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Thread: SportingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

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    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default SportingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...ic.php?t=51755

    The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest
    January 9, 2006

    Is Indiana GM Donnie Walsh really stubborn enough to not trade Ron Artest? Artest himself thought it possible last week: "I don't know, I'm starting to think I'm not going to be traded this season." Tuesday marks one month since Artest's trade request, and he's still gathering up dust on the inactive list. No wonder, then, that comments like these make Pacers fans cringe and Artest's fantasy owners recoil in terror.

    Artest has become the village bicycle of the NBA's rumor mill in his brief time on the block. Suitors have included Denver, Sacramento, Atlanta, Minnesota, the Clippers, the Lake Show and, most recently, the Warriors, in a deal that was supposed to have been consummated last Friday (it wasn't). If so many teams have a serious interest in Artest, why has he been so tough to trade?

    Because the Pacers have overplayed their hand. In dubbing Artest a "top-12" player when this saga began, Donnie Walsh set himself up to look like a failure if he gets anything less than a surefire franchise cornerstone in return for his talented headcase. Indiana coach Rick Carlisle didn't help matters by taking the Artest hyperbole up a notch last week, saying: "Whoever ends up with him is going to get a top-10 player ... a bona fide All-Star, and maybe the best two-way player in the game." Isn't Carlisle just making Walsh's life more difficult?

    After all, even if the salary cap wasn't a factor, it's easy to name 12 players no sane GM would trade for Ron Artest:

    1. Shaquille O'Neal

    2. Kobe Bryant

    3. Tracy McGrady

    4. Dwyane Wade

    5. Kevin Garnett

    6. Dirk Nowitzki

    7. Steve Nash

    8. LeBron James

    9. Tim Duncan

    10. Vince Carter

    11. Elton Brand

    12. Shawn Marion

    See? We all know that Artest isn't a top-12 player, and so do NBA GMs. Still, figuring out exactly where Artest ranks is tough: How many other players can you name who are better than Ronnie? Chances are, not many. So how will it look when the game's "best two-way player" gets dealt for a package of, say, Ike Diogu and Mickeal Pietrus? [ed. - I'll answer that: ]

    One thing seems clear: Donnie Walsh will need to wise up and make concessions to move his troubled star. This is the same league in which Shaq once got traded for Lamar Odom and Vinsanity got traded for a post-transplant Alonzo Mourning and some virtual nobodies. The Pacers are 6-6 since the Artest sweepstakes began, and they show no signs of emerging from their malaise until a deal gets done.
    "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
    -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
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    One thing seems clear: Donnie Walsh will need to wise up and make concessions to move his troubled star. This is the same league in which Shaq once got traded for Lamar Odom and Vinsanity got traded for a post-transplant Alonzo Mourning and some virtual nobodies. The Pacers are 6-6 since the Artest sweepstakes began, and they show no signs of emerging from their malaise until a deal gets done.


    And we saw how well those ended up.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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    DG-33
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    "Sportings News: We Wish We Were Sports Illustrated And Someone Actually Cared What We Had To Say"

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
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    http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...ic.php?t=51755

    The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest
    January 9, 2006

    Is Indiana GM Donnie Walsh really stubborn enough to not trade Ron Artest? Artest himself thought it possible last week: "I don't know, I'm starting to think I'm not going to be traded this season." Tuesday marks one month since Artest's trade request, and he's still gathering up dust on the inactive list. No wonder, then, that comments like these make Pacers fans cringe and Artest's fantasy owners recoil in terror.

    Artest has become the village bicycle of the NBA's rumor mill in his brief time on the block. Suitors have included Denver, Sacramento, Atlanta, Minnesota, the Clippers, the Lake Show and, most recently, the Warriors, in a deal that was supposed to have been consummated last Friday (it wasn't). If so many teams have a serious interest in Artest, why has he been so tough to trade?

    Because the Pacers have overplayed their hand. In dubbing Artest a "top-12" player when this saga began, Donnie Walsh set himself up to look like a failure if he gets anything less than a surefire franchise cornerstone in return for his talented headcase. Indiana coach Rick Carlisle didn't help matters by taking the Artest hyperbole up a notch last week, saying: "Whoever ends up with him is going to get a top-10 player ... a bona fide All-Star, and maybe the best two-way player in the game." Isn't Carlisle just making Walsh's life more difficult?

