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Thread: What has gotten into SJAX

  1. #1
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default What has gotten into SJAX

    Ever since I vented about him a couple weeks ago, he really has been playing differently. I want to say it's because he's moved to the #1 scorer spot for a little while, but it's not just his scoring. Jax has been playing smarter lately. He looks like the Jax that I was so high on last year.



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    Member Ragnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Maybe Ron was affecting his game.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Maybe he's trying not to get traded.

    Or maybe he's trying TO get traded.
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    I think with the loss of JO and Tins he became more focused. We're currently seeing the Jax we saw during last year's po's. I don't expect it to continue. When(if) we get back to full strength I expect him to revert until the PO's again (assuming we make em).
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Didn't we have the same debate about this when Artest sat out his first game?
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    He was awesome tonight.

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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    If he keeps playing like this (huge if), he could be a great second option.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    -- Albert Einstein

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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    I don't get why so many people are so against Jax. He takes a few bad shots, gets a tech every once in a while, big deal. I can't recall any games that JAX has specifically caused us to lose. He does way more good than bad. I keep hearing about his attitude toward the refs, I seem to recall Reggie had a similar attitude toward them most of his career.

    JAX's out played most of the players he's been matched up with this season, even the ones that are suppose to be better. He's not a superstar, but he does everything fairly well. He can drive strong to the hoop, hit the 3, he's an above average defender and he plays hard. He doesn't see the floor very well, but he's not a PG. He's a steaky shooter, but that hardly makes him much different than many other players. He has already proven he can hit big shots and can step it up in the playoffs.

    I'm pretty content with Jax and Fred holding down the SG spot. Right now we are not an elite team, but Granger is going to be great at SF and we still have a deep team with a bright future with the pieces we have.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  9. #9

    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar
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    Maybe Ron was affecting his game.
    Maybe Jamaal Tinsley was affecting his game.

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    #PacerNation 317Kim's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Jack has been great! He's had 20+ points in the last 5 games, along with a good number of steals, rebounds, and assists. Also doin a great job at gettin to the line AND making his FTs.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    While there might be a lot of reasons, the biggest reason is that Jax is a rhythm player very much like Jalen Rose. Jax needs a lot of shots to be effective and he needs them consistantly throughout the game. Many of you get upset when he continues to shoot even though he might start a game 0 for 5, but he can get hot very quickly and make the next 5 or he might miss the next 5 shots he takes.

    6thman you are joing abut Jamaal effecting his game, but you make a decent point, Jax needs the ball and he gets it more often when JT is not in the game

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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Maybe Jamaal Tinsley was affecting his game.

    I know you were just joking but I actually think there is a whole lot of truth to that statement.

    Really when you think about it, Ron and Tinsley were the two players that were most prone to breaking the offensive. Also, Ron and most nights, Tinsley would have way more shots and touches that Jack. With both of them out of the lineup, Jack is more free to play his game.

    Remember last year, Jack had his best games with Tinsley and Ron out of the lineup. JO has no negative effect on his game, in fact, he and JO work better together than Ron and JO ever did.

    I've been saying all season that Jack wasn't the Pacers problem. I'm feeling a little vindicated right now. Here's hoping Tinsley (the real Pacers problem) never plays another game for the Pacers.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    6thman you are joing abut Jamaal effecting his game, but you make a decent point, Jax needs the ball and he gets it more often when JT is not in the game
    Let's just say the joke was also to make a point that the P's play differently with Jamaal in the lineup.

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    Member NPFII's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Jack is a shooter. The more he shoots - the better his percentages will be.

    His MO is to start games with driving and settling for mid-range jumpers, and see if they go in (most games they dont - against SAC he started with a turnover and 0-4). After that he starts driving to the hoop hoping to get fouls (some games he gets them). His foul shots are his practice shots (he makes 75% of them - vs SAC he made a layup, went 6-6 from the line and another layup). That's where his brain sets on the basket and gets its rythm. After that he can start shooting from 3-pt range (vs SAC 4 straight 3-pt shots in the 3rd Q).

    This MO is a good one, but notice that he takes about 8-10 possessions to be effective. When he makes the initial shots or when he's getting the calls - he's ON.

