Holiday logistics had me watch the last two games on Tivo today (Thursday). The overriding takeway from these two games is how bad Jackson is--not just with shot selection but also with attitude and defensive focus. Even the opposing commentators--for both games--were constantly talking about how Jackson hurt the Pacers.
But this thread is about why I think Jackson especially stands out in our minds as not being good for the team: because this is an Indiana club. This also makes Tinsley, IMO, especially trying to many of us on the board. Those guys would not stand out nearly as clearly in Philly, L.A., Dallas or other Western teams with more flash and less fundamentals.
Therefore, I am going to place an "Indiana rating" for each of our players and see what you guys think. Feel free to give your own rating. I will include Artest in the list because I think he was complex for Indiana fans, gaining high marks in some areas and low in others. I'll also include Reggie Miller, Dale Davis and James Jones (the Pacers for calender year 2005) which makes for interesting comparisons.
(Caveat: I am not from Indiana, so I apologize for the perception of speaking for the state. It's just my own comments. I do have one small Indiana claim: my Dad played at UCLA for one of the great legends from Indiana--John Wooden. I was raised on his high standards.)
An "Indiana rating" consists of the following components:
1. Fundamentally sound (Boxing out, no fancy risks, good shooting form)
2. Strong work ethic
3. Team before self
4. Loves defense
5. Makes his free throws (i.e. works at it)
6. Good attitude on the court
7. Person of character off the court
Stephen Jackson: Total Indiana rating: C-
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: D
4. Loves defense: C
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: F
7. Person of character off court: C (went down after Artest comments)
Jamaal Tinsley: Total Indiana rating: C
1. Fundamentally sound: C
2. Strong work ethic: C
3. Team before self: C
4. Loves defense: D
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: C
7. Person of character off court: B
Jermaine O'Neal. Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B (Boxing out comes to mind)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: B (Passing still needs improvement)
4. Loves defense: A-
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: A
Jeff Foster: Total Indiana rating: B
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (Good shooting form but still doesn't work!)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: F
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Austin Croshere: Total Indiana rating: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B+
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Ron Artest: Total Indiana rating: B- (but depends on the month)
1. Fundamentally sound: B+ (Everything but boxing out)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: C (Depends on the month)
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: B (Depends on the month)
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: D (Depends on the month)
Anthony Johnson: Total Indiana rating: A-
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: A-
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Danny Granger: Total Indiana Rating: A-
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (This will be an A soon)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Sarunas Jasekevicus: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B (Still a little too fancy for Indie liking. Should improve.)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: C
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Fred Jones: Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: B
4. Loves defense: A-
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
David Harrison: Total Indiana rating: B-
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: C
3. Team before self: B
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: C- --Picture breaker
Scott Pollard: Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
James Jones: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Reggie Miller: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (Again, boxing out the only slight weakness)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Dale Davis: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: D
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
I'm going to leave out Gill and Samaki because of no playing time. Same goes for Jon Edwards. That leaves us with the following summary:
The "Indiana Rating" for 2005 Indiana Pacers:
Stephen Jackson: C-
Jamaal Tinsley: C
Jermaine O'Neal: B+
Jeff Foster: B
Austin Croshere: A
Ron Artest: B-
Anthony Johnson: A-
Sarunas Jasekevicus: B+
Fred Jones: B+
Danny Granger: A-
David Harrison: B-
Scott Pollard: B+
James Jones: A
Reggie Miller: A
Dale Davis: B+
Interesting to think about. We have let go two high rated Indiana players (Davis and JJ) and are about to trade, begrudgingly, a low-rated player (Artest). Perhaps TPTB would do well to make its future trades and picks based on an Indiana rating. Is it possible that we have lost our way the past few years?
--McKeyFan
But this thread is about why I think Jackson especially stands out in our minds as not being good for the team: because this is an Indiana club. This also makes Tinsley, IMO, especially trying to many of us on the board. Those guys would not stand out nearly as clearly in Philly, L.A., Dallas or other Western teams with more flash and less fundamentals.
Therefore, I am going to place an "Indiana rating" for each of our players and see what you guys think. Feel free to give your own rating. I will include Artest in the list because I think he was complex for Indiana fans, gaining high marks in some areas and low in others. I'll also include Reggie Miller, Dale Davis and James Jones (the Pacers for calender year 2005) which makes for interesting comparisons.
(Caveat: I am not from Indiana, so I apologize for the perception of speaking for the state. It's just my own comments. I do have one small Indiana claim: my Dad played at UCLA for one of the great legends from Indiana--John Wooden. I was raised on his high standards.)
An "Indiana rating" consists of the following components:
1. Fundamentally sound (Boxing out, no fancy risks, good shooting form)
2. Strong work ethic
3. Team before self
4. Loves defense
5. Makes his free throws (i.e. works at it)
6. Good attitude on the court
7. Person of character off the court
Stephen Jackson: Total Indiana rating: C-
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: D
4. Loves defense: C
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: F
7. Person of character off court: C (went down after Artest comments)
Jamaal Tinsley: Total Indiana rating: C
1. Fundamentally sound: C
2. Strong work ethic: C
3. Team before self: C
4. Loves defense: D
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: C
7. Person of character off court: B
Jermaine O'Neal. Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B (Boxing out comes to mind)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: B (Passing still needs improvement)
4. Loves defense: A-
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: A
Jeff Foster: Total Indiana rating: B
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (Good shooting form but still doesn't work!)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: F
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Austin Croshere: Total Indiana rating: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B+
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Ron Artest: Total Indiana rating: B- (but depends on the month)
1. Fundamentally sound: B+ (Everything but boxing out)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: C (Depends on the month)
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: B (Depends on the month)
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: D (Depends on the month)
Anthony Johnson: Total Indiana rating: A-
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: A-
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Danny Granger: Total Indiana Rating: A-
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (This will be an A soon)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Sarunas Jasekevicus: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B (Still a little too fancy for Indie liking. Should improve.)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: C
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Fred Jones: Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: B
4. Loves defense: A-
5. Makes his free throws: B
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
David Harrison: Total Indiana rating: B-
1. Fundamentally sound: B
2. Strong work ethic: C
3. Team before self: B
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: B
7. Person of character off court: C- --Picture breaker
Scott Pollard: Total Indiana rating: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: B
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: C
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
James Jones: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Reggie Miller: A
1. Fundamentally sound: A- (Again, boxing out the only slight weakness)
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: B
5. Makes his free throws: A
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
Dale Davis: B+
1. Fundamentally sound: A
2. Strong work ethic: A
3. Team before self: A
4. Loves defense: A
5. Makes his free throws: D
6. Good attitude on court: A
7. Person of character off court: A
I'm going to leave out Gill and Samaki because of no playing time. Same goes for Jon Edwards. That leaves us with the following summary:
The "Indiana Rating" for 2005 Indiana Pacers:
Stephen Jackson: C-
Jamaal Tinsley: C
Jermaine O'Neal: B+
Jeff Foster: B
Austin Croshere: A
Ron Artest: B-
Anthony Johnson: A-
Sarunas Jasekevicus: B+
Fred Jones: B+
Danny Granger: A-
David Harrison: B-
Scott Pollard: B+
James Jones: A
Reggie Miller: A
Dale Davis: B+
Interesting to think about. We have let go two high rated Indiana players (Davis and JJ) and are about to trade, begrudgingly, a low-rated player (Artest). Perhaps TPTB would do well to make its future trades and picks based on an Indiana rating. Is it possible that we have lost our way the past few years?
--McKeyFan
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