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Interesting poll on RATS board

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  • #16
    Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Ahem... POOH Richardson...
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

      Originally posted by Jay@Section204
      I must live in a bizarre little world. I always liked McKey and Jalen's certainly one of my five favorite Pacers of the NBA era.
      I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

      And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
      sigpic
      "It's a league game, Smokey"

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

        Originally posted by abington
        I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

        And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
        I wasn't online then, but I was certainly a MSA & Conseco Fieldhouse regular. I was a big advocate that Jalen was indeed our best player for the 99 and 99-2000 seasons. Reggie was willing to defer because he knew it, too. And Jalen was willing to let crunch time still be "Miller time" - which ultimately hampered Jalen's personal career development. Maybe he would've liked more shots at crunch time, but he never once pulled a Scottie Pippen-like stunt when the play was called for Reggie.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

          Originally posted by abington
          I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

          And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
          You forget, it was Peck and I, both. The high point came when the Pacers were ravaged by injuries and LB literally asked Derrick to help pick up the load. Peck can tell it best, but Peck refered to Derrick's response as the "I am what I am" speech. Derrick basically told the media that he was who he was and he wasn't going to try and score more because that wasn't him.

          What happened to "I'll try"? "I'll do what I can to help the team"?

          I grew to really dislike Derrick not because he wouldn't shoot, but because quite a few times he would be wide open, clock ticking down.....and he'd throw the ball to someone else. I lost count of how many near shot clock violations he caused us, or forced a teammate to heave up a rushed shot because Derrick treated the ball like a hot potato. It went beyond exasperating. He actually affected our offensive flow to our detriment.

          Jalen was just the opposite. He'd play D when he felt like it. If there was a marquee matchup, he'd play his butt off on both ends of the court, then take a defensive vacation for the next 5 or 6 games. Jalen played D when he felt like it and it hurt us. Never mind the times he would stand and argue with a ref as the other team started a fast break. Or when he'd have his own agenda and act a bit like Stephen Jackson when he decides he's going to shoot no matter what cause he's getting toasted by his defensive assignment. Stop and think about it a minute. Isn't one of your strongest memories of Jalen watching him with that screwed up whiney look on his face? He was always complaining. :shakehead

          He never wanted to do the dirty work. He knew the spotlight shown brightest on scorers, so that's what he did, to the detriment of rounding out the rest of his game.

          I knkew you guys may think this is funny, but part of my ire at both of those guys has to do with not maximizing their potential. They could have helped this franchise immensely by trying to take their games to another level, but they chose not to.

          Look at Reggie. He went from a three point specialist, to adding a midrange game, with that great floater, to improving his D....he evolved.

          Jalen and Derrick had their comfort zone and and refused to grow and help the team. I can't root for players like that. That's why I don't like either guy.
          Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

            Originally posted by Skaut_Ech
            You forget, it was Peck and I, both. The high point came when the Pacers were ravaged by injuries and LB literally asked Derrick to help pick up the load. Peck can tell it best, but Peck refered to Derrick's response as the "I am what I am" speech. Derrick basically told the media that he was who he was and he wasn't going to try and score more because that wasn't him.

            What happened to "I'll try"? "I'll do what I can to help the team"?

            I grew to really dislike Derrick not because he wouldn't shoot, but because quite a few times he would be wide open, clock ticking down.....and he'd throw the ball to someone else. I lost count of how many near shot clock violations he caused us, or forced a teammate to heave up a rushed shot because Derrick treated the ball like a hot potato. It went beyond exasperating. He actually affected our offensive flow to our detriment.

            Jalen was just the opposite. He'd play D when he felt like it. If there was a marquee matchup, he'd play his butt off on both ends of the court, then take a defensive vacation for the next 5 or 6 games. Jalen played D when he felt like it and it hurt us. Never mind the times he would stand and argue with a ref as the other team started a fast break. Or when he'd have his own agenda and act a bit like Stephen Jackson when he decides he's going to shoot no matter what cause he's getting toasted by his defensive assignment. Stop and think about it a minute. Isn't one of your strongest memories of Jalen watching him with that screwed up whiney look on his face? He was always complaining. :shakehead

            He never wanted to do the dirty work. He knew the spotlight shown brightest on scorers, so that's what he did, to the detriment of rounding out the rest of his game.

