column inches in the newspaper and local TV and radio time. There's only so many resources on a number of levels."

    Though the Colts' new stadium doesn't open until 2008, it could affect decisions of corporations considering multiyear deals this coming off-season for suites or pricey club seats at Conseco Fieldhouse.

    It's difficult to say where the Pacers should go from here, but Reno has an idea for a start.

    "The Pacers need a coherent plan going forward," he said. "That will be a big step in winning over this community."
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

    "I gave up my season tickets, and I don't regret it for one minute," said Kegboy, president of locally based Kegboy Industries, LLC.
    Fixed.

    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

      Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

        Originally posted by Unclebuck
        Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.
        No kidding. This could be a 10-win team for all I care, and I'd still buy tickets for my trip to Indy every, single, time.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

          Buck and Rcarey are not the fans they are or should be as worried about but the casual fan. Lets face it, there are plenty of places for people to spend
          their entertainment dollar. So it is imperative that Donnie rights the ship.
          I can almost guarantee that 2 other players who's name I will not mention
          will be traded in the offseason if at all possible to continue the clean up
          process.


          owl
          {o,o}
          |)__)
          -"-"-

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

            Originally posted by Unclebuck
            Well, I'm not going anywhere, I'm not giving up my season tickets, I still love the Pacers and still love the NBA. I've been through a lot worse than this and I didn't run then, so I'm not abandoning the Pacers now.
            I'm not giving my season tix up either...it took me too long to get in a position to get them! Anyway, we all know most casual fans are very fickle, especially in this town!
            ...Still "flying casual"
            @roaminggnome74

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

              I wonder if all of the main characters from 11/19 will need to be removed from this team before the cloud is truly lifted?

              -Bball
              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

              ------

              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

              -John Wooden

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                The Pacers are full of players that hurt the team, (arguring calls and not getiing back, slow getting off the floor, etc.) fans don't like that, so this team isn't liked. And now since it's not winning, the casual fan doesn't want to watch it.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                  The fans at the game last night were really into it, they seemed to like what they saw. Paul B even pulled out some of his material from last season, about the team being shot handed and all.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                    To start, the Pacers have to get rid of their biggest perceived problems, Jackson and Tinsley. They should do this by the trade deadline. If that doesn't work they are going to have to do an overhaul and trade JO for a young stud.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                      Originally posted by Bball
                      I wonder if all of the main characters from 11/19 will need to be removed from this team before the cloud is truly lifted?

                      -Bball
                      Yes.

                      It's sad, but that's just the way it is. And even after that, we won't truly be able to avoid it sometimes.

                      It's the same with any memorable moment good or bad. The Pacers franchise is stuck with it and will be for a very long time.
                      “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                      “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                        The marketing aspect of the Pacers has been atrocious of late. In fact there hasn't been a good campaign since Fred Hoiberg rode with his head out the window and Chris Mullin was hitch hiking to town. Of course nothing will ever top Dale Davis alternating between telling Boomer he loved him and threatening fans because he knows where we live.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                          No one has come right and said this, but do you think that the brawl in and of itself 11/19 is hurting the Pacers popularity in Indianapolis. I really don't. 30 point blowouts hurt fan interest more than anything

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                            I won't let go of my season tickets, but I just hate the fact that Conseco Box office and whoever handles our ticket sales hold tickets til the actual game is nearing. I tried to order extra tickets for the Lakers game 2 months ago at the lower level and they said it was sold out in the lowers. I tried again yesterday and they had seats at section 1. This has happened to me more than a few times. I understand the concept they're trying to save the good seats for packages and groups etc. but it's just BULL**** to lie to loyal consumers and especially with the decline in attendance, why the heck do they hold out on local buyers for?
                            http://Twitter.com/dRealSource

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Pacers losing their popularity, interesting article

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck
                              No one has come right and said this, but do you think that the brawl in and of itself 11/19 is hurting the Pacers popularity in Indianapolis. I really don't. 30 point blowouts hurt fan interest more than anything

                              injuries, ron artest drama, stephen jackson among others.
                              http://Twitter.com/dRealSource

                              Comment

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