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Thread: All-time team - Foreign born players

  1. #1
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    Default All-time team - Foreign born players

    We may need to come up with a first and second team, which is cool too. I'll list some obvious nominations and people can add from there. Oh, and in the spirit of the thread, Tim Duncan (Virgin Islands) is not included. My selections highlighted in bold

    Oscar Schmidt
    Drazen Petrovic
    Arvydas Sabonis
    Andrei Kirilenko
    Dirk Nowitzki
    Sarunas Marciulionis
    Vlade Divac
    Toni Kukoc
    Hakeem (Akeem) Olajuwon
    Dikembe Mutumbo
    Yao Ming
    Peja Stojakovic
    Steve Nash
    Tony Parker
    Detlef Schrempf
    Paul Gasol
    Sergei Belov
    Manu Ginobili
    Jose Ortiz
    Patrick Ewing - thanks PT
    Andrew Gaze - thanks Swiss
    Modestas Paulauskas - thanks Swiss

    I'd play with Nash and Petro in the backcourt, Schmidt on the wing, Akeem at PF and Sabonis at C (mostly playing out of hte high post, though)

  2. #2
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    No love for Obi-Won Ginobli? Or Bruno Sundov?


    Alright I was joking about Sundov.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    1st team:
    Sabonis at C
    Olajuwon at PF
    Kirilenko at SF
    Drazen Petrovic at SG
    Nash at PG

    2nd team:
    Patrick Ewing at C (Jamaica)
    Nowitski PF
    Schmidt SF
    Marchulonis SG
    Parker PG

    3rd team
    Mutombo C
    Divac PF
    Peja SF
    Ginobili SG
    Belov PG
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  4. #4
    ghost
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Basketball
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    ...Sabonis at C (mostly playing out of hte high post, though)...
    How you would play healthy Sabas? Once you mentioned that Sabas had bad knees. Little correction, Sabas tore his Achilles tendon and after it was repaired he tore it again. After that basically he couldn't run and jump.
    Healthy Sabas was a monster.

  5. #5
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    I believe Petrovic is massively overrated. Not to sound cold, but that happens a lot when people die young (Kurt Cobain, James Dean etc.). He was a very good shooter, but other then that, what did he do? If we're talking about players ability, then there's no way Drazen is ahead of Dirk or Deke. I would also rank Detlef, Vlade, and Kukoc ahead of him, as they were much, much more complete players. And in the coming years I believe he could/will be passed up by Gasol, AK-47, Manu and Peja.

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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost
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    How you would play healthy Sabas? Once you mentioned that Sabas had bad knees. Little correction, Sabas tore his Achilles tendon and after it was repaired he tore it again. After that basically he couldn't run and jump.
    Healthy Sabas was a monster.
    Still out of the high post...best passing big man ever and its not even close, despite the prowess of guys like Divac and Webber. I'd run half of the offense through him, especially when Nash wasn't pushing the ball up and down the court.

    Between his passing and how crafty he was around the basket, I really wish he would have hit the NBA when healthy. As a Laker fan I hated him (and his crying), but really respected his game

  7. #7

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Ewing should be in the list. Well, on the other hand maybe not - he probably learnt bball in US where he was living since 13 or 14.

    Also, you should wait a bit with Nash, I think. Maybe add Ewing/Nowitzki/or Schrempf instead and move Petrovic to PG? The lineup would go big in that case, and it's quite reasonable as bigs used to be the main sort of foreign import into NBA for a long time. I think Nash is a legitimate candidate with his MVP prize, but I simply think that a person should play at least several years of top-class bball to be considered among the all-time greats.

    Also, Andrew Gaze should be added, otherwise Australians will go crazy

    Modestas Paulauskas should be here. He's the obvious leader of the USSR team in 70s and winner of the notorious Munchen Olympics.

    And who is Ortiz?

  8. #8

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    Modestas Paulauskas should be here. He's the obvious leader of the USSR team in 70s and winner of the notorious Munchen Olympics.
    I was young back then, but I thought that Sergei Belov was regarded as by far the best Soviet player of that era, and was inducted into the Hall of Fame as the first non-American, if I recall correctly.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  9. #9

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown Seth
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    I believe Petrovic is massively overrated. Not to sound cold, but that happens a lot when people die young (Kurt Cobain, James Dean etc.). He was a very good shooter, but other then that, what did he do? If we're talking about players ability, then there's no way Drazen is ahead of Dirk or Deke. I would also rank Detlef, Vlade, and Kukoc ahead of him, as they were much, much more complete players. And in the coming years I believe he could/will be passed up by Gasol, AK-47, Manu and Peja.
    Defence, passing, jumping and leadership skills - not just shooting. At least in Europe. He did not have enough time to adopt in NBA completely.

