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Thread: Jay's dream trade

  1. #1
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Jay's dream trade

    With the Vince Carter replaced by a defensive player rumor,

    I'd love to see Ron + whatever it took to work $$ wise to NJ, Carter to San Antonio, and Ginobolli to the Pacers.

    I know it'll never, ever happen.

    But the longer this progresses, the more I wonder if its going to be a multi-team deal?
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  2. #2
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    We ain't gettin' Manu. Might as well banish that thought from yer head now.

  3. #3
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Manu is a Duncan jock sniffer. Without Duncan, Manu's just a greasy flopper. If any deal with the Nets goes down, I'd much rather have Vince Carter, who's a much better talent.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown Seth
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    Manu is a Duncan jock sniffer. Without Duncan, Manu's just a greasy flopper. If any deal with the Nets goes down, I'd much rather have Vince Carter, who's a much better talent.
    What do the stats tell us?

  5. #5
    Naptown Seth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    What do the stats tell us?
    Stats (which by the way measure PRODUCTION - the single most important aspect of basketball) tell me that Vince Carter is the better player. My near-genuis level basketball IQ also tells me Vince Carter is the better player.
    Vince Carter's the better player.

    And by the way, J.O. and our supporting cast aren't good enough to win a championship with Manu. They are however good enough to win a championship with a motivated Vince Carter.

  6. #6
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Here's a good stat:

    Manu Ginobili: 2 Rings.
    Vince Carter: 0 Rings.

  7. #7
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Here's a good stat:

    Manu Ginobili: 2 Rings.
    Vince Carter: 0 Rings.
    And ofcourse the fact that Manu plays with arguably the MVP of the league and a great supporting cast has nothing to do with that...

  8. #8
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown Seth
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    Manu is a Duncan jock sniffer. Without Duncan, Manu's just a greasy flopper. If any deal with the Nets goes down, I'd much rather have Vince Carter, who's a much better talent.
    A "greasy" flopper? Is that in reference to his hispanic ethnicity?

  9. #9
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Manu sure looked to me like the best player at the World Championships, and he held his own at the Olympics.

    I'd be careful about underestimating him when - if nothing else - his stats show just how much he is willing to sacrifice for the team.

    He's a winner, and he's a heckuva basketball player, and he raises his game at crunch time. You can't come up with any stat that disproves it. And anybody that's actually taken the time to watch him play ball knows it.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  10. #10
    Naptown Seth
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    Quote Originally Posted by [EMAIL="Jay@Section204"
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    Jay@Section204[/EMAIL]]Manu sure looked to me like the best player at the World Championships, and he held his own at the Olympics.

    I'd be careful about underestimating him when - if nothing else - his stats show just how much he is willing to sacrifice for the team.

    He's a winner, and he's a heckuva basketball player, and he raises his game at crunch time. You can't come up with any stat that disproves it. And anybody that's actually taken the time to watch him play ball knows it.
    I never said Manu wasn't a good player - he is. But he's not a great player, and he and J.O. aren't good enough to bring us a championship anytime soon. Say what you will about Carter, but if he's playing up to his ability, he and J.O. have what it takes to bring the title to Indy. The question is, would he play up to his ability? I know there's been times he hasn't in the past, however that was on a team going nowhere in a hurry in which the fans all turned on him. Put him in a winning enviorment with supportive fans, and I have a strong hunch we'd get the non-slacking Vince Carter.
    High risk, high reward.

  11. #11
    Naptown Seth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    A "greasy" flopper? Is that in reference to his hispanic ethnicity?
    Actually, it's in reference to his hair. Steve Nash has greasy hair too btw.

  12. #12
    Member DEEman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown Seth
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    And ofcourse the fact that Manu plays with arguably the MVP of the league and a great supporting cast has nothing to do with that...
    In other words, facts/statistics alone are almost useless, because even i can score 25 points in the paint when Allen, Peja and Croshere are standing around the arc
    Proud owner of 'Dutch Pacers'

  13. #13
    Naptown Seth
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEman
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    In other words, facts/statistics alone are almost useless, because even i can score 25 points in the paint when Allen, Peja and Croshere are standing around the arc
    I'm not seeing the corelation.

  14. #14
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Probably because you're being mocked again, in a sly yet humerous way.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  15. #15
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    I'd like to see Manu here, too.

    But it won't happen.
    Super Bowl XLI Champions
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  16. #16
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Here's a good stat:

    Manu Ginobili: 2 Rings.
    Vince Carter: 0 Rings.

