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Thread: Pacers Offense

  1. #1
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Pacers Offense

    I am starting to detect signs of life in the Pacers the past 2 games.
    My question is what do you attribute this to? I have a couple of ideas on
    why this is happening and please feel free to add to it. Now I don't feel this
    is a short term thing, I think the team is starting to gell.
    Number one on my list is less is more. By this I mean having one less
    player(Artest) has really removed a distraction and has allowed other players to shine.
    Number 2 is Stephen Jackson. I have always believed that this team and
    really NBA teams in general do best with the shooting guard and small forward
    providing most of the offense. With that being said I believe Jackson leading
    the team in scoring is not a bad thing, PROVIDING Jackson continues to play
    the way he has. He has changed a little in style. He is driving to the hoop and getting layups or a foul called. He is big enough and strong enough to
    do this. His stand still 3 is a very reliable shot. If he never took and jumper
    on the move I would be very happy as he must shoot 10% with that shot.
    I thought I would never promote Jackson but he is starting to win me over
    a little. He has been complaining less since the first of the year.
    Number 3 is that Freddie Jones needs to be kept. He is the one player
    that can drive and has athleticism. He can defend shooting guards.
    If Freddie continues to shoot his midrange jumper he is going to become
    deadly. With that shot secured he becomes a triple threat. The three,
    the midrange and the drive to the hoop
    Number 4 is the team is getting a little healthy and is developing some
    continuity.
    Number 5 is JO would score a little and defend and rebound as his primary
    goal this team would be a contender again. My fear is that we revert to the
    throw into JO mode and everyone stands around. I hope to never see that
    offense again as the primary offense.

    When this team plays as a team they are fun to watch. If Tinsley was
    traded with Ron for something good I am not sure I would be that disappointed. Tinsley and his injuries and attitude and style of play
    are not good for the team. I may be proven wrong but I believe again in
    this case less is more.


    owl

  2. #2
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Wow that is crazy, we both started a thread about the Pacers offense at the exact same time. I perahps we should combine the two threads.

  3. #3
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    That is funny but probably inevitable. If I can see it others probably have
    also. The team is different and Rick made a comment that I found encouraging.

    "The turning point?
    It came in Saturday's practice.
    After enjoying a day off Friday following Thursday's win at Golden State, the Pacers got back to serious business. The competition became so heated that Stephen Jackson and Danny Granger had what Jackson called "a little wrestling match" that quickly blew over, but it was foretelling of the edge they brought to Sunday's game.
    "We had one of the best practices we've had in the 21/2 years I've been here," coach Rick Carlisle said. "Guys really seemed committed to getting better. Little things like that are good signs. You hope it translates to the games, but you never know."

    I believe this bodes well for the team. Plus Danny Granger is as some
    have put it the "Anti-Artest". He brings good things to the team and not
    the bad as Ron has. Someone may want to expound on this.


    owl

  4. #4
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    When the Pacers put pressure on the ball and play the passing lanes like they did against the Kings, Rick will always let them run. The same can be said when they rebound the ball well, especially long rebounds in the backcourt.

    Rick will never be a take it from out of bounds type of running coach. If the team wants to run, they'd better get some steals and rebounds. It seems that they're starting to catch on to this too and the defensive pressure in the backcourt has really picked up.

    The 3 major reasons for this:

    1. Fred Jones has really picked up his defensive pressure and his confidence is through the roof right now.

    2. Stephen Jackson might be the Pacers best defender right now. His 'D' has been that good lately.

    3. Tinsley isn't on the floor. I know it may be a cheap shot but Tinsley gambles too much for steals and gets beat off the dribble too much. AJ, warts and all, is a much better defender.

    Another bonus is that Jack and Freddie both play at another level offensively when they're engaged defensively.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    GOOD GOD THAT'S LARRY BIRD'S MUSIC!

  5. #5
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    I'm moving what I posted in another thread here.



    ____

    Most of you complain about Rick's offense. You don't like his dump it into J.O. and stand around offense. You don't like his insistence on calling plays every trip down the court. You don't like his highly structured offense.

    You want Rick to open up the offense, you want more ball and player movement, and you want them to run more.

    I'm not going to go point by point, but if you watched the Kings game I think you saw a "different offense" But was it really any different at all. Well it sure looked different. Why did it look different. Did Rick change anything.

    I would argue there were really no changes at all last night. They still iso'd Jax, still got Fred running the pick and rolls and even threw the ball to J.O in the post. So why did it look so different. Was it just because they were hitting shots, maybe partially.

    But the real difference was the Pacers defense was outstanding and their rebounding was great. That allowed them to get out and run. I know many of you think Rick does not want the Pacers to run, but I don't believe that for a second. He wants them to run and will allow them to. But he wants them to be smart about it and if they don't have a fast break, set up the halfcourt offense.