            I knkew you guys may think this is funny, but part of my ire at both of those guys has to do with not maximizing their potential. They could have helped this franchise immensely by trying to take their games to another level, but they chose not to.

            Look at Reggie. He went from a three point specialist, to adding a midrange game, with that great floater, to improving his D....he evolved.

            Jalen and Derrick had their comfort zone and and refused to grow and help the team. I can't root for players like that. That's why I don't like either guy.

            Well I WAS a regular reader of your movie reviews back in the day .
            I can't really disagree with this post. I began to hate Jalen during the Isiah years. I thought he was a disaster at the 1 and we all know the rest.

            As for Derrick, both Larry Brown and Larry Bird seemed to love the guy. He was passive at times offensively, but I don't mind those types of players nearly as much as the ballhog-blackhole types that wreck your offense such as SJax or Croshere (2001-2004). And unlike pretty much everyone on this team not named Tinsley, he COULD pass the ball and could hit an open cutter or open shooter.
            sigpic
            "It's a league game, Smokey"

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

              Originally posted by abington
              Well I WAS a regular reader of your movie reviews back in the day .
              I can't really disagree with this post. I began to hate Jalen during the Isiah years. I thought he was a disaster at the 1 and we all know the rest.

              As for Derrick, both Larry Brown and Larry Bird seemed to love the guy. He was passive at times offensively, but I don't mind those types of players nearly as much as the ballhog-blackhole types that wreck your offense such as SJax or Croshere (2001-2004). And unlike pretty much everyone on this team not named Tinsley, he COULD pass the ball and could hit an open cutter or open shooter.
              Derrick was a little like Tayshaun Prince....but more passive on offense....but a great passer and great fundamentals. Good length, quick defender, always able to shut down an athletic scoring threat. We could use him now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                I happen to agree with Derrick that he was what he was. No shame in that.

                Jalen, on the other hand, thought he was something that he was not--an All Star talent. (Donnie may have been wrong in thinking Jalen was as well.) I didn't hate Jalen but I thought he needed to go.

                Generally, I support all Pacers but then again I am a sunshine man.
                "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                  Originally posted by Arcadian
                  Jalen, on the other hand, thought he was something that he was not--an All Star talent.
                  IMO Jalen was (maybe still is) an all-star talent. The problem is, he had the talent but never gave the effort so he never became an all-star player.
                  The poster formerly known as Rimfire

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                    Jalen? Jalen Rose!?! El Matador? He was a favorite?????? He was one of the whinniest sulkers we ever had. I hated him from the time we traded for him.
                    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                      Originally posted by DisplacedKnick
                      IMO Jalen was (maybe still is) an all-star talent. The problem is, he had the talent but never gave the effort so he never became an all-star player.
                      I won't argue that he didn't have the talent. I should have said player instead of talent.
                      "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                      "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                        Originally posted by abington
                        And unlike pretty much everyone on this team not named Tinsley, he COULD pass the ball and could hit an open cutter or open shooter.
                        Saras?
                        You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                          Part of (but not all) Jalen's problem was that the Pacers Nation was not ready to have somebody other than Reggie be the best player on the team.

                          Heck, I wanted Jalen to shoot more often than he did. I thought he deferred to the team/ Reggie too much.
                          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                          And life itself, rushing over me
                          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                            Originally posted by ABADays
                            Jalen? Jalen Rose!?! El Matador? He was a favorite?????? He was one of the whinniest sulkers we ever had. I hated him from the time we traded for him.

                            Thank you...me too.
                            Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

                              Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                              Part of (but not all) Jalen's problem was that the Pacers Nation was not ready to have somebody other than Reggie be the best player on the team.

                              Heck, I wanted Jalen to shoot more often than he did. I thought he deferred to the team/ Reggie too much.

                              For all of JRose's shooting ability he more than made up for it with his preference to carp at the zebras while his man ran up court for an easy layup.

                              I will say it was absolutely the most fun I've ever had when Reggie and Jalen would get on a 3 pt barrage and then Croshere would nail one too. I saw it several times and almost wet myself each time.
                              Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                              Comment

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