    I'm not trying to downplay Manu or anything, however the stat you just produced isn't really a very good stat because

    Judd Beuchler: 3 rings
    Reggie Miller: 0 rings


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  17. #17
    sweabs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I'm not trying to downplay Manu or anything, however the stat you just produced isn't really a very good stat because

    Judd Beuchler: 3 rings
    Reggie Miller: 0 rings
    Darko Milicic: 1 ring.
    Reggie Miller: 0 rings.

    I know, it can be misconstrued...but I still think the point gets across.

  18. #18
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Could you imagine a Saras/Ginobili backcourt? Ohhhh man I hate myself for even thinking of that, that backcourt would be talented, fun to watch, and most importantly, would consist of two guys that are flat out winners.

    And I like Manu's hair when it is long, that's some awesome stuff.

    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    tip: don't tell your wife that you are searching the internet to find the best 3-way you can find.

    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  20. #20
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Don't make me move that post to the shout box.

    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  21. #21
    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Would be uber sweet... but it'll never happen.

  22. #22
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    Quote Originally Posted by [EMAIL="Jay@Section204"
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    Jay@Section204[/EMAIL]]Probably because you're being mocked again, in a sly yet humerous way.
    Oh no! I'm being mocked by people who don't even have 1/10th my basketball knowledge! Im so badly hurt!

    Here's the average Jay@Section204 post - "Let's trade Ron for Earl Watson!!! Sure, Earl couldnt even start over Jason Williams but I watched him play 6 minutes when the Grizzlies were on TNT back in March of 2003 and he was awesome!! That must mean he's great even though his measured production for his entire career, not to mention the fact thats hes never been given a starting position anywhere, says otherwise!!!"

    Production > Everything Else

    Period.

  23. #23
    Naptown Seth
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Darko Milicic: 1 ring.
    Reggie Miller: 0 rings.

    I know, it can be misconstrued...but I still think the point gets across.
    Yeah, the point that Tim Duncan is the best player in the league and can carry anyone to a championship.

    Remember boys and girls, Duncan won a championship when Manu was still a greasy haired little punk playing in Europe. Duncan also won another championship when Manu was nothing more than Stephen Jackson's seat warmer.

    Duncan won the championship, Manu was just lucky enough to be his sidekick. Manu could be replaced with atleast 15 perimeter players in the NBA and the Spurs would've still won the championship last year.
    Take your pick: Paul Pierce, LeBron James, Tracy McGrady, Ron Artest, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson, Shawn Marion, Andrei Kirilenko, Joe Johnson, Ricky Davis, Larry Hughes, Carmelo Anthony, Rip Hamilton, Jason Richardson, Corey Maggette, Lamar Odom, Michael Redd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Peja Stojakovic

    Manu is the new Kenyon Martin. A good - but not great - player who get's massively overrated because his team wins, due almost entirely to a superior teammate. (Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan)

    I was saying the same thing about Martin back then and people were saying the same thing you all are now - that I'm an idiot. But I was right then, and I'm right now. Just give it a year or two, Duncan's already declining a good deal. Soon the Spurs entire team will decline, and you all will see just how unspecial Manu Ginobili is.

  24. #24
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    You're a funny guy.

    Manu was easily the best player on the court for three of the Spurs four wins in The Finals last spring.

    What can't Manu do well? Nothing. Well, maybe he doesn't rebound especially well even for a guard, but that's minor.

    He handles the ball well with either hand, is an excellent finisher, had a nice touch from the outside (he's a bit streaky from three point range but he's also smart enough to step in, too), has a great stop-and-pop move, is good at finding the open man, willing to defer to Duncan and even Parker (and Horry in the fourth quarter), plays hard on defense to overcome his average footspeed, and as mentioned he's won other stuff without Duncan (and I believe *against* Duncan for that matter) and he's reportedly a great locker-room guy.

    The only people that don't put Manu in the top-fifteen (he's easily in my top-ten) in the league are the ones who just can't comprehend how much he *sacrifices* his individual game because he is playing alongside the best individual player in the league.

    But if people are saying you're an idiot, its because your methodology to evaluate players is woefully inadequate.

    And, by the way, if you put Manu alongside either KG or JO, that team would probably beat a team of Duncan and any possible sidekick.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  25. #25
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Jay's dream trade

    No, you're being mocked by people with 10x your basketball knowledge, but you don't even have enough basketball knowledge to understand it.

    I'm smart enough to say that if I haven't seen a player enough, that I don't have an opinion of him.

    Too bad you're apparently not...

    I was trying to help you out. If you're too foolish/ stubborn to accept it, then that's your problem. Good luck.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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