Sorry people, I didn't get home till about 03:30 & then by the time I got around to moving today I got called into work. So I'm just now getting to this but even this is going to be short because honestly I have fogotten a lot of the stuff we talked about & I may still have to leave to go back to work.
Anyway I was a little late, I think I got there about 17:15 or so & there was already a pretty good group & they were into some form of discussion. I tried to sit back & listen but was soon brought into the conversation.
I won't recap who was there because that was covered in the other thread so I will just try & cover the questions & answers.
First a confession/apology. I forgot to take the questions from the forum to the party. I had them written out at home & just walked off without them so a lot of the questions didn't get asked.
First we tackled Fred Jones. To be honest with you I was very suprised by the universal answer I got on this one.
At our last party, for the most part, everybody was ready for Freddy to move on down the road. I figured with the increase in his scoring & the fact that he is one of about 3 pacers who can create their own shot I thought that the group thought on him would change.
It didn't. There really wasn't one single Fred Jones fan there. Not everybody wanted to jettison him off of the team but there was nobody that stood up & said that he needed to be kept on the team. That was at Pizza King, now once we got to Perkins Ragnar, who had missed the original conversation, made it clear that he thought Fred had earned a place on the Pacers because of the way he performed after last seasons suspensions.
Honestly I was a little suprised that there was no real support for Fred. But I think a lot of it came down to his size. Nobody felt comfortable with his height.
This was an easy question to open up with because Uncle Buck had not yet made the party so we started out light.
By the time we were done with Fred, U.B. showed up. So now was the time to hit the more controversial topics.
David Harrison was first on the list & we tried to decide if he was a young Shaq or a bag of crap or somewhere in-between.
The answers we got really ranged from Shaq to Crap & very few were in-between on him.
Jose stated that David should start right now, no questions asked & be allowed to play through his mistakes. Jay@Pizza_King agreed with him.
Everybody thought that his DNP-CD's was horrible except for one person. Yes, you know who was the one person who not only thought he deserved DNP-CD's he also stated that he wanted Harrison traded. (BTW for those not guessing Uncle Buck was the culprit here)
Now there were a few who were concerened with his baskeball I.Q. & Hoops stated that he thought David was like Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. To which I had to remind everybody that there was another character based on the Jeckle & Hyde myth.
Jay@Pizza_King stated that for the team to do anything at any time this season David would have to develop.
Overall though the group was very supportive of David & most had hopes that he would be the teams center.
Then we tackled Jeff Foster.
This is where some of the great quotes of the night came from.
I started running this one counter clockwise to allow U.B. to have plenty of time to bloviate (look it up) & he did not dissapoint.
Because we learned from our lecture that Jeff Foster is a top 20 defender in the N.B.A., were not sure where in the top 20 but he is there. That he blocks out for rebounds (to which Jay@Pizza_King shot Iced Tea from his nose to the floor) & that he might have some slight weaknesses on the offensive end that he might need to work on in the future.
Well needless to say this was worth every penny of my gas money to make it down there. It was great, U.B. was standing on his chair pounding his fist into his hand yelling & pointing at the masses.
Ok, so that might be a slight exateration. But it was great he was alive for the first time since Ron Artest demanded a trade.
Anyway other than Ragnar U.B. was pretty much on his own on this one. While there were only a few of us present that didn't like Foster at all most people were ambivalent towards him. Again Ragnar was there for support because he likes old oven mits but nobody else would break down & cry if he was part of a trade. Ok, I just remembered Hoops stated he liked him & would part with about everybody else & keep Jeff with a couple of other.
I forgot one question Roaming Gnome asked before everybody else got there & we never really got good answer for was this.
Did Walsh mishandle Jermaine O'Neal when Artest made the trade demand? Not what you might think btw, he actually meant should the Pacers have been more forcefull with J.O. to keep his mouth shut about the whole "Ron goes or I do" thing.
It was a very interesting & provactive question that I don't feel we spent enough time or energy on.
Side note: You would think if we start at 17:00 & end at 02:30 we would/could talk about everything Pacers related. You would be wrong.
We did not even cover all of the players, never talked much about Bird & did not fully address everybody's expectations of the future.
Then we went on to the secon biggest suprise of the night for me anyway.
