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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

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  • #1

    Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

    Not sure how many articles there are going to be. But I'll start with Vescey. Nothing really new here from Friday night

    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/pfriendly_new.php



    COMBO SPLATTER
    By PETER VECSEY

    UNLIKE the majority of coaches, Larry Brown doesn't feel as if he has to start any of his players except for Stephon Marbury. Therefore the Knicks' mad scientist plays 'em all in a nutty season made even crazier by a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that instituted the use of a trigger-turnstile 15-man inventory.

    Let's start with some simple multiplication: 15 x 14 x 13 x 12 x 11.

    All right, I cheated. I relocated my abacus and came up with 360,360.

    That's the number of possible starting fives Home Town Brown can concoct, working from a swiveling cacophonous group of band members. Of course, that's assuming none of the 15 gets interchanged down the interstate.

    360,360. Put another way, based on the 82-game season, Brown would have to grace the Garden for nearly 4,400 years to try 'em all.

    When placed in that light quilting 20 or 30 different quintets this season (16 and counting of a possible 26) is downright stable.

    The method to Brown's amplified madness is clear. He's covering his posterior by fiddling with a multitude of combinations to make it seem as if his players' ineptness and inexperience give him no other choice but to group grope.

    This from a guy who, while in Detroit, didn't go nine-deep on the layup line.

    So what, you might say, if Brown plays with the hearts and minds of the active and inactive. What's wrong with leaving no Oliver Stone unturned?

    Well, for one thing, save for the plebes and shapeless Eddy Curry - and we can only guess how Brown's tire rotation is getting into those fragile young minds - the New York Knicks have as many valuable assets as the New York Democrats.

    John Wooden used to say, if a team's talent is even (read: evenly defective), then there should be no problem settling on an unwavering lineup. In other words, Brown is long overdue to make that command decision, if for no other reason than to establish a false sense of stability.

    One of Isiah Thomas' countless mistakes, if not the most glaring, was not hiring Rick Carlisle for a couple years to facilitate Larry Brown's transition.


    Pacers' CEO Donnie Walsh has never been fond of making disruptive in-season trades or radically changing the roster for any other grounds. Though any time major alternations occur it seems as if Ron Artest is the core of the cause.

    In mid-February 2002, Tru Warier and Brad Miller were the primary components acquired by Indiana from Chicago for Jalen Rose. Last season, Artest got sentenced to 73 games on the shelf for breaking and entering the Palace stands, and dragged Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson and others onto the suspended list with him. And now Artest's trashing of Carlisle and trade demand has given Walsh no alternative but to comply; the smoother the conversion the better.

    Nobody is more qualified to help the Pacers realize that objective than former Pacer Al Harrington. The Knicks can pump out all the propaganda they want their pursuit of the New Jersey native but they've got no ammo to get him this season from the Hawks (unless they're prepared to part with precious Channing Frye), and Harrington would be foolish twice over to join another loser next season as New York's mid-level exception.

    In the meantime, the Pacers have their sights set on reclaiming Harrington, who would fit in seamlessly with O'Neal and his other ex-teammates, who he stays in touch with and remains tight.

    This is the player Walsh and Larry Bird and Carlisle want. Problem is, the Hawks don't want Artest. So a third team must be included, a team that wants Artest and is able to satisfy Atlanta. Easier desired than done.

    Sources identify Artest's most ardent suitors: Clippers (Chris Wilcox, not Corey Maggette, as reported, plus someone else and a No. 1 pick); Nuggets (Nene has yet to be offered but how else can they accomplish it?); Wizards (Caron Butler or Jarred Jeffries and Chucky Atkins match contractually); Sonics (Vladimir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans and Flip Murray all have the power to void trades, and that's still not enough salary to get it done); Timberwolves (neither Atlanta nor Indiana is intrigued by Wally Szczerbiak); and the Warriors (they were willing to give up Jay Murphy for Kwame Brown, so why wouldn't they be open to it now?).


    Isn't the Washington Post held in the highest esteem? Aren't its reporters renowned fact checkers? Aren't they supposed to have the most reputable sources?

    Well, its Wizards beat writer definitely was led astray the other day when he alleged Washington and New York were chatting up Jeffries/Atkins for Quentin Richardson swap. Never happened! Never will! Sheer nonsense! Why would the Wiz entertain a deal for someone with five years left on his contract ($40M) whose back is uninsurable for two contributors with expiring deals? The Washington Post must have Ernie Grunfeld, Wiz president of basketball operations/former Knicks executive, confused with the current one.

