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Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

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  • Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

    Pacers need to get rid of Artest ... ASAP


    All of the players on the Pacers' roster have been put in untenable positions by the status — or, more accurately, the non-status — of Ron Artest.

    Which of them will stay? Which of them will go? How will the surviving players deal with the inevitable alterations in their roles and their playing time? The process of deciding what to do about Artest has already gone on much too long. That's why there's a cloud hovering over the Pacers and muddling the team's effectiveness.

    Meanwhile, here's what the Pacers looked like in their 99-86 loss at San Antonio on Tuesday. And here's what that particular game revealed about what the Pacers need in exchange for Artest in order to mount a serious challenge in the playoffs.

    Jermaine O'Neal is the only true superstar on the roster (10-of-20, 7 rebounds, 26 points). He's an incredibly athletic post-up scorer — turn-around-jumpers, jump hooks either way, lefty runners, face-up jumpers, tight power-spins, he's got all the moves. He isn't a superior passer, however, and he often will force his dribble into trouble. But the guy can score.

    Unfortunately, O'Neal is forced to do too much. Score, rebound, block shots, and defend. Sure, he's got good hands, terrific hops, and he's at least a four-space rebounder — but retrieving missed shots doesn't come naturally to him. He doesn't box out, and he's frequently caught out of position.

    He certainly doesn't coast on defense — on several occasions O'Neal was assigned the impossible task of guarding Tim Duncan by his lonesome; no teammate waiting at a help spot, no double-team either on the catch or the move. As a result, O'Neal was tagged with several quick fouls. But O'Neal doesn't start playing defense until his man has the ball.

    Another problem area is O'Neal's subpar free-throw shooting — his lifetime mark from the stripe is only 69 percent. That's because there's much too much of a corkscrew movement in his wrist and elbow on his shot release.

    Also, what about O'Neal's susceptibility to physical ailments? He's currently battling an aching back, and has had wrist and shoulder miseries in recent years. For the Pacers to proceed deep into the playoffs, O'Neal needs assistance at both ends of the court.

    The numbers say that Jamaal Tinsley had a wondrous game — 9-of-18, 4 assists, 4 steals, only 2 turnovers, and 20 points. And he is, in fact, a very talented player. But Tinsley absolutely needs to monopolize the ball to be effective. Also, four of his shots were forced (he made one), and six of his points were registered in garbage time. In truth, Tinsley is a scoring-guard masquerading as a point-guard. Why not play him there? Because at 6-3 he's too short, and because his defense is downright abominable.

    For sure, Tinsley is quick and extremely creative with the ball, but his decision-making is faulty, as is his perimeter shooting. In a perfect world, Tinsley would come off the bench and be an unabashed point-maker for the Pacers' second unit.

    Stephen Jackson's stat line was similarly impressive — 6-of-12, 8 rebounds, and 13 points. Jackson did most of his damage as he received the ball on the right wing — usually making the catch after a strong-to-weak-side, cross-grain cut off staggered screens set near the foul line. But Jackson would probably rather shoot than pass, eat, sleep, spend money, and/or hang out with his girlfriend.

    Stephen Jackson had a tough time staying with the Spurs' Manu Ginobili Wednesday night. ( / Associated Press)

    His attempts to play defense were pathetic. For someone with unquestioned athletic ability, Jackson's lateral movement was surprisingly listless. Moreover, he routinely turned his head to track the ball and lost contact with his man — on one play, Manu Ginobili made a backdoor cut and as he scored an easy layup, Jackson was still 20-feet from the basket. On another play, Jackson turned his head on Ginobili, recovered, was lifted by a head fake 15-feet from the hoop, recovered, then was faked off his feet again on a baseline spin. The ultimate outcome was a foul on Jackson and a 3-point play by Ginobili.

    Like Tinsley, Jackson is another natural sixth-man who's been plugged into the starting lineup.