Rick Carlisle.
Other than U.B. everybody is ready for this to be his last year. Nobody was calling for his ouster on the spot, well Tim did say that if he screws with Grangers min. then he should be fired right there & right then. But other than U.B. everybody else felt that if we were going to develop some young players than Rick was NOT the coach for that. Even if we went with vets. everybody is pretty much getting tired of his coaching style.
I knew U.B. would be on Carlisle side but I really suprised that Rick's second biggest supporter there was me. What's sad is that I wouldn't mind seeing Rick move on either but I think he is a heck of a coach.
Shade basically summed it up by stating that Rick was starting to annoy him, to which Hicks agreed.
This took a lot of time as everyboyd also summed up their problems with the offense & or defense at this time.
I'll be honest with you at this point I don't remember what else we talked about at the Pizza King.
I know we did but I just can't remember.
It was great to meet Gyron & Pignash who came to the gathering but could not join us over at Perkins.
Tim also had to leave us as well because he had to get up & go to work. But he still thinks a lot of people read to much into Jamaal's supposed pouting so I wanted to make sure that was known.
We adjourned to Perkins to which we got a suprise guest, ABA days showed up for the party at this time. I thought he was in Iraq but he was still here with us. Gamble also came to the perkins part but thanks to Shade we knew he was coming.
The Perkins part of the party had a little more of an edgy feel to it because we tackled some sensitive issues & we talked about players that people had more differing opinions on.
Stephen Jackson is not a popular Pacer with some people. Jose started off the talk with just laying it out by saying he wants him gone.
Gamble thought that Jackson should be given more time & thought that he was getting a bad rap.
ABA days was perplexing to me because he doesn't like Jackson but says that he should be kept this season because he is afraid of to much change.
Hoops & Pizzaguy both Hate Jackson. From there it just got worse, nobody defended Jax & Roaming Gnome just made bus/truck sounds the rest of the night whenever Jax's name came out.
Ragnar couldn't stay with us long so before he left he wanted to talk about Jamaal Tinsley.
BTW if you've never met Ragnar allow me to show you a photo of him.
This is pretty much the look he gave anybody who uttered a disparaging word about Jamaal.
Needless to say ABAdays was unfazed by the look. Hoops & ABA pretty much think that Jamaal is the personification of evil on earth & want him gone more than they want Artest gone.
Everybody agreed that Jamaal is a problem because of his health. Even Ragnar had to admit that he is frustrated by his lack of being healthy.
To which another of the suprise quotes of the night came out.
"If Jamaal is not healthy for the playoffs, I want him gone". Ragnar 1-7-06
We then talked about Saras & this is where I will admit that I am totally going to blow whatever I say about this because I could not pay any attention to anything the rest of the night because of what young Hicks said at this point in time.
Saras reminded him of Reggie Miller.
REGGIE MILLER
Wow.
Well needless to say that was bad enough but then Hoops was all for letting Saras play 48 min. a game.
We then had a philisophical discussion about Damon Bailey & Saras & whether the NBA has descriminated against skilled players vs. athletic players. That was interesting.
Jay@Perkins_pies thinks that Saras is to bossy & I made the point that the guy just needs to shut the F up & play ball.
The group was split on him.
I know we talked about a lot of other stuff & I know that again I had to bring Dale Davis & Brad Miller both into the topics of discussion, which by law I am required to do.
We kind of got the feeling that Uncle Buck is not thrilled with J.O. When pressed on it he claims fandom, but everynow & then he would spit out bits & pieces of the truth & you could just tell.
I kept trying to give him ammo all night long & even give him excuses for Ron but he didn't bite.
Then after everybody left, when it was just Beleive in Blue, Hicks, U.B. & myself the most suprising revalation of all came out.
Uncle Buck admitted that no matter what, no matter how we could have changed the circumstance that Ron Artest was going to melt down.
He hoped for a brighter future for Ron but felt that he he was doomed to fail no matter what.
Needless to say I had to leave on that note because I got lightheaded.
But before I left Blue & Hicks picked San Antonion to repeate while U.B. & myself took the Pistons.
I had a great time. It was fun to finally meet Jay, Ragnar, Gyron & Pignash. Each added a lot to the discussion & I hope they weren't to bored with our little gathering.