    Naturally, Thomas is especially eager to renounce Richardson, particularly if a small forward or point guard can be obtained in the process. Let the record show, discloses a source, that Q's reintroduction into the starting lineup last week, only this time at the guard position, occurred immediately after the Nuggets inquired about his health. As much as Denver needs a licensed off shore driller, it's highly doubtful GM Kiki Vandeweghe will sign off on such an assigned risk, even if means dumping the distinctively unimpressive Julius Hodge's 3-year, $3.7M guarantee as part payment. Earl Watson, not available in a trade until Dec. 29, is the Knicks' focal "point" in these discussions.


    If Brown ever had any sincere interest in reuniting with Eric Snow, now's the chance to prove it. The Cavaliers, I'm informed, are on the prowl for someone more capable to run the team. The feeling within the franchise, as well as from afar, is the 32-year-old Snow ($20M more on the books following this season) has stalled to a crawl, and 3-point chucking, showboating Damon Jones ($12M more over the next three) is purely one-dimensional. ... Contrary to reports, the Nuggets' Kenyon Martin is not being shopped in any shape or form. ... Kings exec Geoff Petrie let it be known he has no intention of trading Peja Stojakovic and never spoke to the Pacers about any such trade for Artest. ... Houston wouldn't so much as entertain an offer from the Nets for Stromile Swift. The Rockets are looking to procure a backup shooting guard. ... Of all continuously fabricated drivel churned out by ESPN.com (except for the real stuff it commandeers from other media outlets) its speculation regarding the Sonics and Knicks (Rashard Lewis and Danielle Pig Tails for Penny Hardaway and Nate "The Gadget" Robinson has to be most outlandish and least educated. Even Stephen Anal Smith doesn't want his stained name attached to it. ... In case you missed it, Phil Jackson was fined 25G by the NBA for expressing interest (while in Toronto, no less) in Chris Bosh two seasons from now. The league returned the money yesterday when Jackson articulated he had no interest whatsoever in any Knick.

    peter.vecsey@nypost.com
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

    I read this articles, especially David Aldridge's article and then I read Kravitz, and I feel cheated. Kravitz is a clever with words, he is a good writer, but he never advances the story.


    Not sure how many articles there are going to be. But I'll start with Vescey. Nothing really new here from Friday night

    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/pfriendly_new.php



    COMBO SPLATTER
    By PETER VECSEY

    UNLIKE the majority of coaches, Larry Brown doesn't feel as if he has to start any of his players except for Stephon Marbury. Therefore the Knicks' mad scientist plays 'em all in a nutty season made even crazier by a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that instituted the use of a trigger-turnstile 15-man inventory.

    Let's start with some simple multiplication: 15 x 14 x 13 x 12 x 11.

    All right, I cheated. I relocated my abacus and came up with 360,360.

    That's the number of possible starting fives Home Town Brown can concoct, working from a swiveling cacophonous group of band members. Of course, that's assuming none of the 15 gets interchanged down the interstate.

    360,360. Put another way, based on the 82-game season, Brown would have to grace the Garden for nearly 4,400 years to try 'em all.

    When placed in that light quilting 20 or 30 different quintets this season (16 and counting of a possible 26) is downright stable.

    The method to Brown's amplified madness is clear. He's covering his posterior by fiddling with a multitude of combinations to make it seem as if his players' ineptness and inexperience give him no other choice but to group grope.

    This from a guy who, while in Detroit, didn't go nine-deep on the layup line.

    So what, you might say, if Brown plays with the hearts and minds of the active and inactive. What's wrong with leaving no Oliver Stone unturned?

    Well, for one thing, save for the plebes and shapeless Eddy Curry - and we can only guess how Brown's tire rotation is getting into those fragile young minds - the New York Knicks have as many valuable assets as the New York Democrats.

    John Wooden used to say, if a team's talent is even (read: evenly defective), then there should be no problem settling on an unwavering lineup. In other words, Brown is long overdue to make that command decision, if for no other reason than to establish a false sense of stability.

    One of Isiah Thomas' countless mistakes, if not the most glaring, was not hiring Rick Carlisle for a couple years to facilitate Larry Brown's transition.


    Pacers' CEO Donnie Walsh has never been fond of making disruptive in-season trades or radically changing the roster for any other grounds. Though any time major alternations occur it seems as if Ron Artest is the core of the cause.

    In mid-February 2002, Tru Warier and Brad Miller were the primary components acquired by Indiana from Chicago for Jalen Rose. Last season, Artest got sentenced to 73 games on the shelf for breaking and entering the Palace stands, and dragged Jermaine O'Neal, Stephen Jackson and others onto the suspended list with him. And now Artest's trashing of Carlisle and trade demand has given Walsh no alternative but to comply; the smoother the conversion the better.