    After all, even if the salary cap wasn't a factor, it's easy to name 12 players no sane GM would trade for Ron Artest:

    1. Shaquille O'Neal

    2. Kobe Bryant

    3. Tracy McGrady

    4. Dwyane Wade

    5. Kevin Garnett

    6. Dirk Nowitzki

    7. Steve Nash

    8. LeBron James

    9. Tim Duncan

    10. Vince Carter

    11. Elton Brand

    12. Shawn Marion

    See? We all know that Artest isn't a top-12 player, and so do NBA GMs. Still, figuring out exactly where Artest ranks is tough: How many other players can you name who are better than Ronnie? Chances are, not many. So how will it look when the game's "best two-way player" gets dealt for a package of, say, Ike Diogu and Mickeal Pietrus? [ed. - I'll answer that: ]

    One thing seems clear: Donnie Walsh will need to wise up and make concessions to move his troubled star. This is the same league in which Shaq once got traded for Lamar Odom and Vinsanity got traded for a post-transplant Alonzo Mourning and some virtual nobodies. The Pacers are 6-6 since the Artest sweepstakes began, and they show no signs of emerging from their malaise until a deal gets done.

    1st...somebody needs to check their stats...6 and 6?????????

    I'll dispute his stance on VC, SM, and Elton Brand....when considering talent alone and in that case he would fit into the Top 12.
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    I would disagree that they show no signs. Now that Granger is in the starting lineup they have looked pretty good.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Ron is very capable of putting up 25pts 6rebs 4assists and 2.5 stls for an season average.

    Once you get that high you can interchange players, but Ron also shuts down the top 2/3 player on the other team, which is something that stats don't measure.

    I'd take Ron over VC, Elton, Marion, and even Dirk if his head was on right. If he isn't a top 12 player, he's certainly #13.

    It's one thing to argue is last point about the Shaq and VC trades, which is legit, and try to argue that he's not a top-tier player when he plays, which is just stupid to do.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by blanket
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    [After all, even if the salary cap wasn't a factor, it's easy to name 12 players no sane GM would trade for Ron Artest:

    1. Shaquille O'Neal

    2. Kobe Bryant

    3. Tracy McGrady

    4. Dwyane Wade

    5. Kevin Garnett

    6. Dirk Nowitzki

    7. Steve Nash

    8. LeBron James

    9. Tim Duncan

    10. Vince Carter

    11. Elton Brand

    12. Shawn Marion
    OK, I'll play along.

    If Ron had no issues at all. If he were Tim Duncan in that regard.


    I'd rather have Ron than:

    Marion
    Brand
    Dirk
    Vince Carter.

    So that makes ron number 8 on the list. And really with T-Mac's back problems, I'd take Ron over him too. And Shaq is geting old quick and very injury prone, so who knows. There are only a handful of players I'd rather have than Ron.

  8. #8

    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Shaq is 35 and eager to retire in 2 or 3 years. His body seems to be wearing down, too.

    If you are building for the long haul I'd put him near the bottom of those 12, but still well ahead of Ron.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    would I be boiled in oil if I just said let's keep him?

    Sounds like Rick holds him in high regard

    Oh nevermind
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    What the hell does the writer expect Walsh and Carlisle to say when they are asked about Artest?

    "Well, in value, he's just a step above dog poop. So, if you happen to offer us a couple of second round draft picks and a poor contract, we'd probably jump right on that deal."

    Walsh has said all along that Artest is a top 20 player, probably more like top 10 or 12. And Carlisle saying that Ron is the best two-way player in the league is something no one would really argue... after all does it really matter whether he is the top two-way player, or only #3 if you can name a couple others in his league. Neither Walsh nor Carlisle is lying; they are both pretty accurate in what they are saying.

    Therefore, their comments would neither hurt nor help Ron's chances of being traded. They are just stating the obvious.

    Sounds like the writer is just like several folks on our forum. Impatient and simply can't wait to see what happens.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    This guy is a bonafied knob.

