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Thread: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    The first half of the game reminded me of the statue of Jimmy Carter from the Simpsons.

    On the bottom was inscribed "Malaise forever" & that pretty much sums up the first half from our standpoint.

    The team was flat & the fans were flat.

    It was so bad in the first half that Jeff Foster ran into the stands & took the pom poms away from the girl in section 2 & tried to rally the team. Ok he didn't do that but he might as well have. He was trying everything on the floor to get the team going. He was clapping, he was talking he was doing everything but a salsa dance to get the team fired up & it wasn't happening.

    I don't know if it was because of such a small crowd (smallest non-weather related crowd I've seen in a long while) or if it was because it was a depleted Bobcats team or if it was just Wednesday but it looked like dawn of the dead out there on the court & Austin Croshere was the lead zombie.

    Was Isiah Thomas in the building? Did Austin hear he was about to be traded with Ron to Toronto? Did the insurance run out on the monoxidil?

    Whatever the reason Austin could have done everyone the favor & just called in sick for the night, at least in the first half. I can think of at least two time he rose in the air & could not decide to shoot or pass so he ends up throwing it away both times.

    He even missed 3 freethrows. Something is terribley wrong when he misses 3 freethrows in a game. He even got a Bobcat p!ssed at him. I had turned my head for a second so I have no idea what occured but when I look up I see Refs. running in-between Austin & some Bobcat (I don't know who)

    I haven't seen him play this disorganized since Zeke was here.

    Danny Granger had two great blocked shots. No, really they were eyepopping good blocked shots. But that was it. He offered nothing much else all night long either. Maybe he & Austin had the same food & they were suffering from food poisoning?

    Actually the fact that we won this game is a miracle considering we didn't have one player above 6'8" tall play very well for very long.

    I mean David had a few good min. in the second half & Jeff had a few good min. spread about, Austin did finally get going a little in the second half but that was it.

    Jackson was a in a mood all night long for some reason. He & David Harrison got into a verbal spat over a missed pass & then there were a couple of times that Jax stayed back to argue with the refs. while the Bobcats ran the other way.

    Thank God for Anthony Johnson. Even the biggest A.J. haters on here have to admit that he saved our bacon in this game. He had a double double & it was from rebounds not assists.

    I've come to one conclusion though after watching this game. Rick Carlisle does not have a lot of faith in Saras. In fact Saras almost came out of the game with about 5 min. left to go & Harrison was coming in but Rick pulled him back at the last min. I thought it might have something to do with the fact that Saras was litterally haning his head as he was leaving but then again I don't know that. I don't know what made him change his mind after Saras was already walking to the bench.

    But either way whenever Saras was in last night Rick pretty much kept the ball out of his hands. Even Ed Gill was brought in with Saras for awhile & he had control of the ball the entire time.

    I will watch this more closely as time goes on to see if there is anything to this or if it was just a one night anomoly.

    Primoz was just picking David apart from 15' out tonight. David would never get up on him so Primoz would just let it rip on him. Foster had to come in to stop this but then Primoz just started to take him down low & draw fouls.

    Finally in the second half when David wasn't afraid of fouling out he went out & guarded Primoz on the perimater & Primoz tried once to take David on the block. It didn't work so he didn't go back.

    I'm not sure if Rick went small out of necessity or habbit. David could have played in the 4th quarter more than he did. Yes I know he would have had some trouble with their quickness but he did a very good job of not fouling in the game & they had nobody who could stop him on the offensive end. In fact I have no idea why we didn't try some post moves with David in the second half more than we did. Whenever they got it to him it was off of a drive & dish. It worked a couple of times but he bobbled it a couple of times as well.

    Oh well at least he is playing & he is getting better. This is all that I've ever wanted Rick to do was to give him his shot & Rick is doing it.

    No Jamaal, no J.O., no Ron, No Bender (laugh if you want but he is still being paid huge mega bucks) & no Pollard & this team is still competative.

    Walsh Warriors should be proud of that because few teams could lose that many players & still win any games let alone float around the .500% mark.

    I can tell you one thing though for fact. That fieldhouse was dead & unfortunately I think the fans have started to write off the season.

    That's a shame but I can sort of understand because just like the Colts, many Pacers fans were proclaiming this to be the year. It never was, but that didn't stop a lot of people from saying it was.

    I am not advocating this at all because I agree with Walsh on the fact that the team should get the best deal possible but I think the fan base needs a shot of adrenaline right now & I'm not sure that Al Harrington isn't exatly what the fieldhouse needs to feel good again.