    Nobody is more qualified to help the Pacers realize that objective than former Pacer Al Harrington. The Knicks can pump out all the propaganda they want their pursuit of the New Jersey native but they've got no ammo to get him this season from the Hawks (unless they're prepared to part with precious Channing Frye), and Harrington would be foolish twice over to join another loser next season as New York's mid-level exception.

    In the meantime, the Pacers have their sights set on reclaiming Harrington, who would fit in seamlessly with O'Neal and his other ex-teammates, who he stays in touch with and remains tight.

    This is the player Walsh and Larry Bird and Carlisle want. Problem is, the Hawks don't want Artest. So a third team must be included, a team that wants Artest and is able to satisfy Atlanta. Easier desired than done.

    Sources identify Artest's most ardent suitors: Clippers (Chris Wilcox, not Corey Maggette, as reported, plus someone else and a No. 1 pick); Nuggets (Nene has yet to be offered but how else can they accomplish it?); Wizards (Caron Butler or Jarred Jeffries and Chucky Atkins match contractually); Sonics (Vladimir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans and Flip Murray all have the power to void trades, and that's still not enough salary to get it done); Timberwolves (neither Atlanta nor Indiana is intrigued by Wally Szczerbiak); and the Warriors (they were willing to give up Jay Murphy for Kwame Brown, so why wouldn't they be open to it now?).


    Isn't the Washington Post held in the highest esteem? Aren't its reporters renowned fact checkers? Aren't they supposed to have the most reputable sources?

    Well, its Wizards beat writer definitely was led astray the other day when he alleged Washington and New York were chatting up Jeffries/Atkins for Quentin Richardson swap. Never happened! Never will! Sheer nonsense! Why would the Wiz entertain a deal for someone with five years left on his contract ($40M) whose back is uninsurable for two contributors with expiring deals? The Washington Post must have Ernie Grunfeld, Wiz president of basketball operations/former Knicks executive, confused with the current one.

    Naturally, Thomas is especially eager to renounce Richardson, particularly if a small forward or point guard can be obtained in the process. Let the record show, discloses a source, that Q's reintroduction into the starting lineup last week, only this time at the guard position, occurred immediately after the Nuggets inquired about his health. As much as Denver needs a licensed off shore driller, it's highly doubtful GM Kiki Vandeweghe will sign off on such an assigned risk, even if means dumping the distinctively unimpressive Julius Hodge's 3-year, $3.7M guarantee as part payment. Earl Watson, not available in a trade until Dec. 29, is the Knicks' focal "point" in these discussions.


    If Brown ever had any sincere interest in reuniting with Eric Snow, now's the chance to prove it. The Cavaliers, I'm informed, are on the prowl for someone more capable to run the team. The feeling within the franchise, as well as from afar, is the 32-year-old Snow ($20M more on the books following this season) has stalled to a crawl, and 3-point chucking, showboating Damon Jones ($12M more over the next three) is purely one-dimensional. ... Contrary to reports, the Nuggets' Kenyon Martin is not being shopped in any shape or form. ... Kings exec Geoff Petrie let it be known he has no intention of trading Peja Stojakovic and never spoke to the Pacers about any such trade for Artest. ... Houston wouldn't so much as entertain an offer from the Nets for Stromile Swift. The Rockets are looking to procure a backup shooting guard. ... Of all continuously fabricated drivel churned out by ESPN.com (except for the real stuff it commandeers from other media outlets) its speculation regarding the Sonics and Knicks (Rashard Lewis and Danielle Pig Tails for Penny Hardaway and Nate "The Gadget" Robinson has to be most outlandish and least educated. Even Stephen Anal Smith doesn't want his stained name attached to it. ... In case you missed it, Phil Jackson was fined 25G by the NBA for expressing interest (while in Toronto, no less) in Chris Bosh two seasons from now. The league returned the money yesterday when Jackson articulated he had no interest whatsoever in any Knick.

    peter.vecsey@nypost.com

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

      http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/st...p-319349c.html


      Artest picture haunts Pacers

      Sunday, December 18th, 2005

      It's what, Day 6 of the Ron Artest soap opera? Frankly, we've lost track because Artest clearly isn't worth it.

      The NBA fined Artest $10,000 the other day for making comments detrimental to the league. The landmark punishment came after he told Indiana reporters that he wanted out of Pacer-land. Since then, his face has been the face of the NBA, with only a brief respite when someone who actually matters, Pat Riley, came back to coach the Miami Heat. When Ron Artest is the buzz of your league, it's a sad day.


