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Thread: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

  1. #51
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestas
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    that may be so, but what better options are there in NBA?
    besides, I thik Saras should adjust to Carlisle's style. however, in case of some serious failures by the team (which is not the case yet), the coach should go, not Saras
    I think I should agree with Jerry. However it appears that its not as easy to change teams as it is in Europe... And since Saras is not Artest we will wait at least till the end of the season. However, I would prefer to see him in Cleveland right now.

    What bugs me the most, is that coach prefers AJ over Saras!!! You can agree that Tinsley is a good player and that he is on Saras level, though they are completely different so its hard to compare them. But AJ?!?! Common, half of the board here was laughing at AJ a month ago. And still coach prefers him.

    I think its mostly due to Saras's poor dribbling and may be he is still poor defender. The one thing Rick dont understand is that when you drive limousine its hard to maneuver and park. You have to MAXIMIZE HIS POTENTIAL. Help him with defence. Let him defend weakest player. Let SG or SF to bring the ball. GIVE THE BALL TO SARAS IN OFFENCE!!! LET HIM PLAY 38 MINUTES. GIVE HIM SPACE FOR ERRORS. If you do that you'll see totally different game.

    You have to remember that basketball game is not about dunking or good dribling. Celtics with Bird didn't dribble at all on fast breaks. Pass is much faster then dribling. Basketball (offence) is about two simple things:
    1. Shooting the ball, which Saras does best on Pacers team.
    2. Creating shot opportunities, Saras excels in creating opportunities for others. He is best on Pacers team at this point, you saw his passes.
    Now what the dribbling has to do with it? Don't you have players that can do it instead of him? But do you have players that can shoot like him? Pass like him? Drive the team like him? plus emotion leadership etc....

    You should know that all his problems are not because he plays in NBA. I wrote on this board like 2 moths ago before games started, that somebody else brought the ball and helped him to defend in Maccabi. He was not athletic, poor defence and dribbling point guard in Europe. And still the BEST. As Bird did at his time.

    So right now I think you are having Larry Bird in point guard version on this team and not using him (See NPFII avatar).

    SHAME ON PACERS. SHAME ON RICK CARLISLE.....

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    I'd be fairly neutral on Sara if he were a normal rookie.

    When the team needed him to step up and play SG, he failed.

    He's having the usual rookie adjustments at a difficult position.

    I prefer AJ at backup SG, because he's a lousy PG, but its hard to argue with Rick's decision to stick with the guy with a longer track record in the NBA.

    Saras occasionally makes plays, and makes shots, like any rookie. He's maddeningly inconsistent, like any rookie not named Granger.

    Like I said, I could be neutral on him. I didn't care for his early season displays of "bossy-ness" on the court. Especially since he kept forgetting about Kyle Korver in the corner, as an easy example. But I could be neutral.

    But all this hype...

    I say we get rid of all our PGs. Tinsley because he's fragile. AJ because he sucks as a PG and Fred is finally proving to be a better backup SG than AJ. Saras can go away because I'm sick of reading about how the Pacers/ Rick should change just to make him look better.

    Good riddance to all of them, in my opinion.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
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    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  3. #53
    Kestas
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    What bugs me the most, is that coach prefers AJ over Saras!!!
    I don't think that's the case, but that's just imho. don't forget Saras is still a rookie and he's still a European in NBA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    LET HIM PLAY 38 MINUTES.
    well, he plays enough imho, you can't give all that so soon, coz that would put his reputation in danger. and the use for the team would be questionable, it would be too risky. obviously, I believe he can produce right away, but the general NBA public in USA clearly would not agree with my view. that automatically puts him under the magnifying glass. in such a situation starting position would mean every bleak performance of his would be magnified by the public. he must reach the status when not only the coach and teammates trust him fully, but the public does that as well. interestingly enough, his latest strange absences from the game in the last quarters (when he gets replaced by somebody "more trustworthy") are good for him in that respect rather than vice versa. his reputation is rising. imho.

    besides, not many rookies get so many minutes so soon. look at Macijauskas. the guy is phenomenal, but hardly plays at all.

    regarding his move to Cleveland.. I don't like it coz I still am under the impression that Indiana has the better chance to win the title sometime soon. it's a pitty they are not that good right now, but I still believe they are capable of drastic improvement.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I'd be fairly neutral on Sara if he were a normal rookie.