    Sarunas Jasikevicius was never a factor (1-of-3, 2 points). He needs to generate scoring opportunities off snappy ball movement, several well-placed screens, and clever cuts. But his lack of foot-speed enabled the quick Spurs' guards to shadow his every step. Coach Rick Carlisle tired to get Jasikevicius involved — running him off a staggered screen to start the second half — but the resulting flip shot was badly off the mark.

    Jasikevicius was helpless on defense. Not only was he easily beaten off the dribble, but his rotations were always late. For example, in a third-quarter sequence he was the designated two-timer when TD received an entry pass in the paint. But when Duncan slipped the ball back to Tony Parker, Jasikevicius recovered too late to prevent Parker from waltzing to the hoop for an easy score.

    Jasikevicius is smart enough to play well against the NBA's weaker teams. But being responsible for starters' minutes against the leagues' elite outfits is more than he can handle.

    Jeff Foster is still not in game shape and it showed (0-of-3, 7 rebounds, 3 points). He did an okay job in defense of Duncan in the first half, then was hung out to dry by TD after the intermission. Even when Foster has his chops honed and ready, he remains a finesse player who depends on hustle and timing to both rebound and score. Foster is yet another natural substitute.

    Fred Jones is a powerhouse scorer (5-of-8, 14 points), who is most effective when he can put the ball on the floor with his right hand. (He did go left twice — crossing back to his right to score a hard-driving layup, and also making an awkward pass that gained no advantage.) Jones can also light up a scoreboard with long-distance jumpers.

    Scoring, si. Passing, no. Defense, seldom if ever.

    Count Jones as still another ideal scorer off the bench.

    Anthony Johnson's game is totally out of whack (0-of-2, 1 assist, 0 points). He's always struggled to safely handle the ball under aggressive defensive pressure, but he seemed more tentative running the offense ever. And if defense was always Johnson's specialty, against the Spurs his footwork was awfully slow (although he did make a nice rotation from the weak-side when Duncan was fronted in the pivot by Foster). Has Johnson lost a critical step at age 31? Or is his poor performance so far this season a function of his reduced playing time? Either way, AJ is very dispensable.

    Scott Pollard (1-of-3, 5 rebounds, 3 points) banged TD around for nearly 18 minutes, and hustled his fanny off. After not making any aggressive shows on several screen/rolls in the first half, Pollard corrected this deficiency during his second rotation. Pollard is an adequate role player on a team that has too many other role players.

    Austin Croshere (1-of-2, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 points) showed his never-ending hustle by trailing a fast break and putting back a missed shot. Otherwise, he usually stayed at the top of the key and made a few reversal passes. Croshere is strictly a 6-foot-9 hustle player who's been a Pacer for nine years mostly on the basis of his streaky shooting from beyond the arc.

    The Pacers' prize rookie, Danny Granger (1-of-3, 2 points), played 12 useless minutes.

    So, then, how good is this team? Can they be a serious contender without Artest? And, if not, what parts are they missing that a deal involving Artest might bring? Carlisle has orchestrated a tough, active defense that amounts to more than the sum of his individual players — a defense good enough to give the NBA's lower- and mid-echelon teams headaches. But the Pacers can be overwhelmed by patient ball movement and penetrating guards.


    Their offense is too stagnant to create open shots against earnest defenses — they collected only 12 assists on the 34 baskets they managed against the Spurs. There's too much one-on-one action and not nearly enough ball reversals. Tinsley is too selfish and too erratic with the ball to function as a top-flight point guard. Jackson is an unstable mistake player. Jones only wants to go right. There just doesn't seem to be the same effort or synchronicity at both ends of the court that there was last year before and after the brawl.

    O'Neal is the only horse Indiana can ride if they want to finish in the money. But even with O'Neal playing at peak form, the Pacers as presently constituted will be lucky to get out of the first round of the playoffs.

    The team needs a bruiser to take some big-man-big-time pressure off of O'Neal. Also a more reliable scorer than Jackson on the wing, a real point guard, better man-to-man defenders at the skill positions, and more players who can create off the dribble. But most of all, they need to get Artest out of the picture.

    Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh are advised to make the move pronto before bad turns to worse.

