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Thread: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Now this is my fear. This attitude is what kept them from getting something better for Ron 2 years ago than they probably will get now, and now the same mindset may cost them even more talent.
    Yeah I agree with you and Keg.


    If Pietrus ever was offered, we should have done that deal. Right then. Ron for Pietrus and filler.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    But Bird's the guys who's always saying "we've got to get equal value for him." Trouble is, Bird seems to be about the only guy other than UB who doesn't get it... He's only worth what others are offering in return - those (crappy) trades ARE equal value for a malcontent like Ron.

    The deals aren't going to improve over time. Pick one and move on.
    I think Bird has been all over the map talking about what we want in return. Find that first interview he did once he was back from Europe and compare it with this last one.

    As for who wanted to keep Artest here.... I have no idea. It's easy to point at Bird but then who really knows? And Artest has been a different animal from day one. Walsh has never been faced with a player so good who had this much baggage. And one real fact about Pacerland is that if you want out (or pretend you do) as soon as your desire/demand goes public you hit the trading block. That's a Walsh trait and the Artest situation is looking very similar in this regard.

    My guess: Walsh has over-valued Artest's market value for a good while and both he and Bird agreed they'd be better off to 'wait' than run with any 'pre December we don't Remember' trades. ...And they are still operating that way right now. Bluffing. Waiting. Smokescreening.

    Would Bird be this patient on his own? I have a hard time believing any human can be as patient as Donnie Walsh has been over the years.

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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    But Bird's the guys who's always saying "we've got to get equal value for him." Trouble is, Bird seems to be about the only guy other than UB who doesn't get it... He's only worth what others are offering in return - those (crappy) trades ARE equal value for a malcontent like Ron.

    The deals aren't going to improve over time. Pick one and move on.
    Jay, i don't know that I agree with this.

    Two things can happen in negotiations as a deadline approaches.

    1. The party making the purchase (of Ron) begins to see just how badly they need the product, and become more inclined to sweeten the pot as a deadline approaches.

    2. The party making the sale (the Pacers) become fearful of the deadline passing without a sale, so they drop the price.

    And if this were a one seller - one buyer environment, then the two options above pretty much sums it up.

    But it's not, it's a free market, so another, even more likely option comes into play.

    3. The party making the purchase realizes that other potential buyers could offer more, so they sweeten their offer.

    I believe as the deadline approaches, a few teams on the bubble will believe that Ron is the missing piece to get them into the playoffs, or to possibly make them a contender. At that point, someone will flinch and offer what Larry and Donnie believe is a much more reasonable trade.

    And just the converse of what Odom says above, I believe that as the deadline approaches, more and more teams will become more willing to downplay Ron's shortcomings because their focus will be entirely on what their lineup needs to push them over the hump.

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Jay, i don't know that I agree with this.

    Two things can happen in negotiations as a deadline approaches.

    1. The party making the purchase (of Ron) begins to see just how badly they need the product, and become more inclined to sweeten the pot as a deadline approaches.

    2. The party making the sale (the Pacers) become fearful of the deadline passing without a sale, so they drop the price.

    And if this were a one seller - one buyer environment, then the two options above pretty much sums it up.

    But it's not, it's a free market, so another, even more likely option comes into play.

    3. The party making the purchase realizes that other potential buyers could offer more, so they sweeten their offer.

    I believe as the deadline approaches, a few teams on the bubble will believe that Ron is the missing piece to get them into the playoffs, or to possibly make them a contender. At that point, someone will flinch and offer what Larry and Donnie believe is a much more reasonable trade.

    And just the converse of what Odom says above, I believe that as the deadline approaches, more and more teams will become more willing to downplay Ron's shortcomings because their focus will be entirely on what their lineup needs to push them over the hump.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

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    Thumbs up Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_Pacerfan
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    Fine. Take a long as you like. I've got the stomach for it.
    Only fools rush in...

    Me too.
    Are you older than average here too?
    A month from now teams will know what their plans are for NEXT season. There will be players becoming available that aren't right now. Teams that THINK they need him will know for sure by then, as they start their playoff pushes. A team that is RIGHT there, but a stopper away from beating the top teams is going to willing to trade a BUNCH more to get that guy if they think they've got a shot at it this year. ESPECIALLY for a team with a bunch of big contract decisions coming due. A team that knows they aren't going to be able to afford to resign all their good players is going to be much more willing to part with several of them to acquire the player to put them over the top this year.
    And we've got him!
    His value will go UP, just like a pitching in baseball at the trade deadline.
    Patience is a NICE part of getting older.
    We're going to do much better on this deal than most were thinking. We'll suffer a few losses now for not having anyone in return. But in the end we'll be better. ANd that's the playoffs........