    When the team needed him to step up and play SG, he failed.

    He's having the usual rookie adjustments at a difficult position.

    I prefer AJ at backup SG, because he's a lousy PG, but its hard to argue with Rick's decision to stick with the guy with a longer track record in the NBA.

    Saras occasionally makes plays, and makes shots, like any rookie. He's maddeningly inconsistent, like any rookie not named Granger.

    Like I said, I could be neutral on him. I didn't care for his early season displays of "bossy-ness" on the court. Especially since he kept forgetting about Kyle Korver in the corner, as an easy example. But I could be neutral.

    But all this hype...

    I say we get rid of all our PGs. Tinsley because he's fragile. AJ because he sucks as a PG and Fred is finally proving to be a better backup SG than AJ. Saras can go away because I'm sick of reading about how the Pacers/ Rick should change just to make him look better.

    Good riddance to all of them, in my opinion.


    I need a humongous "ditto" smiley for times like these. Couldn't have said it better.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    I think I should agree with Jerry. However it appears that its not as easy to change teams as it is in Europe... And since Saras is not Artest we will wait at least till the end of the season. However, I would prefer to see him in Cleveland right now.

    What bugs me the most, is that coach prefers AJ over Saras!!! You can agree that Tinsley is a good player and that he is on Saras level, though they are completely different so its hard to compare them. But AJ?!?! Common, half of the board here was laughing at AJ a month ago. And still coach prefers him.

    I think its mostly due to Saras's poor dribbling and may be he is still poor defender. The one thing Rick dont understand is that when you drive limousine its hard to maneuver and park. You have to MAXIMIZE HIS POTENTIAL. Help him with defence. Let him defend weakest player. Let SG or SF to bring the ball. GIVE THE BALL TO SARAS IN OFFENCE!!! LET HIM PLAY 38 MINUTES. GIVE HIM SPACE FOR ERRORS. If you do that you'll see totally different game.

    You have to remember that basketball game is not about dunking or good dribling. Celtics with Bird didn't dribble at all on fast breaks. Pass is much faster then dribling. Basketball (offence) is about two simple things:
    1. Shooting the ball, which Saras does best on Pacers team.
    2. Creating shot opportunities, Saras excels in creating opportunities for others. He is best on Pacers team at this point, you saw his passes.
    Now what the dribbling has to do with it? Don't you have players that can do it instead of him? But do you have players that can shoot like him? Pass like him? Drive the team like him? plus emotion leadership etc....

    You should know that all his problems are not because he plays in NBA. I wrote on this board like 2 moths ago before games started, that somebody else brought the ball and helped him to defend in Maccabi. He was not athletic, poor defence and dribbling point guard in Europe. And still the BEST. As Bird did at his time.

    So right now I think you are having Larry Bird in point guard version on this team and not using him (See NPFII avatar).

    SHAME ON PACERS. SHAME ON RICK CARLISLE.....
    I concur....
    But an hour or so later, Hibbert wrote on his Twitter account: "Love this coach [and] I love this team. We can go far this year if we play like that. 2night we played our hearts out. Just didn't get the win."

  6. #56
    jericho
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I say we get rid of all our PGs. Tinsley because he's fragile. AJ because he sucks as a PG and Fred is finally proving to be a better backup SG than AJ. Saras can go away because I'm sick of reading about how the Pacers/ Rick should change just to make him look better.

    Good riddance to all of them, in my opinion.
    Yeah, you better do...., and keep dreaming about championship team

  7. #57
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife
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    I concur....
    you what?

  8. #58
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    I think I should agree with Jerry. However it appears that its not as easy to change teams as it is in Europe... And since Saras is not Artest we will wait at least till the end of the season. However, I would prefer to see him in Cleveland right now.

    What bugs me the most, is that coach prefers AJ over Saras!!! You can agree that Tinsley is a good player and that he is on Saras level, though they are completely different so its hard to compare them. But AJ?!?! Common, half of the board here was laughing at AJ a month ago. And still coach prefers him.