    I'm not saying that this is what is right for the team (I don't know if it is or isn't) but I know Al was never hated in the fieldhouse as bad as he was online (ironic since I always felt that Ron was never loved as much in the fieldhouse as he is online either)

    I know that Atlanta doesn't want any part of Ron & I can't blame them but maybe it is time to explore that three way with Denver again.

    I just know that there is now a huge disconnect between the fans & this team.

    It could be because it was Wednesday, the Colts loss could have had an impact, it could be no J.O. or it could even be it was the Bobcats but something was wrong in that place.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #2
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I've come to one conclusion though after watching this game. Rick Carlisle does not have a lot of faith in Saras. In fact Saras almost came out of the game with about 5 min. left to go & Harrison was coming in but Rick pulled him back at the last min. I thought it might have something to do with the fact that Saras was litterally haning his head as he was leaving but then again I don't know that. I don't know what made him change his mind after Saras was already walking to the bench.

    But either way whenever Saras was in last night Rick pretty much kept the ball out of his hands. Even Ed Gill was brought in with Saras for awhile & he had control of the ball the entire time.
    Its' a result of last game turnovers. He is sure now that Saras cant handle the ball.

  3. #3
    Kestas
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    Its' a result of last game turnovers. He is sure now that Saras cant handle the ball.
    I don't get your point sometimes. was that sarcasm?

    anyways, a win is a win.

    sorry if I sound uninformed, but when are J.O. and Tinsley coming back?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Did you leave after the first half, Peck? Austin was good in the second half - so what that he missed a few free throws.

    Harrison and Foster continue to play well - there is hope at the center position. If by some magic a healthy Jamaal Tinsley returns, maybe this team has a chance to make some noise in the playoffs after all.

    I only saw the game on TV, but the crowd in the lower level did look sadly unenthusiastic. In that third quarter, Steve Jackson's whining and failure to get back on defense was totally unacceptable.

    I haven't been an AJ fan, but he was a monster in the second half last night - the Bobcats need to trade one of their pint sized, quick point guards and add a taller guy like AJ.

    Sarunas was on fire in the second quarter! Since the coaching staff obviously prefers Anthony to AJ, Saras should be traded to a team that can use his talents better than we do. He needs to play for a team that can take advantage of his talents off the break more. We need to subtract one of our current point guards and add one who can actually guard someone on the ball.

    Wth all the injuries and only the twin midgets at point, the Bobcats were way too small to compete in the NBA last night.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    But either way whenever Saras was in last night Rick pretty much kept the ball out of his hands. Even Ed Gill was brought in with Saras for awhile & he had control of the ball the entire time.
    I haven't seen the game, but if this is true then it's sad more than anything...

    I think if this goes on - Larry Bird will have to step in and decide if he has brought the right player, or does he have the right coach.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFII
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    I haven't seen the game, but if this is true then it's sad more than anything...

    I think if this goes on - Larry Bird will have to step in and decide if he has brought the right player, or does he have the right coach.
    I noticed the same thing last night. AJ would not pass the ball to Saras in the second half at all. AJ had it going last night but it looked for a while like Jamal and JO were playing together again. Pass down low and shoot or drive and shoot.

    Austin was not focusing at all. Maybe he's going to be traded.

    I thought to myself Sarunas should be traded to a team he can perform on.
    Carlisle is wasting him.

    I'm very disappointed in our team from DW, LB, Rick right down to the water boy. Not really the water boy but man I am steamed.

    It's hard for those of us who live viscariously through the achievments pf others to deal with failure on both fronts.

  7. #7
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    There is a simple reason why Rick does not trust Saras, the same reason tht even Slick, a fierce fan early on, is going "off" Saras: It is called "defense" and "ballcontrol" or as Slick said it: "He's simpy not capable of defending on NBA level"
    Now "bad defense" can be masked, but not closing in on your guy if he's ready to take a shot is not something coaches take lightly, add to that the turnovers of his dribble like against NJ where he lost the ball 3 times in a row on a drive and the scenario is set.
    We can debate about what he can and can not do, but (and I've been silent long enough) I am prettty sure that what Jay calls his "bossiness" is not sitting that well either, there is something about the proof is in the pudding out there that he might think of, play first, talk later.

    Of course that is something Jax should start realizing as well, because I am sure that once we have enough players on the floor and even last night had Granger had abetter night, we would see a LOT less of him.

    David is indeed slowly getting "there", and I say before the season is out, Jay will be right once again, (and Peck of course) he will be ready come playoffs, let's just hope that his own comments
    Quote Originally Posted by David Harrisson
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    As far as me, I think I am beginning to find what my role is and as this happens I will be more aggressive and really know what role that I will be playing on this team. There is no comparison with every day playing and getting a lot of time to prepare yourself to play in the NBA.
    about the difference between not playing and playing does indeed make the case.