    However - when he's not hitting the initial mid-rangers, or not getting the fouls on his drives - he's out of rythm, AND the 1st quarter goes down the drain. On top of that now the Pacers have to play catch-up, and they don't have their best offensive option who's not JO. Jack also has a tough time coming off the bench into his rythm. It takes him a while. If he's out of it - good chances he'll stay out of it.

    When Jack's playing good the Pacers invariably win. When he's not - they need other guys.

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Here we go again, Jax has a few decent games and let's load it up on Tins, he's injured anyway.

    Tinsleyhaving more shots the Jax on most nights ?? With 11 more games this year (counting) = < 1/3 of the games played, Jax has taken twice the amount of shots Tins has taken, so that is absolute nonsense.

    For a fact we can take that Tinsley is injured, if you want bash a player for that, good, go ahead, but do not let facts get in the way of fantasy here, Tinsle's EFF is higher then Jax, he takes less shots and does pass the ball to Jax whenever the play calls for it.

    If Tinsley "breaks" the offense regularly, then why is Rick playing him whenever available? PG breaking the offense, almost a new concept to me, certainly for a guy that despite being injured alsmot 1/3 of the season still has the highest ast rate on the team.

    Hey some don't like Tins, for whatever reason, some do, some don't like Jax, some do.
    The "pet peeves" about Tinsley are sure easier to mark under "nonsense" then the ones held against Jax.

    Jax had a good game, yes, but his 21 pts against Denver (hey! 3 games over 20) came from 6 - 17 shooting.

    If Jax is better without Tins and perhaps even JO, then look at the year he had in Atl and where it got them.

    Jax has a problem with being 3rd option and perhaps even being second but iof he has to be our primary scorer then we are in one big heap of trouble.
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Here we go again, Jax has a few decent games and let's load it up on Tins, he's injured anyway.
    I've been supporting Jack all season and dogging Tinsley for nearly as long. So at least I'm consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Tinsleyhaving more shots the Jax on most nights ?? With 11 more games this year (counting) = < 1/3 of the games played, Jax has taken twice the amount of shots Tins has taken, so that is absolute nonsense.
    Going back to last season and early this season, there are games I can specifically point to that Jamal dominated the ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Hey some don't like Tins, for whatever reason, some do, some don't like Jax, some do.
    I totally agree with this statement. I don't think Tinsley is the right PG for this team.

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    If Jax is better without Tins and perhaps even JO, then look at the year he had in Atl and where it got them.
    Forget Atlanta... Jack got us into the playoffs last year as the leading scorer. You can't dismiss that. Reggie turned the clock back but Jack was the leading scorer during that span. Where was Tinsley during that span? That's right, he was where he spends half his time - on the injured list.

    If nothing else, Jack is much more dependable (35 game suspension included) than Tinsley.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    As I said, don't let facts get in the way of fantasy

    Yes, Jax was the high scorer in the first round, which we do not survive if Tins does not come back, even admitted by the opposing coach, so not worthy of more discussion, and we will not discuss JO's injury either.

    So the second round they both played the same amount of games, easier to compare don't you think ?

    Jo highest avg scorer btw; 16.3

    Jax : 38 mpg .326 fg avg 4.2 reb 1.3 ast 12.8 pts
    Tins: 28 mpg .376 fg avg 3.5 reb 6.0 ast 10.0 pts

    Over the regular season Tins shot a beter fg% and a better 3pt %

    "got us into the playoffs"

    If you lose the games we won in the beginning certainly when Jax, JO and Ron were out, we would also never made the playoffs, so that is a limping statement.

    Now where was it exactly that Jax wsa so much better ?


    Listen I'm ok with you liking Jax, to each his own, but please, do not let that feeling get in the way with harsh realities.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  18. #18
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    As I said, don't let facts get in the way of fantasy

    Yes, Jax was the high scorer in the first round, which we do not survive if Tins does not come back, even admitted by the opposing coach, so not worthy of more discussion, and we will not discuss JO's injury either.

    So the second round they both played the same amount of games, easier to compare don't you think ?