Thanks again to Jose for putting this altogether.
Anyway I was a little late, I think I got there about 17:15 or so & there was already a pretty good group & they were into some form of discussion. I tried to sit back & listen but was soon brought into the conversation.
I won't recap who was there because that was covered in the other thread so I will just try & cover the questions & answers.
First a confession/apology. I forgot to take the questions from the forum to the party. I had them written out at home & just walked off without them so a lot of the questions didn't get asked.
First we tackled Fred Jones. To be honest with you I was very suprised by the universal answer I got on this one.
At our last party, for the most part, everybody was ready for Freddy to move on down the road. I figured with the increase in his scoring & the fact that he is one of about 3 pacers who can create their own shot I thought that the group thought on him would change.
It didn't. There really wasn't one single Fred Jones fan there. Not everybody wanted to jettison him off of the team but there was nobody that stood up & said that he needed to be kept on the team. That was at Pizza King, now once we got to Perkins Ragnar, who had missed the original conversation, made it clear that he thought Fred had earned a place on the Pacers because of the way he performed after last seasons suspensions.
Honestly I was a little suprised that there was no real support for Fred. But I think a lot of it came down to his size. Nobody felt comfortable with his height.
This was an easy question to open up with because Uncle Buck had not yet made the party so we started out light.
By the time we were done with Fred, U.B. showed up. So now was the time to hit the more controversial topics.
David Harrison was first on the list & we tried to decide if he was a young Shaq or a bag of crap or somewhere in-between.
The answers we got really ranged from Shaq to Crap & very few were in-between on him.
Jose stated that David should start right now, no questions asked & be allowed to play through his mistakes. Jay@Pizza_King agreed with him.
Everybody thought that his DNP-CD's was horrible except for one person. Yes, you know who was the one person who not only thought he deserved DNP-CD's he also stated that he wanted Harrison traded. (BTW for those not guessing Uncle Buck was the culprit here)
Now there were a few who were concerened with his baskeball I.Q. & Hoops stated that he thought David was like Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. To which I had to remind everybody that there was another character based on the Jeckle & Hyde myth.
Jay@Pizza_King stated that for the team to do anything at any time this season David would have to develop.
Overall though the group was very supportive of David & most had hopes that he would be the teams center.
Then we tackled Jeff Foster.
This is where some of the great quotes of the night came from.
I started running this one counter clockwise to allow U.B. to have plenty of time to bloviate (look it up) & he did not dissapoint.
Because we learned from our lecture that Jeff Foster is a top 20 defender in the N.B.A., were not sure where in the top 20 but he is there. That he blocks out for rebounds (to which Jay@Pizza_King shot Iced Tea from his nose to the floor) & that he might have some slight weaknesses on the offensive end that he might need to work on in the future.
Well needless to say this was worth every penny of my gas money to make it down there. It was great, U.B. was standing on his chair pounding his fist into his hand yelling & pointing at the masses.
Ok, so that might be a slight exateration. But it was great he was alive for the first time since Ron Artest demanded a trade.
Anyway other than Ragnar U.B. was pretty much on his own on this one. While there were only a few of us present that didn't like Foster at all most people were ambivalent towards him. Again Ragnar was there for support because he likes old oven mits but nobody else would break down & cry if he was part of a trade. Ok, I just remembered Hoops stated he liked him & would part with about everybody else & keep Jeff with a couple of other.
I forgot one question Roaming Gnome asked before everybody else got there & we never really got good answer for was this.
Did Walsh mishandle Jermaine O'Neal when Artest made the trade demand? Not what you might think btw, he actually meant should the Pacers have been more forcefull with J.O. to keep his mouth shut about the whole "Ron goes or I do" thing.
It was a very interesting & provactive question that I don't feel we spent enough time or energy on.
Side note: You would think if we start at 17:00 & end at 02:30 we would/could talk about everything Pacers related. You would be wrong.
We did not even cover all of the players, never talked much about Bird & did not fully address everybody's expectations of the future.
Then we went on to the secon biggest suprise of the night for me anyway.
Rick Carlisle.
