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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...601070458/1088

    January 7, 2006

    Bird expects to trade with 1 team
    Pacers president thinks deal for Artest most likely will bring 1 or 2 players

    By Mark Montieth

    Larry Bird was cool in the clutch as a player and dramatically dispassionate as a coach. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that he's not panicking as a team president.

    While trade speculation involving Ron Artest swirls through the NBA, Bird and Indiana Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh calmly work the phones. They plan to make a deal someday, but can't say when someday might come. The Pacers have gone 7-6 since Artest last played Dec. 6.

    "We're talking to teams, but to say we're going to put a date on it, we're not," Bird said in a telelphone interview Friday. "We're getting some good offers, but we're talking about an All-Star player.

    "We'd like for it to be over with so Ron can get back to playing and we can get going. But from the beginning our strategy has been that a trade has to be right for our franchise. To me it's like Ronnie's injured."

    Bird said he's open to trading for a player at any position. The most likely scenario is obtaining one or two players for Artest, as opposed to a larger deal involving other Pacers. Bird doesn't rule out any possibility.

    "What's interesting is that you'll be talking about the Ronnie trade and (other teams) bring up other players," Bird said.

    "I can't guarantee all our guys are going to be here, but the way we've been talking it seems like it will be a one-player-for-one or one-for-two trade. We'd like to keep all of our players."

    Bird and Walsh believe their options will improve as the Feb. 23 trade deadline approaches, as teams get a better handle on their prospects for this and future seasons.

    "This is what I expected," Bird said. "It could take a lot longer. Once you get to February, teams know what they're going after."
    ----------

    Like I've been warning those with no patience, expect a deadline deal.

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    Member NorCal_Pacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Fine. Take a long as you like. I've got the stomach for it.
    Only fools rush in...
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    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_Pacerfan
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    Fine. Take a long as you like. I've got the stomach for it.
    Only fools rush in...

    Me too.
    Are you older than average here too?
    A month from now teams will know what their plans are for NEXT season. There will be players becoming available that aren't right now. Teams that THINK they need him will know for sure by then, as they start their playoff pushes. A team that is RIGHT there, but a stopper away from beating the top teams is going to willing to trade a BUNCH more to get that guy if they think they've got a shot at it this year. ESPECIALLY for a team with a bunch of big contract decisions coming due. A team that knows they aren't going to be able to afford to resign all their good players is going to be much more willing to part with several of them to acquire the player to put them over the top this year.
    And we've got him!
    His value will go UP, just like a pitching in baseball at the trade deadline.
    Patience is a NICE part of getting older.
    We're going to do much better on this deal than most were thinking. We'll suffer a few losses now for not having anyone in return. But in the end we'll be better. ANd that's the playoffs........

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Me too.
    Are you older than average here too?
    Patience is a NICE part of getting older.
    We're going to do much better on this deal than most were thinking. We'll suffer a few losses now for not having anyone in return. But in the end we'll be better. ANd that's the playoffs........

    and I'm only 20 and willing to wait... shall be interesting to see what unfolds
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...601070458/1088

    Bird and Walsh believe their options will improve as the Feb. 23 trade deadline approaches, as teams get a better handle on their prospects for this and future seasons.

    "This is what I expected," Bird said. "It could take a lot longer. Once you get to February, teams know what they're going after."
    ----------

    Like I've been warning those with no patience, expect a deadline deal.
    Great, just 47 more days til the deadline!

  6. #6
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Pessimist Translation:
    "We're not getting offered anything but crap for Artest. It's awful. We're hearing from a lot of teams that would like to get some other team's player and they don't have anything to offer so they want to make it a multi-team trade where we end up with crap so they can get their player and Artest ends up on a third team. If we're going to do that then we might as well deal directly so at least we can get the best player being offered.

    But we're still not getting offered what we want... or can even stomach. We'll see what happens if these teams realize we'll sit his butt and write this season off if we have to. We can wait. Somebody will hopefully get weak in the knees and start wondering "what if?" and give us a call... hopefully... maybe... one of these days...."


    Optimist translation:
    "We've got a deal almost done. I just need to put a smokescreen out there to make sure this deal is the best we're going to get and then by Monday night, he's gone and we're a contender again. Detroit will no longer be a problem.... except for the loss of gate revenue because we'll be sweeping them all and only playing 4 games in each series"

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    Banned GetOdom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Sorry, but I don't get what the hell Bird or Walsh are doing.

    People don't trade for Artest because of his attitude it has nothing to do with the way he plays...

    I'm not sure but I guess in the deadline teams will realize how a good man Artest is? thats what Bird and Walsh seem to think...


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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by GetOdom
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    Sorry, but I don't get what the hell Bird or Walsh are doing.

    People don't trade for Artest because of his attitude it has nothing to do with the way he plays...

    I'm not sure but I guess in the deadline teams will realize how a good man Artest is? thats what Bird and Walsh seem to think...

