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Thread: Interesting poll on RATS board

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Interesting poll on RATS board

    I'm not going to start it here but thought a poll on the STAR board posed an interesting question.

    something to the effect of:

    Is Stephen Jackson the least popular Pacer ever?

    (Now I would assume it would mean someone who had played more than 3-4 games . IOW a regular)
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    I thought AJ was

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Ever's a long time.

    You have McKey - and I bet Jalen Rose would get strong support too. And right now I'm not sure but I think Artest would win.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Maybe Jax is taking the hit b/c he is the SG who followed the legend. In any event, he is a complete A$$. At the time, I thought the trade to Atlanta was a good one. Now, I think it was a waste of time. I hope his days in a Pacer uniform numbered.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold
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    Maybe Jax is taking the hit b/c he is the SG who followed the legend. In any event, he is a complete A$$. At the time, I thought the trade to Atlanta was a good one. Now, I think it was a waste of time. I hope his days in a Pacer uniform numbered.

    Certainly if we knew (yes I know many of you will swear that you knew) Ron was going to get suspended for 73 games one season and then the next season ask for a trade, I don't think Al would have ever been traded.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Certainly if we knew (yes I know many of you will swear that you knew) Ron was going to get suspended for 73 games one season and then the next season ask for a trade, I don't think Al would have ever been traded.
    I agree Jax would not be a Pacer right now had we a crystal ball. I think we would be better off with Al...and I just wonder if Reggie would have stuck it out one more year. In any event, there is NO WAY I would trade for Al without also moving Jax. Scary thoughts come to mind with those two and JO on the court together. I doubt each of them will be able to get their 20 shots in each game.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Ever's a long time.

    You have McKey - and I bet Jalen Rose would get strong support too. And right now I'm not sure but I think Artest would win.
    I must live in a bizarre little world. I always liked McKey and Jalen's certainly one of my five favorite Pacers of the NBA era.
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I must live in a bizarre little world. I always liked McKey and Jalen's certainly one of my five favorite Pacers of the NBA era.
    McKey was hated? I always loved his defensive intensity...back when there was no such thing in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    His reluctance to play offense, as he deffered to Reggie and Rik, drove some people batty. Thus, in message-board land, he's referred to by some as "Satan".

    Derrick was talented enough that he could've scored much more, and more importantly taken some of the load off Reggie and Rik.

    We'll never know if he was just willing to sacrifice his individual game for those guys, or if he was 'holding back'.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    Jalen's certainly one of my five favorite Pacers of the NBA era.
    Same here
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    Member indytoad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    I liked Jalen when Bird was coach...

    And how quickly everyone forgets the horror that was Ron Mercer.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    I'm just really disappointed in Jackson.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by indytoad
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    I liked Jalen when Bird was coach...

    And how quickly everyone forgets the horror that was Ron Mercer.

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    Fortunately, my move to Chicago co-incided with the beginning of the Isiah Thomas era, and it was before I bought TiVo. So I just didn't see many of the things that caused Pacers fans to turn on Jalen. Had I actually seen them, I'm sure he would've dropped down on my list.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Eddie Gill
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    I've never been a big Britton Johnsen fan.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Ahem... POOH Richardson...
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I must live in a bizarre little world. I always liked McKey and Jalen's certainly one of my five favorite Pacers of the NBA era.
    I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

    And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by abington
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    I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

    And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
    I wasn't online then, but I was certainly a MSA & Conseco Fieldhouse regular. I was a big advocate that Jalen was indeed our best player for the 99 and 99-2000 seasons. Reggie was willing to defer because he knew it, too. And Jalen was willing to let crunch time still be "Miller time" - which ultimately hampered Jalen's personal career development. Maybe he would've liked more shots at crunch time, but he never once pulled a Scottie Pippen-like stunt when the play was called for Reggie.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by abington
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    I agree. Ive been part of these boards since 1998 or so, and other than Peck, who admitedly has a lot of influence, I never saw much hate for McKey. He was always one of my favorites as I've always been a fan of defensive stoppers with high basketball IQ's (ie Pippen, Ron Harper etc).

    And Jalen was very popular until the switch to the point and the decline of the team. Certainly during the 97-98, 98-99, and 99-00 seasons, he was arguably our best player. And I say that as a Reggie lover.
    You forget, it was Peck and I, both. The high point came when the Pacers were ravaged by injuries and LB literally asked Derrick to help pick up the load. Peck can tell it best, but Peck refered to Derrick's response as the "I am what I am" speech. Derrick basically told the media that he was who he was and he wasn't going to try and score more because that wasn't him.

    What happened to "I'll try"? "I'll do what I can to help the team"?

    I grew to really dislike Derrick not because he wouldn't shoot, but because quite a few times he would be wide open, clock ticking down.....and he'd throw the ball to someone else. I lost count of how many near shot clock violations he caused us, or forced a teammate to heave up a rushed shot because Derrick treated the ball like a hot potato. It went beyond exasperating. He actually affected our offensive flow to our detriment.