Other than U.B. everybody is ready for this to be his last year. Nobody was calling for his ouster on the spot, well Tim did say that if he screws with Grangers min. then he should be fired right there & right then. But other than U.B. everybody else felt that if we were going to develop some young players than Rick was NOT the coach for that. Even if we went with vets. everybody is pretty much getting tired of his coaching style.
I knew U.B. would be on Carlisle side but I really suprised that Rick's second biggest supporter there was me. What's sad is that I wouldn't mind seeing Rick move on either but I think he is a heck of a coach.
Shade basically summed it up by stating that Rick was starting to annoy him, to which Hicks agreed.
This took a lot of time as everyboyd also summed up their problems with the offense & or defense at this time.
I'll be honest with you at this point I don't remember what else we talked about at the Pizza King.
I know we did but I just can't remember.
It was great to meet Gyron & Pignash who came to the gathering but could not join us over at Perkins.
Tim also had to leave us as well because he had to get up & go to work. But he still thinks a lot of people read to much into Jamaal's supposed pouting so I wanted to make sure that was known.
We adjourned to Perkins to which we got a suprise guest, ABA days showed up for the party at this time. I thought he was in Iraq but he was still here with us. Gamble also came to the perkins part but thanks to Shade we knew he was coming.
The Perkins part of the party had a little more of an edgy feel to it because we tackled some sensitive issues & we talked about players that people had more differing opinions on.
Stephen Jackson is not a popular Pacer with some people. Jose started off the talk with just laying it out by saying he wants him gone.
Gamble thought that Jackson should be given more time & thought that he was getting a bad rap.
ABA days was perplexing to me because he doesn't like Jackson but says that he should be kept this season because he is afraid of to much change.
Hoops & Pizzaguy both Hate Jackson. From there it just got worse, nobody defended Jax & Roaming Gnome just made bus/truck sounds the rest of the night whenever Jax's name came out.
Ragnar couldn't stay with us long so before he left he wanted to talk about Jamaal Tinsley.
BTW if you've never met Ragnar allow me to show you a photo of him.
This is pretty much the look he gave anybody who uttered a disparaging word about Jamaal.
Needless to say ABAdays was unfazed by the look. Hoops & ABA pretty much think that Jamaal is the personification of evil on earth & want him gone more than they want Artest gone.
Everybody agreed that Jamaal is a problem because of his health. Even Ragnar had to admit that he is frustrated by his lack of being healthy.
To which another of the suprise quotes of the night came out.
"If Jamaal is not healthy for the playoffs, I want him gone". Ragnar 1-7-06
We then talked about Saras & this is where I will admit that I am totally going to blow whatever I say about this because I could not pay any attention to anything the rest of the night because of what young Hicks said at this point in time.
Saras reminded him of Reggie Miller.
REGGIE MILLER
Wow.
Well needless to say that was bad enough but then Hoops was all for letting Saras play 48 min. a game.
We then had a philisophical discussion about Damon Bailey & Saras & whether the NBA has descriminated against skilled players vs. athletic players. That was interesting.
Jay@Perkins_pies thinks that Saras is to bossy & I made the point that the guy just needs to shut the F up & play ball.
The group was split on him.
I know we talked about a lot of other stuff & I know that again I had to bring Dale Davis & Brad Miller both into the topics of discussion, which by law I am required to do.
We kind of got the feeling that Uncle Buck is not thrilled with J.O. When pressed on it he claims fandom, but everynow & then he would spit out bits & pieces of the truth & you could just tell.
I kept trying to give him ammo all night long & even give him excuses for Ron but he didn't bite.
Then after everybody left, when it was just Beleive in Blue, Hicks, U.B. & myself the most suprising revalation of all came out.
Uncle Buck admitted that no matter what, no matter how we could have changed the circumstance that Ron Artest was going to melt down.
He hoped for a brighter future for Ron but felt that he he was doomed to fail no matter what.
Needless to say I had to leave on that note because I got lightheaded.
But before I left Blue & Hicks picked San Antonion to repeate while U.B. & myself took the Pistons.
I had a great time. It was fun to finally meet Jay, Ragnar, Gyron & Pignash. Each added a lot to the discussion & I hope they weren't to bored with our little gathering.
Thanks again to Jose for putting this altogether.
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