    I think its mostly due to Saras's poor dribbling and may be he is still poor defender. The one thing Rick dont understand is that when you drive limousine its hard to maneuver and park. You have to MAXIMIZE HIS POTENTIAL. Help him with defence. Let him defend weakest player. Let SG or SF to bring the ball. GIVE THE BALL TO SARAS IN OFFENCE!!! LET HIM PLAY 38 MINUTES. GIVE HIM SPACE FOR ERRORS. If you do that you'll see totally different game.

    You have to remember that basketball game is not about dunking or good dribling. Celtics with Bird didn't dribble at all on fast breaks. Pass is much faster then dribling. Basketball (offence) is about two simple things:
    1. Shooting the ball, which Saras does best on Pacers team.
    2. Creating shot opportunities, Saras excels in creating opportunities for others. He is best on Pacers team at this point, you saw his passes.
    Now what the dribbling has to do with it? Don't you have players that can do it instead of him? But do you have players that can shoot like him? Pass like him? Drive the team like him? plus emotion leadership etc....

    You should know that all his problems are not because he plays in NBA. I wrote on this board like 2 moths ago before games started, that somebody else brought the ball and helped him to defend in Maccabi. He was not athletic, poor defence and dribbling point guard in Europe. And still the BEST. As Bird did at his time.

    So right now I think you are having Larry Bird in point guard version on this team and not using him (See NPFII avatar).

    SHAME ON PACERS. SHAME ON RICK CARLISLE.....
    He can't do the same things because the talent is so much better. He's not quick enough to guard people in this league.
    That's not to say the GAME itself is better, the one on one and other BS that 'rules' the NBA sickens me and anyone that grew up on TEAM basketball.
    But the fact remains that these are the BEST athletes in the world. ANd to expect him to do the same things against them is silly.
    He's an AVERAGE player in this league. He'll never be a star.
    Shame on yourself.

  9. #59
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestas
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    bu who can stay healthy? is there such a man at all in the whole wide world?




    Saras has outplayed Parker every time they faced each other in the international competition. Parker won two NBA titles, while Saras won Olympic bronze, Eurobasket and three Euroleagues. he has been sellected as the second best non-USA basketball player in the world for two years in a row (this year and last year). his ball handling skills are second to none.
    sure, if you believe he's worse than some practically unknown outside the NBA Tinsley or Parker, that opinion will probably remain the same, but in any case you should know that majority of International fans would not support your position.

    if Saras doesn't become a star in NBA, that will mean that the divide between the styles played in Europe and NBA has become too wide. it will not be because of him being worse than Parker or Tinsley (pleaaaaase..). however, I the divide is not that big (though it's clearly noticable in terms of style and individualism). I would bet for Saras starting next season, but that's just a subjective opinion. time will tel who was right.


    First of all, Parker was HOW old when he played against sarunas? 16? 17? Sarunaus was what, 24? 25?

    To say Sarunas is better than Tony Parker is an absoluke joke. Sorry, but it is. Parker is an all-star. Sarunas wouldnt even start on msot NBA teams.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  10. #60
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    He can't do the same things because the talent is so much better. He's not quick enough to guard people in this league.
    That's not to say the GAME itself is better, the one on one and other BS that 'rules' the NBA sickens me and anyone that grew up on TEAM basketball.
    But the fact remains that these are the BEST athletes in the world. ANd to expect him to do the same things against them is silly.
    He's an AVERAGE player in this league. He'll never be a star.
    Shame on yourself.
    Common man, I saw Pacers game this season.
    Saras brings spark, energy attitude that NOBODY on this team has. Not to talk about shooting and passing abilities.
    The facts can remain whatsoever facts. People like you said Larry Bird is not athletic enough quick enough etc. They said he will never be a star. But he is a LEGEND. And so ~ will Saras. Now or later, when he gets a chance. Just ask Larry about it. I'm sure that he as a coach could have maximize Saras game.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    you what?
    concur

    Quote Originally Posted by Webster's
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    con·cur ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-kūr)
    intr.v. con·curred, con·cur·ring, con·curs
    1. To be of the same opinion; agree: concurred on the issue of preventing crime. See Synonyms at assent.
    2. To act together; cooperate.
    3. To occur at the same time; coincide: icy sleet that concurred with a forceful wind.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=concur

    He agrees.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  12. #62
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    First of all, Parker was HOW old when he played against sarunas? 16? 17? Sarunaus was what, 24? 25?

