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Thread: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

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    Default Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    After reading the thread about Harrison and Rick's tendency not to play the younger players, I have these questions:

    1. If the current Primoz Bezec were back on our team today, would he start? Would he solve our center problems?

    2. Did Indy make a mistake by not playing Primoz enough?

    3. Did we make a mistake allowing him to be taken in the expansion draft?

    Or . . . do you guys think he would still mostly sit if he were on the Pacers?

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    I think Rick would start Anthony Johnson at center before Primoz if he were still here...

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    After reading the thread about Harrison and Rick's tendency not to play the younger players, I have these questions:

    1. If the current Primoz Bezec were back on our team today, would he start? Would he solve our center problems?

    2. Did Indy make a mistake by not playing Primoz enough?

    3. Did we make a mistake allowing him to be taken in the expansion draft?

    Or . . . do you guys think he would still mostly sit if he were on the Pacers?
    1. Possibly, but only due to the suspensions last year. Otherwise, Primoz would not be the C this year because he would not have had a chance to develop.
    2. Hindsight is 20-20. It looks like it was a mistake. I think Primoz is a better C than Jeff Foster if you consider his offensive game and his size. Primoz is also a bit younger and is still improving. They have totally different games, but I would do a straight up trade for him today.
    3. Yes. No doubt about that. We need a C and we need more scoring. Primoz could provide that.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Why do I get the feeling we will have this same thread about Harrison in a few years
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Why do I get the feeling we will have this same thread about Harrison in a few years
    I have the same concern. That's the point of the thread.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    I have the same concern. That's the point of the thread.
    Oops. Your questions, 2 and 3 are big yes's.

    I haven't seen Primoz in CHA quite enough to make a clear call on 1. He would help the situation A LOT, I know that. We need scoring. Solve it? I dunno.
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Rick hates playing rookies just like Larry Brown difference is Larry Brown has to play rookies now because he has no choice but Rick is in a situation were he could decide if he wants to play vet's or rookies well you know the answer to that question already.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    1. If the current Primoz Bezec were back on our team today, would he start? Would he solve our center problems?

    2. Did Indy make a mistake by not playing Primoz enough?

    3. Did we make a mistake allowing him to be taken in the expansion draft?
    1. It is possible, but lets be real...Primoz has been forced to play because he is on a poor team. The Pacers are not a poor team and the expectations on him would be higher in Indy. Further, he would be forced to play in an offense where he wouldn't be expected to score and would basically only score when he got opportunity points. Primoz has been playing on a team where he is the second or third option, something he'd never experience in Indy. If Samaki Walker were to get a starting job in Atlanta and put up 11/6 (Primoz's current numbers) would anyone really be that surprised?

    2. Absolutely not. We used our third string center the way every team around the league does..we used him to battle with our starters and reserves in practice and elevate their game. There are lots of members on this board that think that rookies are entitled to lots and lots of playing time to help them develop, but lets be real...
    A) Rookies don't help teams as much on the floor as they do behind the scenes.
    B) Playing a rookie means not playing a veteran and that lack of experience is a liability.
    C) If you're a poor team, say the NO/OK Hornets, the best thing you can do is put Chris Paul out there every night and give him trial-by-fire..you have to..but when you have a team that can win 61 games or you have a team that should win 50+..you have the luxury of not forcing rookies in to a trial-by-fire situation.
    D) Rookies are not used to the length of the NBA season. Continual playing time can add the probability of injury in the first season of a players career..gradually added responsibilities are important to development.

    3. Let's be clear on this too..the Pacers were forced to add players names to the list of players that the Bobcats could then select from. Every team had to put their 3rd stringers on the list and at the time we had guards we wanted to keep and were happy with the Foster/Pollard duo. It is not managment's fault that we lost this guy, he just happened to be someone the Bobcats were interested in. Theres no finger pointing here and if we'd lost Fred Jones I think we'd be in worse shape than losing Primoz.

    4. Your final question is about whether he'd sit...here's the best answer to that: He'd sit if he played poorly in practice, didn't know the plays, showed very little heart/emotion, and then in turn played poorly in game situations. This is exactly why David Harrison doesn't play now. I cannot speak for Primoz' work ethic, but I can tell you that if it were anything like DH Primoz would be riding pine.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLemonSong
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    3. It is not managment's fault that we lost this guy, he just happened to be someone the Bobcats were interested in. Theres no finger pointing here and if we'd lost Fred Jones I think we'd be in worse shape than losing Primoz.
    One thing about letting a center go as opposed to an undersized shooting guard (or any guard (besides a major piece of your core) for that matter)... Which one would be easier to replace?