    Jo highest avg scorer btw; 16.3

    Jax : 38 mpg .326 fg avg 4.2 reb 1.3 ast 12.8 pts
    Tins: 28 mpg .376 fg avg 3.5 reb 6.0 ast 10.0 pts

    Over the regular season Tins shot a beter fg% and a better 3pt %

    "got us into the playoffs"

    If you lose the games we won in the beginning certainly when Jax, JO and Ron were out, we would also never made the playoffs, so that is a limping statement.

    Now where was it exactly that Jax wsa so much better ?


    Listen I'm ok with you liking Jax, to each his own, but please, do not let that feeling get in the way with harsh realities.

    His point was that when the chips were down (JO out, team losing, making the playoffs slipping away), that Sjax came thru for the team. Meanwhile, Tinsley rode the pines injured. I'm not sure you actually countered that.

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  19. #19
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    wadda ya want me to say ? that he wasn't injured, like JO ?
    or should i make it by saying that when Jax was resting his arse because he threw haymakers at a spectator Tins was doing all the dirty work alone?

    AND keeping us in the race to begin with, without that effort and stepping up Jax never has a chance to "fight us into the playoffs"

    what remains are facts....
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    My only point about Tinsley impacting Jax is that Tinsley has the ball in his hands much more than AJ or Saras when either one is playing the point. part of that is by design and rightfully so, the Pacers run different plays with Tinsley than they do with either AJ or Saras. But even taking that diffeence into account, Tinsley still does dominate the ball, more than the "play" calls for.


    Jax is a better shooter the more he shoots and the more he handles the ball.

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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    His point was that when the chips were down (JO out, team losing, making the playoffs slipping away), that Sjax came thru for the team. Meanwhile, Tinsley rode the pines injured. I'm not sure you actually countered that.

    -Bball
    That's exactly my point. Tinsley is too fragile to depend on.

    As far as the Piston's series is concerned both Tinsley and Jack were pretty awful. I'm not going to deny that but I feel that Tinsley's failed one-on-one battle with Billups was why the Pacers lost the pivotal Game 6. His defense on Billups left a lot to be desired as well. Rick yanked Tinsley in another game (game 4?) during the 4th quarter for the same thing.

    Jack, although he struggled offensively, did a decent job on Prince the entire series defensively. So while Tinsley struggled on offense and defense Jack at least brought it on the defense end.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    aaah IC, so now it's no longer the other arguments but (Finals MVP) Billups.....
    the same who scored more points in the first round of the playoff and in the finals (averages) then against this slacker we know as Tinsley.......

    Maybe we lost because the Pistons were simply better, Tins rushed back from injury, JO rushed back from injury?
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    aaah IC, so now it's no longer the other arguments but (Finals MVP) Billups.....
    the same who scored more points in the first round of the playoff and in the finals (averages) then against this slacker we know as Tinsley.......

    Maybe we lost because the Pistons were simply better, Tins rushed back from injury, JO rushed back from injury?

    That's true. I'm not going to argue that at all. However, it was you who brought up the series with the Pistons, not I.

    Once again, the fact that Tinsley is so fragile is a huge part of my dislike of him. You just keep validating it.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Default Re: What has gotten into SJAX

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    While there might be a lot of reasons, the biggest reason is that Jax is a rhythm player very much like Jalen Rose. Jax needs a lot of shots to be effective and he needs them consistantly throughout the game. Many of you get upset when he continues to shoot even though he might start a game 0 for 5, but he can get hot very quickly and make the next 5 or he might miss the next 5 shots he takes.

    6thman you are joing abut Jamaal effecting his game, but you make a decent point, Jax needs the ball and he gets it more often when JT is not in the game
    Its great that he is carrying the team on his back during our normal stretch of injuries to Tinsley. What matters is what happens when JONeal and Tinsley come back into the lineup and SJax becomes the #2 and #3 scoring option.

    If your statement holds true...is it a good idea to have a shooter ( who needs a steady stream of shots to be consistent ) to be the #2 scoring option on a team?

    I think its okay if SJax recognizes that he is not hitting his shots and therefore defers the shot attempts to the #3 and #4 scoring options ( unless its for a wide open shot of course ) as opposed to trying to shoot himself out of the shooting funk ( which may or may not work ). I get the sense that he will do the latter....try to shoot himself out of his funk...as opposed to the former......get the ball to someone else.
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