    Teams realize how good Ron is now. However most trades during the season are made just before the trade deadline. Teams that don't have a chance will usually not make a trade. Teams that are on the bubble on making the playoffs, or that think they have a shot at winning it all are the teams that generally make trades.

    Teams usually just won't make their best offers until the last moment. That's I think 5 or 6 pm Eastern time on Feb 23rd.

    There's usually a couple teams that will make a trade in the very last hour.

    So like I keep telling everyone, be prepared to wait.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    If I could be convinced that Walsh/Bird would not somehow backpeddle & bring Ron back, would have no problem letting him sit & rot the rest of the year if we don't get what we want in trade.

    Then over the summer try & package him off in some blockbuster multiplayer multi team deal.

    But that is if I could be convinced.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    If I could be convinced that Walsh/Bird would not somehow backpeddle & bring Ron back, would have no problem letting him sit & rot the rest of the year if we don't get what we want in trade.

    Then over the summer try & package him off in some blockbuster multiplayer multi team deal.

    But that is if I could be convinced.
    Peck, I don't get you at all on this. How in the world do you even remotely expect Ron to be let back? The bridges have been burned already. Walsh, JO, Bird have all said it's over.

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    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    If I could be convinced that Walsh/Bird would not somehow backpeddle & bring Ron back, would have no problem letting him sit & rot the rest of the year if we don't get what we want in trade.

    Then over the summer try & package him off in some blockbuster multiplayer multi team deal.

    But that is if I could be convinced.

    I don't think there's anything in the world that would lead them to let him come back to this team. That would be insane.
    I also think we lose MAJOR trade value if he isn't moved at the deadline. THAT is when teams are desperate and willing to act NOW. Get to the offseason and that urgency is gone.
    He'll be gone on the 23d for sure.
    If not before.

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    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Pessimist Translation:
    "We're not getting offered anything but crap for Artest. It's awful. We're hearing from a lot of teams that would like to get some other team's player and they don't have anything to offer so they want to make it a multi-team trade where we end up with crap so they can get their player and Artest ends up on a third team. If we're going to do that then we might as well deal directly so at least we can get the best player being offered.

    But we're still not getting offered what we want... or can even stomach. We'll see what happens if these teams realize we'll sit his butt and write this season off if we have to. We can wait. Somebody will hopefully get weak in the knees and start wondering "what if?" and give us a call... hopefully... maybe... one of these days...."
    unfortunately, i'm leaning towards this interpretation. quite simply, if there had been a good offer, i'd expect a trade to be done by now.

    remember the initial dismay when artest first made his trade demands? when we all figured we'd be lucky to find a taker? it would probably help to revisit those feelings now. the media has thrown out some big names - lamar odom, pietrus & murphy - but were they really offered? or would it have been the usual crap - players with large contracts, or expiring deals coupled with mid-range to low picks.

    btw, if bird is correct - that we only plan to trade artest and no other pacer players - then that severely limits the kind of deal we can make. i think he said that mostly to reassure the current players.

    one thing bird said is certainly true. the trade deadline will no doubt bring better offers. teams will start to feel public pressure to make the playoffs, and no doubt some of them will be willing to give us what we want. by now, i'm quite sure we're asking for young prospects/picks. too bad isiah already traded most of the knicks' future picks - he's one gm who will be feeling the pressure yet again.

    so, stand firm, larry and donnie. we have nothing to lose but our future. i doubt we'd be in any position to contend this season anyway.

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute
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    unfortunately, i'm leaning towards this interpretation. quite simply, if there had been a good offer, i'd expect a trade to be done by now.

    remember the initial dismay when artest first made his trade demands? when we all figured we'd be lucky to find a taker? it would probably help to revisit those feelings now. the media has thrown out some big names - lamar odom, pietrus & murphy - but were they really offered? or would it have been the usual crap - players with large contracts, or expiring deals coupled with mid-range to low picks.

    btw, if bird is correct - that we only plan to trade artest and no other pacer players - then that severely limits the kind of deal we can make. i think he said that mostly to reassure the current players.

    one thing bird said is certainly true. the trade deadline will no doubt bring better offers. teams will start to feel public pressure to make the playoffs, and no doubt some of them will be willing to give us what we want. by now, i'm quite sure we're asking for young prospects/picks. too bad isiah already traded most of the knicks' future picks - he's one gm who will be feeling the pressure yet again.

    so, stand firm, larry and donnie. we have nothing to lose but our future. i doubt we'd be in any position to contend this season anyway.
    That is what I saw in the article that worries me. If only Ron then we can only take back his 6-7 mil $ contract value....and if it is spread over 2 players that is minimum wages and if it is 1 player it STILL= a lesser talent.

    Actually, if you read the article he is just stating the same things they have always said only a different way.
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bird
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    We're getting some good offers, but we're talking about an All-Star player.
    Please, take your time.