      Normally, we'd put up a stink with the league for cracking down on a person's right to speak his mind. But in this case, we just wish David Stern had added another zero to Artest's fine. He should have made it a cool 100 grand, just to make a point. Players like Artest shouldn't have a soap box to make idiotic comments.


      Last night, he didn't appear at the Garden as the Pacers had just enough down the stretch to get by the pathetic Knicks, 102-96. Actually, the Knicks were far from the pathetic bunch we'd seen over the last three games. They were competitive, but that didn't make Larry Brown any happier. Nor should it have. He's finding it more difficult to go out in public these days.


      "I want to wear a baseball cap and sunglasses to my son's games," he said.


      Pretty soon, he may have to stop going out entirely. Brown knows he wasn't hired to make the Knicks just competitive. A few other coaches can do that, for a lot less than $10 million per season. Even as he's trying to reprogram a bunch of veterans who accept losing too easily, he needs to show results. This was a night and a game tailor-made for that.


      The Pacers lost Stephen Jackson for the second half with a hand injury. They didn't have another key player, Freddie Jones. And they're in the midst of the Artest saga. Or, as Jermaine O'Neal sighed afterward, "It's 'Days of Our Lives.' "


      Here's the latest twist. According to Jackson, Artest's personal public-relations man, Artest wants to get off the inactive list and return to the Pacers. In case you've forgotten, Jackson showed as much restraint and professionalism as Artest did that night in Auburn Hills. When the Pride of Queensbridge decided to run into the seats and take on the Pistons fans, Jackson was right there with him, throwing punches.


      "He wants to play with us," said Jackson, who talked to Artest Friday night. "He loves his teammates. He has no problem with his teammates. He told me that personally. He wants to come back and play."


      It's too late for that. The Pacers are done with Artest. He's on their persona non grata list. After all they did for him last season, backing him to the hilt when he and a few knucklehead teammates destroyed their season, they have a right to feel betrayed.


      They will still try to get the best deal they can for him, and that could take some time. But as long as they can win without him, why rush into a bad deal? Artest is viewed by some GMs as an even greater risk than Rasheed Wallace was a few years back. Wallace had a horrible reputation with fans and refs. But at least he got along with his teammates. Artest's demands for a trade stem from the fact that he's jealous of O'Neal's status and contract.


      After struggling to get his 31 points last night, O'Neal made it clear he isn't thinking about Artest's return.


      "Ron's not a part of the team right now," he said. "It's about the guys in this locker room that want to play for this team and want to win games."


      Artest can beg Indiana CEO Donnie Walsh to get his uniform back. But it won't happen. Artest has burned too many bridges and too many people.


      "We've moved on," coach Rick Carlisle said. "It's unfortunate. But we're just trying to win without him."


      They won again last night, but they're clearly not in the same class as Detroit, Miami or a few other teams. But as Brown would tell you, at least they're winning.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

        Here's David Aldridge


        On the NBA | Artest has repaid loyalty with a 'betrayal' of Pacers

        By David Aldridge
        Inquirer Staff Writer

        Wasn't it just a month ago that Larry Bird and Pacers forward Ron Artest were smiling on the cover of Sports Illustrated?

        Wasn't Artest saying, "I want to spend the rest of my life here," and that "people let you be yourself" in Indianapolis?

        Wasn't Bird, the team's president, saying, "Because of his intensity and desire to win, Ronnie's a guy I would pay money to watch play"?

        Time flies.

        Now, Artest has demanded a trade, saying he doesn't care for head coach Rick Carlisle's style and wants to play elsewhere - with the Knicks, if possible. And the Pacers are going to accommodate him.

        This is insane.

        Artest is just back on the court after his 73-game suspension last season for going into the stands and fighting with Detroit Pistons fans in Auburn Hills, Mich. The brawl wrecked the Pacers' season.

        After that fight, and all of his other incidents over the years, he's on the shortest of leashes with NBA commissioner David Stern, who fined him $10,000 on Thursday for making his trade demands public to the Indianapolis Star.

        "I was upset when he first did it," Pacers chief executive officer Donnie Walsh said last week. "I told him, 'Ronnie, why wouldn't you come in and talk to me? I'm here every day. I'm here at every practice. Why wouldn't you talk to me or Larry?' "

        Walsh now agrees with Artest that because of all the baggage, it's time for him to go.

        "If this guy makes the wrong move out there, everything freezes," Walsh said. "There's some truth to that."

        But the team is still seething. One member of the Pacers organization who did not want to be identified used the word betrayal, over and over, and it's not too strong.