    Well we won, we beat the Bobcats, a team that gives us grieve with speed, as it does other teams and because we have a coach who likes to "match"

    Imo if Brezec goes out 15 feet, someone else should take him over, let David patrole the paint and forget getting up to a C who plays on the outskirts, just take him on on offense and demoralize him that way, or have someon force him inside where David is waiting, then see if he still wants to score on the next possession.

    Thanks Peck, as usual great insight
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    (Obligatory Saras apologist reporting for duty, sir)

    When we had an intact team, one with or w/o RA, we were complimenting Saras on how rapidly he was improving on defense. We don't have a whole team and thus Saras' weaknesses are emphasized. Let's be honest, everyones weaknesses are exposed...how would Reggies defense fair with this supporting cast? Especially the one that showed up last night. Ballhandling? So much easier if your teamates are moving without the ball rather than standing around exposing the passing lanes. Saras was quoted in the Star this morning as saying he really likes how the Bobcats play. HE likes their team ball approach to the game. (go look it up for yourself, I'm just as lazy as you are)

    As for AJ, great game SCORING the ball. By shooting more it takes away from those opportunities to turn the ball over. Fewer passes=fewer TO's. That's what my mom called a back-handed compliment. But I'll give AJ credit he played a good game.

    Has Jackson put two good games together back-to-back? Seems he has a dandy and then a stinker.

    Cro's getting traded with Ron...who, where? What are we getting back? (j/k)
    I think the Colt loss has people somewhat turned-off right now. I think a major trade is needed to re-awaken people and give them a reason to go root for a team. We just suffered a major disappointment with the Colts, why go watch a team that could very easily let us down too (omnisciently speaking). Besides, all those lower level people prolly went to Aruba for a week to lick their wounds and restore their pride.

    Granger's a rookie, he is forgiven. So is Harrison, he may as well be a rookie.
    Jeff got the short end of the whistle last night. He couldn't get any continuity to his game for the whistles being blown.

    Question: What was our scoring and points allowed averages before the injuries compared to post injuries? What was our winning % pre and post?
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    There is a simple reason why Rick does not trust Saras, the same reason tht even Slick, a fierce fan early on, is going "off" Saras: It is called "defense" and "ballcontrol" or as Slick said it: "He's simpy not capable of defending on NBA level"
    Now "bad defense" can be masked, but not closing in on your guy if he's ready to take a shot is not something coaches take lightly...
    Why in this case Saras was on the floor as many minutes if he was as horrible on defence and his offensive advantages were denied by coach and the coach doesn't trust him?
    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

  10. #10

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Personally, I think Austin, Sarunas, Freddie and Foster (not so much though) should, under these current circumstances, be traded to teams either closer to their homes or their talent levels. They deserve much better situations, respectively, than what they are getting here playing for the Pacers.

    Austin should go to the Lakers with Ron and have a legitimate shot at a title. Sarunas should go where he can play his game with other likeminded, unselfish team players and Fred should go to Portland where he can really be appreciated. Let Jeff go to the Spurs to play with Duncan.

    The Pacers should get Steve Francis, Marbury and Kobe to replace these guys and we could field the NBA All Selfish team.




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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife
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    Personally, I think Austin, Sarunas, Freddie and Foster (not so much though) should, under these current circumstances, be traded to teams either closer to their homes or their talent levels. They diserve much better situations, respectively, than what they are getting here playing for the Pacers.

    Austin should go to the Lakers with Ron and have a legitimate shot at a title. Sarunas should go where he can play his game with other likeminded, unselfish team players and Fred should go to Portland where he can really be appreciated. Let Jeff go to the Spurs to play with Duncan.

    The Pacers should get Steve Francis, Marbury and Kobe to replace these guys and we could field the NBA All Selfish team.




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    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    There is a side of me that agrees with everyting you say, but the rational side says that we can right this ship.
    And there is a side of me that says Austin should thank his lucky stars for making the type of money for the production he puts out.
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    I guess this is turning into a thread about Saras. He played very litle in the second half, when he did come in late in the 3rd quarter he got two fouls, and went out, and he was disgusted and voiced some of that displeasure after the game. I think I saw it on the Pacers post game show, but he said something to the effect, if I get a chance to play. I interpreted his comments to mean he thinks he should be playing more.

    One thing that Saras simply cannot do is beat anyone off the dribble. He sometimes gets into the lane but that is either in pick and roll situations or when he plays off his teammates. Saras is not the type of point guard who you can just give the ball to and say run the team, he cannot get to any spot on the floor.

