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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

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Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Title of the Article
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Indianapolis Star

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

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  • One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    The Pacers do not enjoy the offensive system Carlisle runs. I know for the most part, they love Carlisle as their coach and you can't throw too much criticism towards a guy thats done as good of a job as he has, but its obvious to me that the guys simply don't "enjoy" playing right now.

    Here's what I've learned in business and I whole-heartedly think that this holds true in the world of sports as well:

    1. You have to have talented people working for and with you.

    2. You have to have "buy-in" from those same talented people.

    3. When those same people have ideas of their own, at times you have to try them even if the way you do things is working very well.

    Right now I think Carlisle has a significant amount of talent available to him. I also think that, other than Ron, the team buys into his concepts, especially on defense.

    The problem is that I don't think he's "given" enough on the offensive end to make the players feel like they have some ownership and responsibility for the offense. There's a big difference between, "doing what the coach says and its working" and "We're really clicking on offense right now."

    There's going to have to be some give and take on this team, especially if others aren't involved in the Artest deal. To get the most out of guys like Tinsley and Jackson, Rick has to open things up. He has to trust that they can clamp down on defense without slowing down the game offensively on EVERY possession.

    There's no doubt that Ron's been a HUGE problem for the Pacers, not only this year, not only last year, but since day one. But thats not the only problem right now and Rick needs to recognize that before this team has to scrap everything and rebuild.

  • #2
    Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    I agree, the offense needs to open up. Ron won't be the last to complain about Rick's offense, you can count on that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

      That 61-win offense vs Detroits defense is half the reason we lost the ECF (the other half being Detroit was just that good, but our offense was feeding their already terrific D; hence the 60s final scores).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

        Yeah, I never said a single thing bad about the offense until this week.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

          Originally posted by vapacersfan
          Fun, I dont remember saying that "you" didnt



          Yeah, I can insert poinless similes as well as the next person.

          There were all of two of three people who didnt like the offense, and even they werent opposed to it.

          Now Ron comes out, and about 100,000 people are opposed to it.
          13 to 1. Guess you win.

          ....

          Moving on, read what you wrote again

          "I do hate our micro-managed offense, and I do wish we would open it up, but I find it funny that no one has a problem with it until Artest comes out and says something, and now everyone is saying "Fire Rick"."

          Now how on earth did I get the impression that I did previously? Care to be civil, or just try to one up me?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

            The offense, when run properly works. Set plays are designed to get someone open. If we have players who care more about the team than themselves, the offense is a thing of beauty. All it takes is unselfish players and a willingness to move the ball, and move without the ball.

            That's one thing I've noticed a severe drop-off in since Reggie left. Motion. With Reggie, there's no one setting screens for anyone, no one running around the baseline is circles to and from the backcourt. In a set offense, you need motion, you need people who will work to get open, not wait for someone else to create.
            It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

              Originally posted by vapacersfan
              No, the reason we lost is because they were clearly a better team.

              I do hate our micro-managed offense, and I do wish we would open it up, but I find it funny that no one has a problem with it until Artest comes out and says something, and now everyone is saying "Fire Rick".

              Im just waiting for "firerickcarlisle.com"
              See, thats not my intention at all. I think Rick is an excellent coach and I wouldn't even consider firing him before the end of next season.

              I just believe for this team to take the next step, without Ron Artest, they need to get the guys having SOME fun on offense. Its far too workman-like and professional right now. They need some room to freelance and some new sets to run.

              Edit: To add on to this thought..you have to keep in mind that this is a team that went from devastated from losing the ECF to devastated after the brawl to devastated because the teammate they supported is abandoning them....Rick has to help them enjoy playing basketball again.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                I read things like they need to "open up" the offense. What in the heck does that mean.

                There are only two types of halfcourt offense run in the NBA. Read and react type offense or set play type offense. Clearly Rick runs a set play type offense.

                Flip Saunders, Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Byron Scott to name a few run a read and react type offense. Ask the Laker fans how that is working. But to run a read and react type offense you have to have very smart players.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

                  Originally posted by vapacersfan
                  Sorry, I didnt mean to hurt your feelings. Guess you didnt want anyone else to be able to use any similes. I remember that in the future....
                  You're being a child about it. I never said what smilies you should use. I rolled my eyes when I read what you wrote, and it fit with what I said. You decided to throw that in my face and then get click-happy in returning the same smilie. Throwing a little tantrum instead of just getting to my point.

                  I was being general, I guess you missed that point. ANd yes, it wasnt no one. It was all of one or two people.