    To say Sarunas is better than Tony Parker is an absoluke joke. Sorry, but it is. Parker is an all-star. Sarunas wouldnt even start on msot NBA teams.
    Now please dont teach europeans about european players.
    Tony Parker is playing for France NT and meeting Saras annualy in championships, friendly games, I guess at least once per year. So with all the respect to Tony, Saras outplayed him many many times and he was not 16,17.
    By the way Parker totally sucked during Euro championship this summer. He averaged much less then 10 ppg with extremely low percentage. Thats what happens to shootingless slashers that meet zone defence.
    Just to get the perspective of our little comparison of Saras with Tony "allstar" Parker, look at Parker stat line in his rookie year:

    YEARTEAMGGSMPGFG%3P%FT%OFFDEFRPGAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG
    01-02 SAS 777229.4.419.323.675.42.12.64.31.16.091.962.209.2


    Saras rookie year till now:

    TeamGGSMPGFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%OFFDEFTOTAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG
    IND 361323.997-229 .42453-130 .40883-93 .892.32.22.53.2.83.111.831.509.2


    So wait and see

  13. #63
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    concur


    He agrees.
    Thanks man,

    The hype around Saras is justified.
    He is special, don't you see that?

  14. #64
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Saras has outplayed Parker every time they faced each other in the international competition.
    Playing on the mighty powerhouse that is France, in addition to coming off a grueling NBA finals with little rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    YEARTEAMGGSMPGFG%3P%FT%OFFDEFRPGAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG
    01-02 SAS 777229.4.419.323.675.42.12.64.31.16.091.962.209.2


    Saras rookie year till now:

    TeamGGSMPGFGM-AFG%3PM-A3P%FTM-AFT%OFFDEFTOTAPGSPGBPGTOPFPPG
    IND 361323.997-229 .42453-130 .40883-93 .892.32.22.53.2.83.111.831.509.2


    So wait and see
    Wait and see?

    Parker was 19 as a rookie.

    Sarunas is 29 as a rookie.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  15. #65

    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    you what?
    I agree with you totally.
    But an hour or so later, Hibbert wrote on his Twitter account: "Love this coach [and] I love this team. We can go far this year if we play like that. 2night we played our hearts out. Just didn't get the win."

  16. #66
    Kestas
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    First of all, Parker was HOW old when he played against sarunas? 16? 17? Sarunaus was what, 24? 25?

    Sarunas wouldnt even start on msot NBA teams.
    well, your incompetence amuses me! (that's regarding the first remark)
    compared to you, guys, average 10 year old in Lithuania knows more (edit: much more) about international basketball. no offense..

    and mind you Saras was starting for your beloved championship contender just a month or so into his first season in NBA. that's regarding the second remark.

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestas
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    and mind you Saras was starting for your beloved championship contender just a month or so into his first season in NBA. that's regarding the second remark.
    well, your incompetence amuses me!

    compared to you, guys, average 10 year old in Lithuania knows more (edit: much more) about international basketball. no offense..
    compared to you, the average 5-year old American knows more about NBA basketball, no offense.

    edit:much more

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

  18. #68
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Wait and see?

    Parker was 19 as a rookie.

    Sarunas is 29 as a rookie.
    Havent you heard that its heart and mind and not the age matters the most? (From you grandfather)

    29 is not too bad, especially for the point guard. He shows signs of quick adaptation. Most of people on this board write that his defence improved drastically. I saw his games this and last season. I think he lost 5-10 pounds and defending and running like he never did. He is learning and 29 is not old enough. He has another 5 years untill his body weakens.

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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    Havent you heard that its heart and mind and not the age matters the most? (From you grandfather)

    29 is not too bad, especially for the point guard. He shows signs of quick adaptation. Most of people on this board write that his defence improved drastically. I saw his games this and last season. I think he lost 5-10 pounds and defending and running like he never did. He is learning and 29 is not old enough. He has another 5 years untill his body weakens.

    The point is, you're comparing a 19-year old rookie to a 29-year old rookie. That's not even remotely fair.