    Our starter is always injured.

    Last night whenever AJ went out the team fell apart. He is an adult first of all, and is a very smart player.

    The point guard position, is a mess right now.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    To me Ron was never the big problem with this team until he walked front and center. I think Tinsley and Jackson should also be traded.

    Oh what the heck! Figuring things out with this team is hard. Bird admitted he was confused why this team doesn't play better. Really I'm ready for a major overhaul! For whatever reason people just don't like this team.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    The point guard position, is a mess right now.
    Yeah, people better not get too excited about the backcourt offense last night. Aside from Gerald Wallace, Primoz, and Brevin Knight that was a pretty awful collection of end-of-the-bench talent that Charlotte put out there.

    Gerald Wallace is improving termendously though. Too bad his range is about 15 feet. He can slash to the basket at will.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    On second thought I think it's the backcourt that's the trouble. Up front we have JO, Harrison, Granger, Foster, and Croshere. We need another big guy for Pollard and a nother small forward.

    The backcourt? Keep either AJ or Saras, trade the rest. Well . . . Gill's okay too for as little as he plays.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife
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    I noticed the same thing last night. AJ would not pass the ball to Saras in the second half at all.
    Liar. I saw AJ pass the ball to Saras once.

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Liar. I saw AJ pass the ball to Saras once.
    AJ wasn't doing too much passing to anyone, really. And the next time AJ gives it up on a play at the end of a quarter, it will be the first. Worked out, though because AJ was as good last night as he was poor against Washington Friday and the Bobcats were just too small to do anything about it. Kudos to AJ for taking advantage.

    My only real problem was not getting David more involved in the second half. Despite my exhortations from way up high, I don't think they gave him the ball once when Jumaine Jones was trying to lean on him in the post. I also thought he should've played down the stretch to help discourage the layup line the Bobcats were having. He was at the scorer's table, as Peck said, but never made it in. There wasn't a stoppage in play and I assume it got to the point where Rick decided to leave his better FT shooters in.

    I guess my biggest problem of the entire night, though, was the halftime entertainment. Boomer and the Power Pack? I know it's the Bobcats on a Wednesday night, but still.............
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    I think the combo of the Colts loss and playing the Bobcats had a lot to do with the crowd. I read that they were giving two tickets to last nights game in exchange for a used coat. Now I know it was a coat drive and thats a good thing but the Pacers would not have done the tickets for coats on a night we play the Suns or the Lakers. So clearly they were expecting the small crowd.

    Rick wont give anyone the kind of room to work at the pg spot he gived AJ. I have seen AJ throw the ball away far more often than Sarunas has so far yet AJ always got another chance. I have not been impressed with Sarunas the last couple of games but it seems to me that Rick is treating him like Isiah treated Cro, and Rick had treated Tinsley. So maybe he is getting worse because the coach has no faith in him whatsoever.


    Oh Peck I could be wrong but is your avatar from

  20. #20

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Liar. I saw AJ pass the ball to Saras once.
    Well yeah, maybe but was it in the second half?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    I guess my biggest problem of the entire night, though, was the halftime entertainment. Boomer and the Power Pack? I know it's the Bobcats on a Wednesday night, but still.............
    Someone must have canceled; Can't believe the P's are in that much of a cost cutting mode. Low blow to loyal fans, although that one taller dude with the max hops always amazes me.

  22. #22
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    The main thing that I noticed was we still began to get desperate too early and try to rely on long outside shooting.

    There were two reasons that strategy seemed to work at least part of the time last night:

    1) The Pacers had established at least some kind of inside threat early, though that seemed to stagnate in the second half, and

    2) There were rebounders in place to give us second chances (which I almost completely credit for our comeback).

    When the Bobcats threatened in the 4th, we suddenly started launching from the outside and taking iso plays again - which led to the scoring drought and could have killed us if the Bobcats hadn't been turning the ball over.

    Had we not started to get into the middle and catch some foul calls we would likely not have held on.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Someone must have canceled; Can't believe the P's are in that much of a cost cutting mode. Low blow to loyal fans, although that one taller dude with the max hops always amazes me.
    Anyone remember when the Ps had to have concerts after the game to get people to come? Fan 1 "Wow this team is really bad". Fan 2 "Who cares the Beach Boys are next".

    Yeah, I really heard it.
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  24. #24
    Chest Rockwell
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Does anyone else believe that Sarunas might just be a spot up shooter/part timer a la Steve Kerr?

  25. #25
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the latest Bobcats game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Oh Peck I could be wrong but is your avatar from
    Yip.


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