    Charley Rosen, former CBA coach, author of 12 books about hoops, the current one being A pivotal season — How the 1971-72 L.A. Lakers changed the NBA, is a frequent contributor to FOXSports.com.
    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5200380
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  • #2
    Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

    Bball - did I post the article first or did you?
    ANDY: I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy winning or get busy losing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

      Rosen is not worth the time it takes to read his crap.
      You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

        Originally posted by pacerwaala
        Bball - did I post the article first or did you?
        I believe I won by a couple of minutes...
        and I posted the link in mine

        -Bball
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

          I don't think Rosen will make many Indiana friends with that....

          -Bball
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

            Originally posted by Bball
            I don't think Rosen will make many Indiana friends with that....

            -Bball
            Well, he might not but I can't disagree with much in that article.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

              except for "Tinsley is a scoring-guard masquerading as a point-guard", I basically agree with what he said...

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                Originally posted by stew
                except for "Tinsley is a scoring-guard masquerading as a point-guard", I basically agree with what he said...
                ???

                Tinsley is no more a shooiting guard than Chaunce Billups, Tony Parker, Jason Terry, Kirk Hinrich, Sam Cassell, Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Mike Bibby etc., and in most cases is a better pure point guard than those listed.

                Tinsley has amazing ability, he's really blossomed into a nice scorer, yet he still has probably the best handles in the NBA and amazing passing ability. He's just been needed to score more the past 2 years because we've been without so many of our guys.

                He just wish the guy would stay healthy for more than a week at a time, so we, and the rest of the NBA, can see just how good Jamaal is. He's easily capable of putting up 15/8/5 given the minutes. Very, very few point guards can say that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                  What's to disagree with? At various times most of us have said the same things. We need a better C, Jax should come off the bench, Start Saras over Tinsley or trade Tinsly, Saras needs to come off the bench, on and on. He's put together in one article what many of us have said, he's just more analytical about it. ALthough, Foster is a finese player?
                  Sounds like what he is calling for is a complete blow-up of the team and I'd have to agree. I predicted a 1st round exit, but at this point I'd have to question our ability to make the playoffs.
                  Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                    Yes, to me Tins looks like a scoring-guard, who either shoots or makes an assist, but do not care much about the offensive flow (i mean - he doesn't really control it, not that there is no flow with him). But, on the other hand - it's good, especially now when we need (dramaticaly) the scorers. And we have Saras to make different plays and to involve other players. Why not to split the time at PG equaly to get much needed scoring and more controlable plays when these are needed?
                    I still stick to the opinion that our players are good enough, we just have them in the wrong positions playing the wrong minutes and matchups.
                    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                      This team needs to be remade in certain respects. I am not convinced
                      this team can win with Jackson and Tinsley. When I say win I mean a title.


                      owl
                      {o,o}
                      |)__)
                      -"-"-

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                        I agree with everything he said. Maybe his classification of Tinsley as a scoring point guard is off, but his analysis of Tinsley's game is 100% correct. Any game that Tinsley has to do what he had to do last night, we know that game will be lost. And yes Rosen's comment about Tinsley needing the ball to be effective is true, and that stagnates the offense.

                        I agree with Rosen, the Pacers have only one legitimate starter on a championship contender. No one else on the roster would start on the Pistons or Spurs or even the Heat.

                        Pacers fans need to face reality the Pacers should be an average team and the only reason they are slightly above average is because they are well coached.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                          Tinsley would definantly start over the terrible Jason Williams.

                          Tinsley is of now our 2nd best player. If people can't see that, then they're plain stupid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                            Originally posted by Naptown Seth
                            Tinsley would definantly start over the terrible Jason Williams.

                            Tinsley is of now our 2nd best player. If people can't see that, then they're plain stupid.

                            He probably would start of JWill, but that is nothing to get excited about. Payton plays the important minutes anyway for the Heat.

                            Tinsley is our second best player right now. But that is nothing to get excited about either. Just shows where the team is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Charlie Rosen Talks Pacers

                              Naptown, you forgot to add /6 at the end of your stat line.
                              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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