    Let me address the halfcourt offense:

    Jay made an excellent point Sat. night at the party, do the Pacers have players who can be trusted to run a halfcourt offense that is freewheeling. a react and react type of offense. I say they don't. Plus certain players have offensive limitations and they need structure. Most of you probably think I am referring to Foster, and I am but also players like Cro, Harrison, Jax, AJ, all really benefit from having the structure there.

    I don't have time right now to get into this in more depth.

  6. #6
    Member NPFII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Most of you complain about Rick's offense. You don't like his dump it into J.O. and stand around offense. You don't like his insistence on calling plays every trip down the court. You don't like his highly structured offense.

    You want Rick to open up the offense, you want more ball and player movement, and you want them to run more.

    I'm not going to go point by point, but if you watched the Kings game I think you saw a "different offense" But was it really any different at all. Well it sure looked different. Why did it look different. Did Rick change anything.

    I would argue there were really no changes at all last night. They still iso'd Jax, still got Fred running the pick and rolls and even threw the ball to J.O in the post. So why did it look so different. Was it just because they were hitting shots, maybe partially.

    But the real difference was the Pacers defense was outstanding and their rebounding was great. That allowed them to get out and run. I know many of you think Rick does not want the Pacers to run, but I don't believe that for a second. He wants them to run and will allow them to. But he wants them to be smart about it and if they don't have a fast break, set up the halfcourt offense.

    Let me address the halfcourt offense:

    Jay made an excellent point Sat. night at the party, do the Pacers have players who can be trusted to run a halfcourt offense that is freewheeling. a react and react type of offense. I say they don't. Plus certain players have offensive limitations and they need structure. Most of you probably think I am referring to Foster, and I am but also players like Cro, Harrison, Jax, AJ, all really benefit from having the structure there.

    I don't have time right now to get into this in more depth.
    I disagree on that. I think they do, but they need help ... e.g. coaching.
    I'll give 2 examples:
    1. Let's say you have a play designed for your SG coming off a double screen, getting the ball from your PG, and hitting the catch&shoot (Reggie style). This play is basically easy to run, and if you have that catch&shoot type of player you can play it several times a game. Now if the defense (say Detroit) catches on and sends one of the picker's defenders to stop the pass, and that kills the play. So now you're original play was killed, and you have to resort to a 1on1 move. However, a good offense wouldn't stop at the initial play, and the screeners would pick up on the new defensive scheme and utilize it to their advantage, like rolling to the basket, or taking advantage of the new mismatch. The PG has to recognize these developments and act accordingly.

    2. Say you have a high-picknroll at the top of the key with your PG & PF. You take into consideration the 3 basic types of defense - switch, show & double-team. Lets say that you got the double team, and your PG got trapped on the side. What now? do you send help from the other players? do you take a time-out? Lets say you designed it so that the free PF was supposed to drop off to the 3-pt line, but now he's zone-covered by one of the other guys. Do you have a play for this type of situation? can you teach your players what they need to look for? Is it so hard to say "cut to the basket" or "set a back-screen"?

    I think it's all down to coaching. Not X&O coaching, but teaching the general aspects and angles, incorporating trust in your players, and of course - letting them make mistakes - as long as they're on the learning curve, and not just standing around.

    Your guys have to always know that a play never ends, and always keep on the move, and try to do the right stuff. Your coaching has to teach them what to look for, where to go, what's going on, etc...

    It's harder than just standing around and watching your star go 1on1 in the post, but when done correctly, it results in high percentage shots and easy buckets. The amazing thing about this type of play, is that once you "get it" - you're level of play increases almost instantaneously. It's a hard concept to fathom, but it makes your team much more lethal, and for our sake - a lot more fun to watch.

    The Pacers can do it - they have the talent, the coaching, the management, and the fans.

  7. #7
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    I believe the overall team defense is improving and a lot of that I believe
    can be attributed to Granger. With the practice comment by Carlisle
    I believe what Granger is doing is contagious. The best defenders right now
    are JO, Granger, Jackson and Foster. Granger gets his hands on a lot of balls
    in the passing lanes. I believe he is a better defender in some respects
    than Artest. Not one on one so much but as a team defender. He has some of the Derrick McKey ability but he does offense, unlike McKey.
    With the defense comes missed shots and thus more rebounds then
    more fast breaks and scoring opportunities.



    owl

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    I wonder with the way teams are coached overseas if it is not time
    to bring in a coach from overseas, maybe as an assistant.


    owl

  9. #9
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Last night was the best we have looked all season no doubt about it. I honestly expect us to light up the lakers tonight. Watch for Jermaine and Sjack to both have huge games tonight. Jack will love the opportunity to play Kobe and I have faith in him.