    Jalen was just the opposite. He'd play D when he felt like it. If there was a marquee matchup, he'd play his butt off on both ends of the court, then take a defensive vacation for the next 5 or 6 games. Jalen played D when he felt like it and it hurt us. Never mind the times he would stand and argue with a ref as the other team started a fast break. Or when he'd have his own agenda and act a bit like Stephen Jackson when he decides he's going to shoot no matter what cause he's getting toasted by his defensive assignment. Stop and think about it a minute. Isn't one of your strongest memories of Jalen watching him with that screwed up whiney look on his face? He was always complaining.

    He never wanted to do the dirty work. He knew the spotlight shown brightest on scorers, so that's what he did, to the detriment of rounding out the rest of his game.

    I knkew you guys may think this is funny, but part of my ire at both of those guys has to do with not maximizing their potential. They could have helped this franchise immensely by trying to take their games to another level, but they chose not to.

    Look at Reggie. He went from a three point specialist, to adding a midrange game, with that great floater, to improving his D....he evolved.

    Jalen and Derrick had their comfort zone and and refused to grow and help the team. I can't root for players like that. That's why I don't like either guy.
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    You forget, it was Peck and I, both. The high point came when the Pacers were ravaged by injuries and LB literally asked Derrick to help pick up the load. Peck can tell it best, but Peck refered to Derrick's response as the "I am what I am" speech. Derrick basically told the media that he was who he was and he wasn't going to try and score more because that wasn't him.

    What happened to "I'll try"? "I'll do what I can to help the team"?

    I grew to really dislike Derrick not because he wouldn't shoot, but because quite a few times he would be wide open, clock ticking down.....and he'd throw the ball to someone else. I lost count of how many near shot clock violations he caused us, or forced a teammate to heave up a rushed shot because Derrick treated the ball like a hot potato. It went beyond exasperating. He actually affected our offensive flow to our detriment.

    Jalen was just the opposite. He'd play D when he felt like it. If there was a marquee matchup, he'd play his butt off on both ends of the court, then take a defensive vacation for the next 5 or 6 games. Jalen played D when he felt like it and it hurt us. Never mind the times he would stand and argue with a ref as the other team started a fast break. Or when he'd have his own agenda and act a bit like Stephen Jackson when he decides he's going to shoot no matter what cause he's getting toasted by his defensive assignment. Stop and think about it a minute. Isn't one of your strongest memories of Jalen watching him with that screwed up whiney look on his face? He was always complaining.

    He never wanted to do the dirty work. He knew the spotlight shown brightest on scorers, so that's what he did, to the detriment of rounding out the rest of his game.

    I knkew you guys may think this is funny, but part of my ire at both of those guys has to do with not maximizing their potential. They could have helped this franchise immensely by trying to take their games to another level, but they chose not to.

    Look at Reggie. He went from a three point specialist, to adding a midrange game, with that great floater, to improving his D....he evolved.

    Jalen and Derrick had their comfort zone and and refused to grow and help the team. I can't root for players like that. That's why I don't like either guy.

    Well I WAS a regular reader of your movie reviews back in the day .
    I can't really disagree with this post. I began to hate Jalen during the Isiah years. I thought he was a disaster at the 1 and we all know the rest.

    As for Derrick, both Larry Brown and Larry Bird seemed to love the guy. He was passive at times offensively, but I don't mind those types of players nearly as much as the ballhog-blackhole types that wreck your offense such as SJax or Croshere (2001-2004). And unlike pretty much everyone on this team not named Tinsley, he COULD pass the ball and could hit an open cutter or open shooter.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by abington
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    Well I WAS a regular reader of your movie reviews back in the day .
    I can't really disagree with this post. I began to hate Jalen during the Isiah years. I thought he was a disaster at the 1 and we all know the rest.

    As for Derrick, both Larry Brown and Larry Bird seemed to love the guy. He was passive at times offensively, but I don't mind those types of players nearly as much as the ballhog-blackhole types that wreck your offense such as SJax or Croshere (2001-2004). And unlike pretty much everyone on this team not named Tinsley, he COULD pass the ball and could hit an open cutter or open shooter.
    Derrick was a little like Tayshaun Prince....but more passive on offense....but a great passer and great fundamentals. Good length, quick defender, always able to shut down an athletic scoring threat. We could use him now.

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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    I happen to agree with Derrick that he was what he was. No shame in that.

    Jalen, on the other hand, thought he was something that he was not--an All Star talent. (Donnie may have been wrong in thinking Jalen was as well.) I didn't hate Jalen but I thought he needed to go.

    Generally, I support all Pacers but then again I am a sunshine man.
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    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian
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    Jalen, on the other hand, thought he was something that he was not--an All Star talent.
    IMO Jalen was (maybe still is) an all-star talent. The problem is, he had the talent but never gave the effort so he never became an all-star player.
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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Jalen? Jalen Rose!?! El Matador? He was a favorite?????? He was one of the whinniest sulkers we ever had. I hated him from the time we traded for him.
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    Default Re: Interesting poll on RATS board

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    IMO Jalen was (maybe still is) an all-star talent. The problem is, he had the talent but never gave the effort so he never became an all-star player.
    I won't argue that he didn't have the talent. I should have said player instead of talent.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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