                  Put I wont go to much in detail, you may just take it as me "one-upping" you.
                  When you say no one, I take it as no one. And get a grip.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                    First off, there are about 99% MORE businesses where the boss calls the shots. End of story. And they run just fine.
                    Secondly, Rick has said, ON MANY OCCASIONS, that he would like to open things up. But that requires DISCIPLINE and GOOD DECISIONS from your ball handlers and shooters. THEY HAVE NOT PROVEN THEMSELVES CONSISTANTLY CAPABLE OF THAT TO THIS POINT. (why do you think they've been down on Tins anyway?????????)
                    When and IF they ever get it. I expect we'll see a much more pedal to the metal offense.
                    Till then............

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                      Tinsley being out severely hinders the offense as well. We're pretty much stuck into a half court offense when AJ is running the point. I think we'd be running a little more if Tins were out there.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck
                        I read things like they need to "open up" the offense. What in the heck does that mean.

                        .
                        It means that if Carlisle doesn't give a little on his end, this won't be the last player openly stating that he doesn't want to play for him. He's losing "buy-in" by not taking the players' opinions seriously.

                        As it affects the actual offensive gameplan, all it takes is getting a few more pick-and-roll sets in the offense..hell thats like candy for basketball players. Players relish the opportunity to run the pick-and-roll...they want to get a mismatch out on the wing or post up on a smaller man or get open jumpers.

                        The worst part about it is that with Tinsley and JO, you have a perfect pick-and-roll tandem and I never see it....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                          This team simply doesn't have the skill nor are they disciplined enough to handle a less structured offense. They have no patience, falling in love with quick perimeter shots that brick far too often. The lack of perimeter shooting allows teams to collapse to the middle, daring us to hit jumpers while preventing cuts or easy post work. Our front line does not play typical post-up ball, using turnaround jumpers and finger rolls far more often than bulling their way to the basket for jams or followed-through lay-ins. We're not fast enough to beat teams on defensive rebounds and rushing to the basket for fast breaks, and even if we were teams would simply start sending men back early on defense to prevent such things and force us into half-court (like ... uhh ... DETROIT did). We don't move around without the ball enough to allow a free-flow during a half-court set.

                          So, how do you plan to implement this buckets-o'-fun offense?
                          BillS

                          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

                            Originally posted by Mr._Basketball
                            As it affects the actual offensive gameplan, all it takes is getting a few more pick-and-roll sets in the offense..hell thats like candy for basketball players. Players relish the opportunity to run the pick-and-roll...they want to get a mismatch out on the wing or post up on a smaller man or get open jumpers.

                            The worst part about it is that with Tinsley and JO, you have a perfect pick-and-roll tandem and I never see it....
                            WE SUCK AT THE PICK AND ROLL!

                            Let me say that again, with feeling.

                            WE SUCK AT THE PICK AND ROLL!

                            The ballhandler doesn't use the pick well (and Tinsley is extremely guilty of that). The pick comes too late, or too far into the strong side so there is plenty of room for the switch to get corrected before a shot can be taken - and, by the way, forcing the ball handler into a neat little trap when he bounces off the pick instead of using it.

                            Get some guys that use the damn thing properly when it is called, and then maybe I'd agree they should get the opportunity to use it more.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

                              Originally posted by BillS
                              This team simply doesn't have the skill nor are they disciplined enough to handle a less structured offense. They have no patience, falling in love with quick perimeter shots that brick far too often. The lack of perimeter shooting allows teams to collapse to the middle, daring us to hit jumpers while preventing cuts or easy post work. Our front line does not play typical post-up ball, using turnaround jumpers and finger rolls far more often than bulling their way to the basket for jams or followed-through lay-ins. We're not fast enough to beat teams on defensive rebounds and rushing to the basket for fast breaks, and even if we were teams would simply start sending men back early on defense to prevent such things and force us into half-court (like ... uhh ... DETROIT did). We don't move around without the ball enough to allow a free-flow during a half-court set.

                              So, how do you plan to implement this buckets-o'-fun offense?
                              This is seriously what drives me crazy about message boards. The people that take (not purposely mind you) one snippet of the point and run with it. No one is talking about overhauling the offense.....just tweaking it. Carlisle HAS to give a little to the players at this point. This has been as much of a burden on them as it has him over the last two years.

                              All he has to do is give a little...everyone knows that as a whole the team can't be trusted to run an intricate read-and-react system like PhilJax has the Lakers running, but no one is saying that they should.

                              Just give them SOME options....give the guys the opportunity to have some fun and play with a smile. Rick's system can continue to win this team many games. But Rick's system with player input and continued buy-in can take them back to the ECF and beyond. (assuming the right trade is made)

                              Comment

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