    Also, I really wish Carlisle would of kept Sjack in last night. I would of loved for him to get 40 points, that would of done wonders for his confidence. But, he did the smart thing taking him out so he wouldn't get injured. But Sjack could of EASILY went for a career high last night.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Theodore
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    Last night was the best we have looked all season no doubt about it. I honestly expect us to light up the lakers tonight. Watch for Jermaine and Sjack to both have huge games tonight. Jack will love the opportunity to play Kobe and I have faith in him.

    Also, I really wish Carlisle would of kept Sjack in last night. I would of loved for him to get 40 points, that would of done wonders for his confidence. But, he did the smart thing taking him out so he wouldn't get injured. But Sjack could of EASILY went for a career high last night.
    I beg to differ.

    Jack had his great game last night, and JO is still "under the weather" (or at least can use it as an excuse).

    We have no-one who can remotely guard Kobe except Fred, and maybe Danny. Jack will get his 2 quick fouls in the 1st Q, and then Fred will come in.

    JO will have a 25-10 game, Cro will be ok playing in his home town, and Fred will chip in his regular-of-late 15 points. If Jack scores over 15 I'll be surprised profoundly...

    The real X-factors are the Lakers "role" players - Odom, Smush, Cook, and the likes, against our rookies - Danny & Saras.

    My bet - Kobe scores yet another 40+ game and the Lakers win by 10+.

  11. #11
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I'm moving what I posted in another thread here.



    ____

    Most of you complain about Rick's offense. You don't like his dump it into J.O. and stand around offense. You don't like his insistence on calling plays every trip down the court. You don't like his highly structured offense.

    You want Rick to open up the offense, you want more ball and player movement, and you want them to run more.

    I'm not going to go point by point, but if you watched the Kings game I think you saw a "different offense" But was it really any different at all. Well it sure looked different. Why did it look different. Did Rick change anything.

    I would argue there were really no changes at all last night. They still iso'd Jax, still got Fred running the pick and rolls and even threw the ball to J.O in the post. So why did it look so different. Was it just because they were hitting shots, maybe partially.

    But the real difference was the Pacers defense was outstanding and their rebounding was great. That allowed them to get out and run. I know many of you think Rick does not want the Pacers to run, but I don't believe that for a second. He wants them to run and will allow them to. But he wants them to be smart about it and if they don't have a fast break, set up the halfcourt offense.

    Let me address the halfcourt offense:

    Jay made an excellent point Sat. night at the party, do the Pacers have players who can be trusted to run a halfcourt offense that is freewheeling. a react and react type of offense. I say they don't. Plus certain players have offensive limitations and they need structure. Most of you probably think I am referring to Foster, and I am but also players like Cro, Harrison, Jax, AJ, all really benefit from having the structure there.

    I don't have time right now to get into this in more depth.
    I agree with you but I also do want to add that there was another thing that I think is important.

    There was a lot more off the ball movement than there was early in the season.

    We still had spacing on the floor, which is part of Rick's plan, but there was a lot more cutting & movement on the wings than what we would see if we still had Ron & J.O. in the game.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  12. #12

    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    The biggest difference has been the defense. This is the 3rd blow out win we have had if you include the Seatle game. We aren't just scoring a lot we are winning by a lot as well.

    One factor is we are hitting an unusually high amout of 3 pointers in all of those games. I don't think we can keep that up.

    Also we have been getting quick starts and not playing from behind. That is rare for recent Pacer teams.

    My personal number one reason is we have Jackson at the two and Granger at the three. I hated our two pg backcourt. This is so much better defensively.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    I agree with owl that Granger's play has been infectious throughout the whole team. The reason Artest plus/minus stats were so high was b/c he has this same type of infectious energy. Even if Granger's not producing much, his time on the court helps the team.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    -- Albert Einstein

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    I agree with you Pacerfan., but without the distractions of Ron.


    owl

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersfan.
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    I agree with owl that Granger's play has been infectious throughout the whole team. The reason Artest plus/minus stats were so high was b/c he has this same type of infectious energy. Even if Granger's not producing much, his time on the court helps the team.
    I think the same is true for Saras. Are his plus/minus stats still high?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Pacers Offense

    Quote Originally Posted by NPFII
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    I beg to differ.

    Jack had his great game last night, and JO is still "under the weather" (or at least can use it as an excuse).

    We have no-one who can remotely guard Kobe except Fred, and maybe Danny. Jack will get his 2 quick fouls in the 1st Q, and then Fred will come in.

    JO will have a 25-10 game, Cro will be ok playing in his home town, and Fred will chip in his regular-of-late 15 points. If Jack scores over 15 I'll be surprised profoundly...

    The real X-factors are the Lakers "role" players - Odom, Smush, Cook, and the likes, against our rookies - Danny & Saras.

    My bet - Kobe scores yet another 40+ game and the Lakers win by 10+.
    I wasnt off by much...

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