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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Non story. Bird leaves every conceivable option open, as he should.

    Agreed that the Pacers offers have obviously not been sensational, or we would have grabbed one. I still think the Pacers are holding out hope for Al Harrington.

    It seems to me that this phone conversation from Bird is intended for only audience: The players. He wants to quiet trade rumors which have mentioned half the players on the team.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    I agree with 6th man. Non story.

    Of course Bird is going to say that other Pacers players are unlikely to be included, you have to say that to keep the distractions to a minimum.


    Certainly a trade could happen at any time, but I sense in the past few days a couple of different deals were close and they fell apart, so in some ways things are back to what they were maybe 5 days ago.

    My position on timing has been the same all along. Whenever they get a deal they like they should pull the trigger. Trades shape a franchise for many years, they are much more important than a couple of months of games.

    If other teams think the Pacers are really wanting a deal right now, they will low-vball, but if they read these public comments from Bird and Walsh they might realize they are going to be patient.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    I have trade fatigue.
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  18. #18
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    non story? but we were expecting an ARTEST TRADED article!! it's like being told to watch out for an gigantic explosion, and when the time comes there's not even a tiny firecracker in sight.

    now, granted that the pacers brass never said a trade was imminent or anything like that. the hype after all was mostly fed by the media and by internet rumors. but i'll bet i'm not the only one hereabouts who was on tenterhooks the whole day

    in fact, i have a feeling that the star was expecting a trade to go down too, and when it became clear that nothing of the sort was happening, they must have hurriedly called up bird to fish for a story, any story. bird naturally trotted out the company line, and hence, that bland little article was the result.

    anyway, i think i've gotten it out of my system now to settle in and wait for the trade deadline...

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    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Ithink if you read the Larry Bird comments again , all he is doing is trying to have Pacer players realx and not worry about being traded.

    Bird said he's open to trading for a player at any position. The most likely scenario is obtaining one or two players for Artest, as opposed to a larger deal involving other Pacers. Bird doesn't rule out any possibility.

    "What's interesting is that you'll be talking about the Ronnie trade and (other teams) bring up other players," Bird said.

    "I can't guarantee all our guys are going to be here, but the way we've been talking it seems like it will be a one-player-for-one or one-for-two trade. We'd like to keep all of our players."

    I re-read it this morning and all I read is Ron will be traded , at this point no idea where or for what. Its just a comfort piece for Pacer player comment.

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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    First of all, UB's right. Bird is saying this simply to try and get the players focused on playing and not worrying about getting traded. That tells me they at least realize focus is a problem, which is progress.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I don't see trade offers getting significantly better by the deadline. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see teams think they can get Ron for less, because we're up against the wall. Obviously we haven't gotten a good offer for him, because we would have taken it by now.

    I'm really starting to fear that Donnie and Larry have fallen into the "equal value" trap, the same one that has kept Ron on this team for the last 2 years.
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I know I'm in the minority, but I don't see trade offers getting significantly better by the deadline. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see teams think they can get Ron for less, because we're up against the wall. Obviously we haven't gotten a good offer for him, because we would have taken it by now.

    I'm really starting to fear that Donnie and Larry have fallen into the "equal value" trap, the same one that has kept Ron on this team for the last 2 years.
    Now this is my fear. This attitude is what kept them from getting something better for Ron 2 years ago than they probably will get now, and now the same mindset may cost them even more talent. Unless this team magically starts getting really hot as it stands, I will be emotionally withdrawn from this team if the trade deadline passes and Ron's still here. The season will have ended for me.

  22. #22
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Now this is my fear. This attitude is what kept them from getting something better for Ron 2 years ago than they probably will get now, and now the same mindset may cost them even more talent.
    Yeah I agree with you and Keg.


    If Pietrus ever was offered, we should have done that deal. Right then. Ron for Pietrus and filler.
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  23. #23
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Its happened before - star / disuprtive player is benched, suspended, whatever. Team struggles because they are shorthanded. Fans begin demanding the "martyr" return, certain players begin hinting that management/ coaching staff isn't putting their best team on the court.

    Major controversy. Player begins making public comments about wanting to return and "I'm a changed man, honest." Player returns; the team wins a few games and then all hell breaks loose.

    If we believe this management has the balls to leave Ron on the suspended/ inactive list where he belongs, that's one story. But I don't believe they're strong enough to do that, either.

    This team has always looked better "on paper" anyway.

    + + + + + + + + + +

    By the way, some of us believe the Pacers have been waiting since the summer of 2004 for a decent, any decent, trade for Artest. And if they had ever gotten one, they would've pulled the trigger so fast...

    I keep thinking Larry Bird is letting his ego get in the way of a deal. As for Donnie, he's always cautious and conservative on these types of things, especially in-season.
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    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I keep thinking Larry Bird is letting his ego get in the way of a deal.
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    Default Re: Star}Bird expects to trade with 1 team

    No worries here!

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