        For years before the brawl in Auburn Hills, the Pacers backed Artest time and time again, publicly and privately. They tried to downplay the toxic relationship between Artest and Jermaine O'Neal. They arranged for counseling so that Artest could try to deal with his emotional issues.

        When Isiah Thomas coached the Pacers, he moved heaven and earth during all-star weekend in Atlanta - calling reporters well after midnight - to get an ESPN.com reporter to retract a story claiming Artest had been involved in a fight at a party in that city when he was hundreds of miles away at Walt Disney World with his kids.

        During last season's suspension, the Pacers let Artest practice with the team, and resisted league pressure to come down harder on him. It got to the point, Stern said on Jim Rome's radio show on Friday, that there was "a cooling in the relationship between our two offices - and, specifically, between [owner] Herb Simon and me."

        Artest's agent, Mark Stevens, acknowledges that the team has gone above and beyond for his client over the years.

        "The organization has been loyal as far as helping him develop as a human being, and getting him through his tough times," Stevens said in a telephone interview this week.

        But apparently, that isn't enough for Artest. Initially, Artest said he wanted to leave because he didn't get enough touches on offense and needed to score more if he was to see a lucrative contract in two years, when he becomes a free agent.

        But late in the week, the story changed. Now, it was that Artest didn't like the way the Pacers used him on defense.

        "You have an NBA all-star, who feels he can guard the great ones - LeBron [James], [Dirk] Nowitzki, Dwyane Wade," Stevens said Thursday. "I'm not a coach, so I don't know what's in the mind of a coach when he doesn't put his best defender on the other team's best offensive player."

        That claim is challenged by a Pacers source, who maintains Artest did guard James throughout their Thanksgiving night matchup. (James was just 6 of 20 from the floor.) Against Dallas on Dec. 6, the source claims, Artest started out on Nowitzki, but picked up two early fouls.

        The source allows that Artest did not primarily guard Wade during the teams' first two meetings.

        But all of that is neither here nor there.

        Look, Carlisle isn't a barrel of laughs. He's a serious guy who coaches seriously. But his loyalty to Artest can't be overstated.

        Before a preseason game, he was asked an innocuous question about Artest's behavior and spent the next 10 minutes defending him. Then, he insisted that everything he just said was off the record. Then, he had the reporter who asked the question tracked down and brought to his office, where he again defended Artest.

        It is true, as Stevens pointed out, that Artest's name has come up too often in trade rumors during the last year for there not to be any substance to it. The Pacers are not Caesar's wife in this deal; Artest, Stevens said, was only reacting to seeing the rumors of a deal sending him to Sacramento for Peja Stojakovic surfacing again.

        But the Pacers are far on the plus side of the ledger compared to Artest.

        Soon enough, some desperate team will pull the trigger on Artest. He's the best on-ball defender in the league, and one of the toughest checks around at the other end. He's a top-10 player when he's on his game. He makes a mediocre team good and a good team really good.

        Just don't count on it lasting very long.


        http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/s...printstory.jsp

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

          http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/ar...rticle=3320271


          Artest trade: Big deal or no deal?

          By Adam Thompson and Marc J. Spears
          Denver Post Staff Writers
          DenverPost.com

          In a nutshell, the status report for a potential trade of Ron Artest to the Nuggets - or anywhere else - reads: a factory's worth of smoke, still no fire.

          Nuggets general manager Kiki Vandeweghe confirmed he has talked to Indiana about the swingman who seems to have the word "volatile" surgically attached to his name. But Vandeweghe said talks have not reached the point where either team has a decision to make.

          "I wish there were some excitement, but there's nothing really happening," he said.

          Artest has not played for the Pacers since he expressed his wish for a trade in The Indianapolis Star last week, and Indiana president Donnie Walsh reportedly has heard inquiries about his availability from two-thirds of the NBA.

          But Artest's agent, Mark Stevens, said Saturday that rumors are outpacing the truth.

          Asked whether Artest might like Denver, Stevens told The Post: "We're not going to put the buggy before the horse. It's not a matter of whether he's going to be happy here. Let's see if he gets traded first."

          Stevens told The Associated Press on Saturday that he is still holding out hope for a resolution to keep Artest in Indianapolis: "We're waiting to hear from Donnie Walsh ... and hope this can be resolved to where there won't have to be a trade."

          That being said, it appears likely the Pacers might involve two or more other teams to make a trade work.

          One scenario from within the league involves Denver sending Earl Watson and Nene to Atlanta, the Hawks sending Al Harrington to the Pacers and Indiana shipping Artest to the Nuggets. Another scenario substitutes the Los Angeles Clippers' Corey Maggette for Watson and Nene. Lower-salaried Pacers like guard Anthony Johnson or former Colorado center David Harrison could also be involved to fit league salary-cap restrictions.