    However, it is hard to compare people from different epochas. One thing is clear - he was dominating in Europe before getting into NBA. Kirilenko, Manu, Kukoc were among the best and won quite a lot, but never dominated so obviously.

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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    And who is Ortiz?
    Ortiz is from Puerto Rico and played college bball at Oregon State. For some reason I remembered him better than he actually was....LOL. He was a big scorer in college, but didn't pan out at all in the NBA..only played a couple of years.

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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    I was young back then, but I thought that Sergei Belov was regarded as by far the best Soviet player of that era, and was inducted into the Hall of Fame as the first non-American, if I recall correctly.
    Belov is definitely in the HOF

  12. #12
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    Defence, passing, jumping and leadership skills - not just shooting. At least in Europe. He did not have enough time to adopt in NBA completely.

    However, it is hard to compare people from different epochas. One thing is clear - he was dominating in Europe before getting into NBA. Kirilenko, Manu, Kukoc were among the best and won quite a lot, but never dominated so obviously.
    True. I admit I've never seen Drazen play live, but I do know he never won anything really noteworthy in the NBA and his stats were good but not spectacular.
    Kukoc played with Jordan and Pippen, so ofcourse he's gonna win. Detlef was a Pacer many years, and wasn't as good a scorer as Petro but had a much more complete ame IMO. And Dirk is a bonafide superstar in the NBA, something even the best of Europeans rarely ever accomplish. As a matter of fact, I'm not so sure Dirk isn't the first European who has become a superstar here in America. Arvydas, Vlade, Toni, Petro etc. - all very good, but none "superstars".

  13. #13

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    I was young back then, but I thought that Sergei Belov was regarded as by far the best Soviet player of that era, and was inducted into the Hall of Fame as the first non-American, if I recall correctly.
    Good point. Belov should be there, no doubt. From what I know, he was the most noticable Russian player in that final against USA in 1972. Scored 20 pts or so, including the notorious contraversial clutch points during final seconds.

    Paulauskas was almost totally contained during that game, but he was the most consistent USSR player during the whole tournament, while Sergei Belov and 2-3 other players on the team had a couple of great nights each. No doubt Belov chose the best time for his great night and must be regarded for that, but Paulauskas was their perpetual leader.

  14. #14
    Kestas
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    there was a thread on that on interbasket.net board (owned by American guy btw - I sense there's a hostility towards a non-american stuff )
    the results of the "vote" after 19 people cared to express their view were as follows (pasted in):

    ----------

    18 votes:
    Drazen Petrovic, Yugoslavia
    Arvydas Sabonis, Lithuania

    15 votes:
    Oscar Schmidt, Brazil
    Toni Kukoc, Croatia

    14 votes:
    Predrag Stojakovic, Yugoslavia

    11 votes:
    Nikos Galis, Greece
    Dirk Nowitzki, Germany
    Vlade Divac, Yugoslavia

    10 votes:
    Sarunas Marciulionis, Lithuania

    8 votes:
    Pau Gasol, Spain

    7 votes
    Dejan Bodiroga, Yugoslavia
    Sergei Belov, Russia

    -----------current team brink------------

    6 votes:
    Jose Ortiz, Puerto Rico

    5 votes:
    Dino Meneghin, Italy
    Yao Ming, China

    4 votes:
    Fernando Martin, Spain
    Juan Antonio San Epifanio, Spain
    Steve Nash, Canada
    Aleksander "Sasha" Djordjevic, Yugoslavia
    Kresimir Cosic, Yugoslavia

    3 votes:
    Antoine Rigadeau, France

    2 votes:
    Tony Parker, France
    Andrew Gaze, Australia
    Zarko Paspalj, Yugoslavia
    Dino Radja, Croatia
    Andrei Kirilenko, Russia
    Rimas Kurtinaitis, Lithuania
    Yannakis, Greece
    Detlef Schrempf, Germany
    Predrag Danilovic, Yugoslavia

    1 vote:
    Carlos Arroyo, Puerto Rico
    Sarunas Jasikevicius, Lithuania
    Zoran Savic, Serbia
    V. Chomicius, Lithuania
    Vladimir Tkachenko, Russia
    Mike D'Antoni, Italy
    Jordi Villacampa, Spain
    Emanuel Ginobili, Argentina
    Juan Antonio Corbalan, Spain
    Dragan Kikanovic, Serbia
    Anatoly Mishkin, Russia
    ------------

    btw, Mr. Basketball has added me to the ignore list, so I guess others will have to repost it if they find it usefull
    I personally think that pretty much all players mentioned in here belong in the initial list obviously, Nikos Galis and Dejan Bodiroga are the most noticable absentees.