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLemonSong
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    1. It is possible, but lets be real...Primoz has been forced to play because he is on a poor team. The Pacers are not a poor team and the expectations on him would be higher in Indy. Further, he would be forced to play in an offense where he wouldn't be expected to score and would basically only score when he got opportunity points. Primoz has been playing on a team where he is the second or third option, something he'd never experience in Indy. If Samaki Walker were to get a starting job in Atlanta and put up 11/6 (Primoz's current numbers) would anyone really be that surprised?

    2. Absolutely not. We used our third string center the way every team around the league does..we used him to battle with our starters and reserves in practice and elevate their game. There are lots of members on this board that think that rookies are entitled to lots and lots of playing time to help them develop, but lets be real...
    A) Rookies don't help teams as much on the floor as they do behind the scenes.
    B) Playing a rookie means not playing a veteran and that lack of experience is a liability.
    C) If you're a poor team, say the NO/OK Hornets, the best thing you can do is put Chris Paul out there every night and give him trial-by-fire..you have to..but when you have a team that can win 61 games or you have a team that should win 50+..you have the luxury of not forcing rookies in to a trial-by-fire situation.
    D) Rookies are not used to the length of the NBA season. Continual playing time can add the probability of injury in the first season of a players career..gradually added responsibilities are important to development.

    3. Let's be clear on this too..the Pacers were forced to add players names to the list of players that the Bobcats could then select from. Every team had to put their 3rd stringers on the list and at the time we had guards we wanted to keep and were happy with the Foster/Pollard duo. It is not managment's fault that we lost this guy, he just happened to be someone the Bobcats were interested in. Theres no finger pointing here and if we'd lost Fred Jones I think we'd be in worse shape than losing Primoz.

    4. Your final question is about whether he'd sit...here's the best answer to that: He'd sit if he played poorly in practice, didn't know the plays, showed very little heart/emotion, and then in turn played poorly in game situations. This is exactly why David Harrison doesn't play now. I cannot speak for Primoz' work ethic, but I can tell you that if it were anything like DH Primoz would be riding pine.
    1. Primoz is not just playing because of a lack of good player. This is a frontcourt that also features Sean May, Melvin Ely, and Emeka Okafor. Primoz is starting and playing 26 minutes a game, that wouldn't happen if he was no good.

    2. What do we have to lose by allowing them to develop? In Primoz's last year here, we certainly could have used his scoring in the playoffs. That homecourt advantage we won by mustering out 61 wins didn't help us anyway.

    3. Hasn't Donnie himself admitted that not protecting Primoz was a mistake? I seem to remember something like that.

    4. How do you know this is the case with DH? I want proof. You are making stuff up.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Don't get me started...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Don't get me started...
    I'm bored...
    Let's hear it. I like a good Friday rant!

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I'm bored...
    Let's hear it. I like a good Friday rant!

    -Bball

    I second that motion.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    1. Primoz is not just playing because of a lack of good player. This is a frontcourt that also features Sean May, Melvin Ely, and Emeka Okafor. Primoz is starting and playing 26 minutes a game, that wouldn't happen if he was no good.

    2. What do we have to lose by allowing them to develop? In Primoz's last year here, we certainly could have used his scoring in the playoffs. That homecourt advantage we won by mustering out 61 wins didn't help us anyway.

    3. Hasn't Donnie himself admitted that not protecting Primoz was a mistake? I seem to remember something like that.

    4. How do you know this is the case with DH? I want proof. You are making stuff up.
    1- Oh, yah you're right..cuz Sean May and Melvin Ely are virtuosic..if Primoz wasn't a stellar future all-star caliber player, how could he ever hope to get minutes over May or Ely?! LOL!
    2- What do you we have to lose? GAMES! Inexperience is a liability and experience is to be gained gradually!
    3- I can agree that bigs are usually more important than guards and was it a "mistake" well, who knows...the expansion draft isn't something that teams usually account for and mishandling it is probably to be expected...I'll recant at least some of my arguement on this count.

    4- Watch David on the bench. As was recently pointed out he rarely ever joins the huddle but along with Pollard is yucking it up about the entertainment on the floor during time outs. What does that indicate to you? Also, while it seems there are a lot of Carlisle haters on this board I stand firm in my belief that he is an excellent coach and I therefore trust his judgement. If DH were playing well in practice, Carlisle would play him! Every time (without more than perhaps one or two exceptions) David has gone out and committed fouls like they were going out of style! This kid has potential, true, but he hasn't shown me that he is capable of improving and that is a work ethic problem. Players with potential that don't improve..say Kwame Brown for example..don't improve for just one reason: they don't work hard to improve their game. Am I making this stuff up? Well, I'm not going to claim I'm some team insider but I see what I see...Kwame=DH.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    4. You said you knew exactly that was the case with David. Just as I thought, you were making stuff up.

    2. "What do you we have to lose? GAMES! "

    Rick Carlisle should inscribe this upon his forehead. He can't see past one game.