          Speaking through manager Joe Santos, Nene, who is not with the Nuggets on the road while recovering from right knee surgery, said of the trade talk, "I have no comment on the things I have no control over. My recovery is on schedule, which I'm happy about."

          Atlanta general manager Billy Knight would not comment on the rumors when approached by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

          Vandeweghe would not discuss specifics, either.

          "There's always been speculation on all our players," he said. "All that says is they are valuable and people like them. That's what I tell our players. ... To me most of the time speculation is OK because of the interest from fans, but not when it affects players and the way they are playing. Hopefully, it doesn't do that."

          At least so far, Vandeweghe does not have to worry about Watson's feelings.

          The guard, who has been the subject of trade rumors almost from the day he signed with Denver, has averaged 15 points in his past three games with fellow point guard Earl Boykins sidelined with a hamstring injury.

          Adam Thompson can be reached at 303-820-5447 or athompson@denverpost.com.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

            http://celtics.bostonherald.com/celt...06&format=text


            Pacers’ hell only hotter
            By Mark Murphy/ NBA Notes
            Sunday, December 18, 2005 - Updated: 01:43 AM EST

            After the 2004-05 season from hell - one in which Indiana still managed to win 44 games and reach the second round of the playoffs - the folks in Conseco Fieldhouse probably thought they were subsequently equipped to survive anything.

            Then came Ron Artest, with his latest blast from bizarro world, and a whole new season has been infected.

            Within the context of the team, Artest has finally reached the toxicity level of, oh, Terrell Owens, perhaps? Even more? You could make that argument.

            And the Pacers, ultimately drained last year by the onslaught of suspensions and injuries, are just about to put those survival skills to use again.

            The problem this time around is that they don’t have the noble Reggie Miller to calm the locker room and set the right example.

            Instead, this is now Jermaine O’Neal’s team.

            And on nights like last Wednesday’s listless loss in Boston, when O’Neal couldn’t count an inside basket among his 14 points on 5-for-19 shooting, the big guy’s words are going to ring hollow.

            But at least he’s trying.

            From bidding good riddance to Artest - who was fined $10,000 for his public trade request, an interesting new focus by the NBA’s deans of discipline - to his outspoken views on the NBA age limit and dress code, O’Neal is welcoming off-court attention with more gusto than ever.

            Can his front-and-center presence save a team expected to regroup for a long-awaited run at the Eastern Conference title?

            Considering that the Pacers had won two straight over Washington and Memphis without Artest prior to their Boston visit, perhaps this new cause for bonding together will ultimately work.

            First, if course, president Donnie Walsh and the currently Euro-tripping Larry Bird have to find something close to market value for Artest - a player that Bird has repeatedly called a “top 15 player,” and one for whom he expects equal market value.

            Artest is also a bargain, with just over $8 million coming to him next season. That could necessitate some throw-ins to make a deal for another big name work, if that is indeed how Bird and Walsh decide to proceed.

            But until the day this new member arrives, the Pacers will be as stripped down as they are ambitious.

            “The natural progression is for him to step up with Reggie not here, and he does it very well,” Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said of O’Neal’s step to the forefront. “It’s been an up-and-down season, with great wins and bad losses, and through that your internal leadership has to be very strong.

            “It appeared very obvious while (O’Neal) was in Portland that this could have the makings of something great. I’m very pleased that eight or nine years later that he’s done it the right way. He’s had his way. He’s paid his dues.”

            And now that Artest has chosen to leave the scene, so be it.

            A Stirling effort

            Imagine Donald Stirling right now, with a rare opportunity to gloat.

            His Clippers headed into Friday night leading Phoenix by a game in the Pacific Division. Though they had lost three straight games, they were still Stirling’s best entry in, well, 19 seasons, to be exact.

            The last time the Clippers looked this good on paper, the lineup included Norm Nixon, Marques Johnson, the pre-knee injury Derek Smith, a 300-pound Goliath named James Donaldson, rookie Benoit Benjamin and none other than Cedric Maxwell, freshly traded for Bill Walton.

            Many of the aforementioned players - with the hot scoring Smith never the same after knee surgery - never made it past the first third of the season.

            But the potential was there.

            “Derek went down first, after we went 5-0, Marques went down with a back injury, I pulled a hamstring, and then we lost some crazy amount of games,” Maxwell said. “But Derek was a big-time scorer.”

            And that mighty Clippers edition opened the season with the inaugural game in Sacramento’s Arco Arena.

            “I remember they had a symphony playing outside,” Maxwell said. “They had violins, cellos, all of that. I remember thinking, ‘Are we here to play basketball or go to a concert?’