  15. #15

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Nikos Galis was born in New Jersey according to his bio, of Greek immigrants. Played for Greece after being cut by the Celtics.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  16. #16
    Kestas
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    Nikos Galis was born in New Jersey according to his bio, of Greek immigrants. Played for Greece after being cut by the Celtics.
    right, foreign born. my bad :/
    indeed Galis was so famous in Europe (he played for various clubs as wel as for the NT, of course), that everybody forgot he's practically half-American

    anyways, I've pasted an old result. here's a more recent one (pasted in):

    ----------
    First Team:
    36 out of 37 votes:
    Drazen Petrovic, Croatia
    Arvydas Sabonis, Lithuania

    30 votes:
    Oscar Schmidt, Brazil
    Toni Kukoc, Croatia

    22 votes:
    Peja Stojakovic, S&M
    Nikos Galis, Greece
    Vlade Divac, S&M

    21 votes:
    Dirk Nowitzky, Germany
    Sarunas Marculionis, Lithuania

    17 votes:
    Dejan Bodiroga, S&M

    12 votes:
    Sergei Belov, Russia
    Dino Radja, Croatia

    Second Team
    11 votes:
    Pau Gasol, Spain

    9 votes:
    Jose Ortiz, Puerto Rico
    Kresimir Cosic,

    8 votes:
    Dino Meneghin, Italy
    Emanuel Ginobili, Argentina

    7 votes:
    Steve Nash, Canada

    6 votes:
    Yao Ming, China
    Fernando Martin, Spain
    Juan Antonio San Epifanio, Spain
    Andrew Gaze, Australia
    Detlef Schrempf, Germany

    4 votes:
    Aleksander "Sasha" Djordjevic, Yugoslavia
    Andrei Kirilenko, Russia

    End of Second Team

    3 votes:
    Antoine Rigadeau, France
    Panayiotis Yannakis, Greece
    Rimas Kurtinaitis, Lithuania
    Drazen Dalipagic, Bosnia?

    2 votes:
    Tony Parker, France
    Zarko Paspalj, Yugoslavia
    Predrag Danilovic, Yugoslavia
    Carlos Arroyo, Puerto Rico
    Anatoly Mishkin, Russia
    Mirza Delibasic, Yugoslavia
    Juan Antonio Corbalán, Spain
    Dragan Kikanovic, Yugoslavia
    Rik Smits, The Netherlands
    Sarunas Jasikevicius, Lithuania

    1 vote:
    Zoran Savic, Serbia
    V. Chomicius, Lithuania
    Vladimir Tkachenko, Russia
    Mike D'Antoni, Italy
    Jordi Villacampa, Spain
    M. Milanesio, Argentina
    Zoran Sretenovic, S&M
    Radivoj Korac, S&M
    Omar Quintero, Mexico
    Valdis Valters, USSR
    Wayne Brabender, Spain
    -----------------

    it's all from the modern fans point of view, nothing groundbraking in any respect :/ people here adopt Galis as a non-american player, but no one mentions Hakeem, Ewing or Mutombo as they're considered American players basically

  17. #17
    Member skyfire's Avatar
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Andrew Gaze may have been the greatest ever Australian bball player, but Bogut has already accomplished more than Gaze ever did in the NBA.

  18. #18

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    I didn't read everything, but anyone else realize Drazen Petrovic is in the Hall of Fame?

    I didn't realize that until just now. I remember watching him play (barely), and that he was extremely good, but just wasn't aware of that.

  19. #19

    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by skyfire
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    Andrew Gaze may have been the greatest ever Australian bball player, but Bogut has already accomplished more than Gaze ever did in the NBA.
    Well, Luc Longley has accomplished more in the NBA than both of them put together. I used to put Gaze not too high too, but finally gave up. While Australians might have had more export-ready players (read: talented bigs), Gaze was the one who used to put that team together - even with grey in his hair.

    Besides, he's an icon of international basketball. Watching that old man pass the ball into the paint for a young hairy dominating stud like Bogut - that really makes you stop and think - "vow, that must have been the spirit of Olympics, wasn't it? And I thought it was just a metaphor..."

    Well, that might be only my own image of Gaze and international basketball. If you meet an Australian fan, you might also get some Larry Bird-comparisons

  20. #20
    Rytas_Jega
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissExpress
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    If you meet an Australian fan, you might also get some Larry Bird-comparisons
    I guess skyfire is an Australian fan

  21. #21
    Member NPFII's Avatar
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    Default Re: All-time team - Foreign born players

    Um... arguably, you can add to the list:

    Present:
    Tim Duncan (Virgin Islands)?
    Jamaal Magloire (Canada)?
    Memo Okur (Turkey)?

    Past:
    Dino Radja (Yugoslavia)?
    Tkachenko (USSR)?

    Israeli:
    Mickey Berkovich (NJ late '70s)
    Doron Sheffer (UConn, drafted by Clippers)
    Oded Katash (Signed as FA for NY in the '99 lockout season)

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