    1. Ely is pretty good and May was a high draft pick and interesting prospect. Hell, I'm not sure if a May/Ely combo is any worse than Cro/Foster.
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Hell, I'm not sure if a May/Ely combo is any worse than Cro/Foster.
    Any worse? If what we've seen since his surgery is indicative of the future, I'd do that trade in a second!
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Don't get me started...


    First of all, Melvin Ely is better than Cro, Foster, and Pollard. Half the teams in the league would love to have him as their starting center, including us. And yet, he plays behind Primoz, because he's one of the few legit 5's in the league.

    Primoz is a poor man's Brad Miller. He doesn't have Brad's passing skills, but he has good feet, a reliable 18-foot jumper, and a solid low center of gravity to block out with. Plus, he doesn't have Brad's history with injuries.

    Would he be ideal here? Probably not. I go back and forth on if JO would be better off paired with a high-post or low-post center, but most of the time I think he does need a bruiser down low. Sure, his offensive game benefited playing off Brad, but that had more to do with Brad's passing skills than his drawing attention away from the basket. Plus, we got killed on the boards.

    Did we do the right thing leaving him unprotected? At the time, as much as I hated it, I felt we did, because the choice was between him and Reggie. In retrospect, we should have let Charlotte have Freddie instead. Even if PB isn't ideal, he's a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

    Would Rick play him? He would have gotten a lot of PT last year, assuming he wouldn't have "rode together" with Ronnie. With Jeff out at the beginning of the year, I think he easily would have gotten a stranglehold on the starting spot. Even if circumstances were different, I think Rick would play him. He's smart, he's been around 4 years, and he's a credible offensive option in the post.
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    4. You said you knew exactly that was the case with David. Just as I thought, you were making stuff up.

    2. "What do you we have to lose? GAMES! "

    Rick Carlisle should inscribe this upon his forehead. He can't see past one game.

    1. Ely is pretty good and May was a high draft pick and interesting prospect. Hell, I'm not sure if a May/Ely combo is any worse than Cro/Foster.
    I'm sorry you could not understand or were confused by my typographical error. Please allow me to correct it for you. That sentance should have read "What do we have to lose? GAMES!" That should make it clearer for you and alleviate your apparent confusion.

    Ely=decent..but he's not amazing by any means. I'd rather have Foster.

    I don't need to make anything up. I guess David has shown you some prodigious talent or something, but all I've seen the kid do is foul people. He's not fouling because he wants to, he's fouling because he HAS TO! Dudes fly by him because he is slow and less talented. You can slurp this kid all you want, but he's never shown me that he has the ability to play major minutes and he's certainly never shown abilities above and beyond Jeff Foster, Scot Pollard, or even AC. He's just another player that has potential he isn't living up to...I think one day he could become a solid role player and maybe work up to 20 min. per game, but he hasn't shown that he's improved from last season AT ALL!

    Hate on Carlisle if thats your favorite person to point fingers at, but I think he's done a great job with this team and will continue to do a great job for our franchise!

    I'm sure next week there will be a similar "Why did we let Jamison Brewer go?" type post.

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    ^ I didn't even notice your error, I read it as you intended.
    He'd sit if he played poorly in practice, didn't know the plays, showed very little heart/emotion, and then in turn played poorly in game situations. This is exactly why David Harrison doesn't play now.
    If you can't prove all that, then you made it up. Sorry man.
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Soup, you forgot one thing. Don't you remember how terrible Harrison looked last year? It was so obvious from his play you knew he was stiff, right?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Soup, you forgot one thing. Don't you remember how terrible Harrison looked last year? It was so obvious from his play you knew he was stiff, right?
    Yup, the fact that he was stealing minutes from John Edwards had me livid.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    What's really crazy is it must have only been a dream. I thought I remember people being pretty excited about the way Harrison was playing until he got hurt. Was I dreaming or did the man show something that had the majority of the folks here excited?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    What's really crazy is it must have only been a dream. I thought I remember people being pretty excited about the way Harrison was playing until he got hurt. Was I dreaming or did the man show something that had the majority of the folks here excited?
    You would be correct. Several picked him as their favorite player, if I remember right.
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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    I just re-read an old post somewhere in which both Peck and I said Harrison was already our favorite Pacer.

    Maybe some of you Johnny-come-lately naysayers should re-read some of those threads, because you clearly haven't watched David play enough to recognize what he brings to the table. And it will never be measured in stats, so dig out some old game film instead of reading box scores. Clearly you wouldn't want Harrison on your fantasy team but you would like him on your real team.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Primoz and Rick Playing Youngsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I just re-read an old post somewhere in which both Peck and I said Harrison was already our favorite Pacer.

    Maybe some of you Johnny-come-lately naysayers should re-read some of those threads, because you clearly haven't watched David play enough to recognize what he brings to the table. And it will never be measured in stats, so dig out some old game film instead of reading box scores. Clearly you wouldn't want Harrison on your fantasy team but you would like him on your real team.
    Very nice!

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