            “But we played really well. We had two good centers - Benoit Benjamin and James Donaldson. Kareem (Abdul-Jabbar) didn’t like playing against Donaldson. He was mean.”

            Alas, Stirling’s main dictum - trading off talent once it became too expensive - came into play later that season when Donaldson was shipped to Houston.

            “Yeah, we got Kurt Nimphius for him - Kurt Nimphius,” said Maxwell, shaking his head. “That was a crazy trade. I’m thinking, ‘What the hell is this?’ Kurt Nimphius went to his first practice, and he had a damned parrot on his arm.”

            No Raptor rapture

            Not a lot of respect finds its way to Rob Babcock’s door these days.

            The Toronto general manager, who started off this season on the wrong foot by candidly noting that the Raptors probably wouldn’t be as good as last year’s 33-49 team, now admits he wears earplugs during home games.

            And if that’s not bad enough, other coaches now openly covet what little talent actually exists on the Toronto roster.

            The NBA fined the Lakers $25,000 last week for comments by coach Phil Jackson, who said he had interest in the Raptors’ Chris Bosh - a player still under contract.



            ]

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

              http://www.boston.com/sports/basketb...artest?mode=PF


              QUICK SHOTS
              Should the Celtics trade for Ron Artest?
              December 18, 2005

              PETER MAY
              Ron Artest on the Celtics? With all those impressionable pups? On the team with a code of conduct? Yeah, that's going to work. There's a reason it has taken the Pacers more than a few days to relocate their two-way star. He's certifiable. He couldn't make it work for Indiana, an older, more established team, under conditions that most felt were ideal for him. Many of us figured that Artest would return from his 73-game suspension a chastened, humbler soul. Instead, he's calling out coach Rick Carlisle for not getting enough touches. If Danny Ainge even makes a call to try to trade for this guy, he should have his phone privileges revoked.

              DAN SHAUGHNESSY
              By all means, the Celtics should go after Artest. The Green don't have enough talent to get the job done on a regular basis and Artest is one of the top 10 players in the league. He can rebound and defend like a young Dennis Rodman, and he can also score. Unfortunately, he brings some Rodmanesque baggage with him. Were these the talent-laden Celtics of the 1980s, it would be a mistake to introduce a head case such as Artest. But the Celtics cannot afford to turn away from Artest's talent. Before the season I would have said it was OK to deal Paul Pierce for him, but Pierce is a new man. So keep Pierce and package Ricky Davis and some kids (not Al Jefferson) and bring Artest to Boston.

              SHIRA SPRINGER
              No one questions the talent of Ron Artest. This is about his temper and temperament. For that reason, the Celtics should stay away from him. It says a lot when Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh plans to keep Artest on the inactive list for the rest of the season if he cannot work out a trade. At the very best, Artest would be an unwelcome distraction for a young, inconsistent team. At worst, he would be a detrimental influence. If that sounds shortsighted, consider that earlier this season Artest mentioned retiring in a few years to pursue a boxing career. Even though the Celtics already have a Brain Doctor, they would need a full-time psychiatrist for Artest.

              BOB RYAN
              Whoever gets Artest takes the T.O. Oath, which is as follows: I hereby swear not to complain for so much as a millisecond when and if this man reverts to well-established form and becomes an intolerable jerk. I will take the whole package, without complaint, so help me God. OK, then. Yes. Give them Ricky Davis and maybe an '06 No. 1 (Boston has two), and get this unique force. I mean, if it blows up in their face, what have they lost? It's not as if they're going anywhere this year.

              JACKIE MacMULLAN
              The Celtics should trade for Ron Artest. Of course it is a huge gamble, but unless you are comfortable with a first-round-and-out pattern for Boston (or, in the case of this season, a very real scenario of not making the postseason at all), the Celtics need to roll the dice. A player of Artest's caliber will not be available to them any other way. So give up Mark Blount or Ricky Davis -- not Paul Pierce. If the experiment fails, Artest walks in two years and those of us who called for the bad boy will admit our mistake.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                One scenario from within the league involves Denver sending Earl Watson and Nene to Atlanta, the Hawks sending Al Harrington to the Pacers and Indiana shipping Artest to the Nuggets. Another scenario substitutes the Los Angeles Clippers' Corey Maggette for Watson and Nene. Lower-salaried Pacers like guard Anthony Johnson or former Colorado center David Harrison could also be involved to fit league salary-cap restrictions.