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Me too.
    Are you older than average here too?
    Patience is a NICE part of getting older.
    We're going to do much better on this deal than most were thinking. We'll suffer a few losses now for not having anyone in return. But in the end we'll be better. ANd that's the playoffs........

    and I'm only 20 and willing to wait... shall be interesting to see what unfolds
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    If I could be convinced that Walsh/Bird would not somehow backpeddle & bring Ron back, would have no problem letting him sit & rot the rest of the year if we don't get what we want in trade.

    Then over the summer try & package him off in some blockbuster multiplayer multi team deal.

    But that is if I could be convinced.

    I don't think there's anything in the world that would lead them to let him come back to this team. That would be insane.
    I also think we lose MAJOR trade value if he isn't moved at the deadline. THAT is when teams are desperate and willing to act NOW. Get to the offseason and that urgency is gone.
    He'll be gone on the 23d for sure.
    If not before.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Peck, I don't get you at all on this. How in the world do you even remotely expect Ron to be let back? The bridges have been burned already. Walsh, JO, Bird have all said it's over.

    Not to mention his TEAMMATES have said 'it's over'!!!!!!
    No sane GM in the world would let that guy back in the lockerroom.
    He's locked out now right?

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    Jay, i don't know that I agree with this.

    Two things can happen in negotiations as a deadline approaches.

    1. The party making the purchase (of Ron) begins to see just how badly they need the product, and become more inclined to sweeten the pot as a deadline approaches.

    2. The party making the sale (the Pacers) become fearful of the deadline passing without a sale, so they drop the price.

    And if this were a one seller - one buyer environment, then the two options above pretty much sums it up.

    But it's not, it's a free market, so another, even more likely option comes into play.

    3. The party making the purchase realizes that other potential buyers could offer more, so they sweeten their offer.

    I believe as the deadline approaches, a few teams on the bubble will believe that Ron is the missing piece to get them into the playoffs, or to possibly make them a contender. At that point, someone will flinch and offer what Larry and Donnie believe is a much more reasonable trade.

    And just the converse of what Odom says above, I believe that as the deadline approaches, more and more teams will become more willing to downplay Ron's shortcomings because their focus will be entirely on what their lineup needs to push them over the hump.

    Exactly.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Peck, I don't get you at all on this. How in the world do you even remotely expect Ron to be let back? The bridges have been burned already. Walsh, JO, Bird have all said it's over.
    You can rebuild bridges. I can think of several scenarios where Ron would be back in a Pacer uniform. Totally unlikely yes, but possible.

    One for instant, something terrible happens that makes others have sympathy for Ron. (Use your imagination) Most then agree that the best thing for Ron would be for him to be back in uniform as quick as possible. Of course under a scenario like that even Peck and Diamond Dave would have sympathy.

    Like I said, totally unlikely but possible.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    You can rebuild bridges. I can think of several scenarios where Ron would be back in a Pacer uniform. Totally unlikely yes, but possible.

    One for instant, something terrible happens that makes others have sympathy for Ron. (Use your imagination) Most then agree that the best thing for Ron would be for him to be back in uniform as quick as possible. Of course under a scenario like that even Peck and Diamond Dave would have sympathy.

    Like I said, totally unlikely but possible.
    I'm saving this for my conspiracy file. If anything does happens, look far a knock on your door.

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    I'm saving this for my conspiracy file. If anything does happens, look far a knock on your door.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  13. #38
    Hall of Famers FrenchConnection's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    I think the problem here is that in any of the rumored trades, a contending team would have to give up a contributing player. As far as I can remember, most recent trades involving a major talent made during the season have been very lopsided for this very reason. Can Golden State make a playoff push with Artest is this meant losing Diogu or Murphy? Most Laker fans are salivating over a front line with Artest AND Odom. So the Pacers will have to take young players who are not contributing much to their team in a sigificant way or players with less talent and/or really bad contracts (DunDun anyone). I know that all this has been said before, but some people think that if they wait until the deadline a major talent will become available but I think that this is just not the case. And I hope that Donnie does not move Artest to a non-contending team (Atlanta, Toronto, Orlando etc...), because you just know that they would "Rasheed" him for expiring contracts to whoever ends up being our first round opponent.

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