    Nothing to see here, move along...
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Of the top 15 players....I will concede that its arguable whether Artest falls into that catagory. But anything between 15-30...one can make a strong case that he falls into that that catagory despite factoring in his "idiot/crazy/offcourt" issues.

    Considering our most recent trade rumor with the Warriors ( assuming that its a straight up Artest+Freddie for DunDunJr+Pietrus deal ):

    Pietrus = Freddie ( at worst....at best Pietrus > Freddie )
    DunDunJr << Artest

    Does Artest's trade value ( easily a top 30-40 player in the league factoring in his offcourt issues ) drops down so much that he is considered ( due to his high risk ) on par with a player like Dunleavy ( easily a top 50-100 player in the league ) to make such a deal fair from the Pacers side?

    As Pacer fans....Artest's trade value is clearly lower then it should be....but I don't think his trade value is so low that his trade value is equal in value to a comprable SF like DunDunJr ( much less ignoring the rumored DGeorge+Draft pick for Artest ).

    What we have been seeing this last month is GMs lowballing the heck out of Walsh and the very reason why we have not seen anything happen. Walsh is patient enough to wait until the Trade deadline for the deal that he is looking for...but considering that the best we have seen is questionable at best.....I think we are going to have a very long January and February to look forward to.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    First of all, nobody the Pacers seem to be asking for are equal value anyway. The Pacers aren't seeking equal value, but they do want someone that adds value to the team. We already have some decent players, getting 2 more slightly-above-average players for Ron doesn't make us any better. If DW doesn't get any offers to make us better, I, as a Pacers fan, don't "cringe". I'm happy that he's not trading him just because there are a couple of marginal starters or luke-warm prospects offered.

    I conclude the same thing that many of you already have, this guy doens't have a clue.

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    All is full of Orange! Mourning's Avatar
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    What we have been seeing this last month is GMs lowballing the heck out of Walsh and the very reason why we have not seen anything happen. Walsh is patient enough to wait until the Trade deadline for the deal that he is looking for...but considering that the best we have seen is questionable at best.....I think we are going to have a very long January and February to look forward to.
    Yup! Really funny he mentions "serious interest" by other teams don't you think? Like we are getting some reasonable deals (on the scale of reasonably bad, but not horrible), which is obviously not the case.

    I think we really are getting total crap deals. We are not Toronto in this regard, we don't have to trade him immediately, though I'm sure everyone would love it too happen, offcourse, we really don't have too and our management is smart enough to recognize that, something the Raptors certainly can not claim.

    If one GM offers a halfway decent deal then I'm sure Larry and Donnie would try to notify other GM's to entice them go up with their offers aswell, but if they get no reaction then I see them biting. We are just not getting anything close to "reasonable" or "halfway decent". Don't blame Indy for that, blame the rest of the league.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    OK, I'll play along.

    If Ron had no issues at all.
    Even if I agreed with your Artest talent evaluation, This statement pretty much says it all. The man has issues.

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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistoner
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    Even if I agreed with your Artest talent evaluation, This statement pretty much says it all. The man has issues.
    Thank you Mr. Obvious.
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    Default Re: SprtingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    So how will it look when the game's "best two-way player" gets dealt for a package of, say, Ike Diogu and Mickeal Pietrus? [ed. - I'll answer that: ]

    No *****. That's the trade I want! THen AL.

  18. #18
    Chest Rockwell
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    Default Re: SportingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    I think the 'overplaying' of the hand were the comments that Ron will never play again for Indy and that he betrayed the team etc.

    If the Pacers had just left Ron on the team and quietly gone about a trade, the results on the court and on the trading block would have been much better. Treating him like a leper is what makes teams a little antsy.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: SportingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    This article is hopelessly ignorant.

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    Default Re: SportingNews.com: The Pacers have overplayed their hand with Artest

    Quote Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell
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    If the Pacers had just left Ron on the team and quietly gone about a trade, the results on the court and on the trading block would have been much better. Treating him like a leper is what makes teams a little antsy.
    It's difficult to keep things on the down-low with the way Ron instigated this entire situation.

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