                Could this explain DH's DNP's

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                  If Donnie is looking to get Big Al, I think he'll get him. Earl Watson and Nene sure does look good for the Hawks.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                    Thanks UB.
                    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                      Around the NBA: Teams' pursuit of Artest very surprising
                      By Steve Luhm
                      Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

                      It's a corny old joke, but it certainly applies.
                      Take Ron Artest.
                      Please.
                      This week, Artest stabbed the Indiana Pacers right between the shoulder blades by blasting coach Rick Carlisle and demanding to be traded.
                      "Coach's offense is a distraction."
                      "Why keep fighting the coach?"
                      "I believe coach didn't want me here."
                      "He's constantly switching things up and it's confusing."

                      It's certainly a good thing Carlisle and the Pacers supported Artest like few others would have following last year's ugly brawl in the stands. Otherwise, he would have really let them have it.

                      Of course, anyone who has followed the NBA should not be surprised by anything Rodman Jr. does.

                      He is the poster child for the sizable group of players who believe making a handsome living playing professional basketball is a preordained right, not the privilege of a lucky few.

                      Artest has misbehaved many, many times.
                      Usually, he skates. Like Rodman. Like Rasheed Wallace. Like Jason Williams. Like Allen Iverson. Like . . .

                      Unfortunately, the list goes on and on.

                      That's why nobody should be surprised that 15 or 20 teams have already called Pacer boss Donnie Walsh and asked about acquiring the now-available Artest.

                      Despite the fact he went into the stands and punched a fan - despite the fact he called out a coach who savagely defended him in the aftermath of the worst brawl in league history - Ron Artest is a wanted man.

                      Let me put that another way.
                      Plenty of team officials still want Ron Artest to play basketball for them.
                      Just win, baby.

                      When he coached in Chicago, the Lakers' Phil Jackson got some mileage out of Rodman Sr. So it's logical L.A. might be one of the teams interested in acquiring Artest, possibly in a deal involving Lamar Odom.

                      Jackson does not sound opposed to the idea.
                      "I estimate [Artest] perhaps higher than other people," he said. "I think he's a terrific player. He adds a big dimension to every game he plays in."

                      Just don't show up in a wedding dress.

                      Or with Madonna riding shotgun on your motorcycle.

                      Or with more nose rings than a heavy metal band.

                      Besides Los Angeles, there are some other destinations that seem logical for Artest.

                      Miami coach Pat Riley - with help from Shaquille O'Neal - probably feels he can mold Artest into a useful part of an already championship-caliber team.

                      New Jersey, Cleveland, Golden State, Atlanta and Toronto also have at least semi-serious interest in Artest.

                      Meanwhile, Dallas, Philadelphia and New Orleans are in the minority. Officials from those teams have said - flat-out - that baby-sitting Artest isn't in their plans.

                      Asked about the possibility, Hornet coach Byron Scott said, "I've always thought I could coach anybody, but I don't know about Ron. Unbelievable talent, there's no question about that. [But] that organization stuck their neck out for him, backed him and was behind him 100 percent. If he wanted to get traded, that wasn't the right way of doing it. To blast off to the media just wasn't the right way."

                      Artest?

                      The wrong way?

                      At least a few people are paying attention.

                      http://www.sltrib.com/sports/ci_3321019
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                        good reads thanx.
                        al in pacer uniform vs. clips?
                        1 - 2, Tinsley's coming for you.
                        3 - 4, You're not a team no more.
                        5 - 6, He's gonna plead the 5th.
                        7 - 8, He's gonna stay out late.


                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                          Originally posted by larry
                          good reads thanx.
                          al in pacer uniform vs. clips?
                          I could live with that!

                          Here's another scenario, Knicks lead coffee maker and Bird hater, Thomas, has already dialed ATL and Toronto and told them he'd like to make a deal with them if Artest is traded to them. Thomas, the genius who doesn't stop for traffic cops, is admittedly perplexed because NOW Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh has stated publicly that without a deal that works for us, Artest is mixin beats full time this season. lol!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                            This just confirms my suspicions from the other day. I think the Hawks would want Wilcox and a pick first, but if either LA or Denver is willing to send their respective packages, I think Atlanta would do it. I'm happy to get Al back if this works out.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Sunday articles about Pacers trade stuff

                              I can't believe all those Boston guys want Ron. Ainge is doing a good job building that team in the draft. Sure, his FA signings were stupid, but they've got a good foundation and, with a couple more moves, could be really good in a couple years. Why blow it all up with Ronnie?

                              [edit] Billy Knight would be stupid not to take that Watson/Nene deal. What's the salary numbers on that? Would we send both AJ and DH to Denver?

                              [answer] I looked it up, and looks like an either/or situation. If we do that, I sure hope we get a Childress as well.
                              Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                              Comment

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