    Sarunas at 19 wouldnt have been in the NBA, period. He wouldnt even have gotten an invitation to traning camp until at least 25.

    You want to say he's god's gift to basketball, fine. But don't go comparing him to all-stars.

    Sarunas is a nice backup in the NBA. On a team with no stellar PGs, he might even be a full-time starter. TO expect anythign ebyond that from him is ridiculous. He is steady, but not dominant in any phase of the game.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  20. #70
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoopsforlife
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    I agree with you totally.

  21. #71
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    well, your incompetence amuses me!



    compared to you, the average 5-year old American knows more about NBA basketball, no offense.

    edit:much more

    Yeah, Kestas you should know that Kstat (nick similarities are never casual) is notorious for being PISTONS fan.

  22. #72
    Lithfan
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    The point is, you're comparing a 19-year old rookie to a 29-year old rookie. That's not even remotely fair.

    Sarunas at 19 wouldnt have been in the NBA, period. He wouldnt even have gotten an invitation to traning camp until at least 25.

    You want to say he's god's gift to basketball, fine. But don't go comparing him to all-stars.

    Sarunas is a nice backup in the NBA. On a team with no stellar PGs, he might even be a full-time starter. TO expect anythign ebyond that from him is ridiculous. He is steady, but not dominant in any phase of the game.

    Please, almost NO european AT ANY age NEVER excelled his first year in NBA. I know it can be ridiculos to you, but he is dominant in one phase - the winning one. And the thing is you don't expect it from him as he is not athletic, his dribbling sucks etc, even for Euro level. But in spite of those things he plays great! Well average for you in NBA at the moment.
    His desire to win and determination are unbelievable. i'm wondered that there are no stories yet about player shooting 3's and FT's in Indianapolis after lights turn off.
    The only analogy I know is Larry Bird.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Everybody needs to just calm down. This has stopped being a discussion about a basketball player and has devolved into a nationalist slug-fest, never a good thing. First of all, Saras will start in Indiana by next year after Jack and Tins are gone and will become the team leader that he should be. Secondly, my saying that he is not ready now and does some stupid things now and then is not an insult to the entire nation of Lithuania. I love those little runners he hits with consistancy, but I hate it when he forgets the limitations of his teammates and attempts a pass that they cannot handle. Finally, if Saras is as good as I think that he is, he will make the necessary adjustments to his game to thrive in the NBA.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithfan
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    Thanks man,

    The hype around Saras is justified.
    He is special, don't you see that?
    No.

    He looks like a rookie to me. And I'm certainly not going to use the special word until I've seen him in a couple of playoff series.

    And I believe Tinsley is the better player, both overall and for the Pacers. But he's never healthy in the playoffs, and that's a huge problem.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #75
    Kestas
    Guest

    Default Re: Okay, how bout Saras 38?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Playing on the mighty powerhouse that is France, in addition to coming off a grueling NBA finals with little rest.



    Wait and see?

    Parker was 19 as a rookie.

    Sarunas is 29 as a rookie.
    these thing happen from time to time. not all good players go to NBA. some go too late. like Sabonis did when he was 30 or 31 and could barely run..
    anyways, it is hard to say who's better, but if we look at the facts we can see who gets more recognition. take EUROSCAR awards, that are among the most prestigeous basketball awards in Europe (I'd say they are the best known ones). the award is given to the best players over the year according to the survey of basketball specialists and journalists from around the continent. the award is influenced by players performance in the international competition and in the club competitions.
    this year award for the best European player went to Nowitzki (191 points), who was pehenomenal in Germany's success in Eurobasket and also made his mark (as usual) in NBA. second was Saras (97), third - Parker (57). all observers agree that Saras' result was hurt by his absence in Eurobasket, but he still finished second. last year Saras was second as well.
    if we look at this years FIBA nominations for the best European player of the year, we will see that the most probable candidates are Parker, Saras, Kirilenko and Nowitzki:
    http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_-M4,Jp...TnA8adZx2.html
    there is an internet poll there, but it means nothing for the end result.
    anyways, their basketball life took different shapes but it would ont be fair to put Parker above Saras just because he went to NBA at a young age. Parker had more succes in NBA, but Saras had more succes everywhere else a n d is now given a chance to do the same in NBA.

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