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Thread: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

  1. #26
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I read things like they need to "open up" the offense. What in the heck does that mean.

    There are only two types of halfcourt offense run in the NBA. Read and react type offense or set play type offense. Clearly Rick runs a set play type offense.

    Flip Saunders, Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Byron Scott to name a few run a read and react type offense. Ask the Laker fans how that is working. But to run a read and react type offense you have to have very smart players.
    Yup. We just need to get players who will actually run the play called, and not break it.
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  2. #27
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr._Basketball
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    Why exactly do you think that is? You have a ball-handler with a tremendous feel for the game. You have big men that can shoot out to 18 feet.

    Seems to me like maybe they just need to practice that instead of running a damn flex offense that can be run by a 7th grader.

    Rick's running a high school offense with professional players.

    First off, you have a ballhandler who has no clue how to run a pick and roll. Tinsley is a one-on-one point guard. He does not play the 2-man game well at all. He likes being isolated with his defender, and bringing an extra defender over to him seems to confuse him and irritate him.

    I don't think Tinsley ran a single pick and roll at Iowa St. His first time doing it in his entire life was probably the NBA.

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  3. #28
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    As for Rick's offense..... I did say this would happen, and the forum welcomed it with open arms, because ALL of you were completely fed up with Zeke's undisciplined style. Not %80, not %90, ALL of you. Now Rick is too discplined? Come on. THAT'S WHAT YOU BROUGHT HIM HERE FOR.

    I'm not going to lie and say it's fun to watch. But Neither was Larry Brown's "offensive coaching for dummies" style. They both won a lot of games.

    I'm going to come out and say it: I don't think Indiana has enough continuity for a wide-open offense. They have a lot more defenders than they do scorers. They also have a lot of guys that are reluctant to pass the ball, which you can't have if you're going to put the ball in their hands 50 times a game. In a flex offense, for example, the average player will pass the ball twice as much as he shoots it. It's all about moving the ball from side to side to get the open man the ball faster than the defense can react.

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  4. #29

    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    As for Rick's offense..... I did say this would happen, and the forum welcomed it with open arms, because ALL of you were completely fed up with Zeke's undisciplined style. Not %80, not %90, ALL of you. Now Rick is too discplined? Come on. THAT'S WHAT YOU BROUGHT HIM HERE FOR.

    I'm not going to lie and say it's fun to watch. But Neither was Larry Brown's "offensive coaching for dummies" style. They both won a lot of games.

    I'm going to come out and say it: I don't think Indiana has enough continuity for a wide-open offense. They have a lot more defenders than they do scorers. They also have a lot of guys that are reluctant to pass the ball, which you can't have if you're going to put the ball in their hands 50 times a game. In a flex offense, ofr example, the average players will pass the ball twice as much as he shoots it. It's all about moving the ball from side to side to get the open man the ball faster than the defense can react.
    This is true Kstat. But its getting better by the game. Just last night, when Jackson got injured, the team passed and moved the ball much better. Granger hit the open shot finally and the passing actually happened.
    But an hour or so later, Hibbert wrote on his Twitter account: "Love this coach [and] I love this team. We can go far this year if we play like that. 2night we played our hearts out. Just didn't get the win."

  5. #30
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    As for Rick's offense..... I did say this would happen, and the forum welcomed it with open arms, because ALL of you were completely fed up with Zeke's undisciplined style.
    That's not exactly true. The chorus was getting awfully loud from those against Isiah but he still had some supporters... still does for that matter.



    Not %80, not %90, ALL of you. Now Rick is too discplined? Come on. THAT'S WHAT YOU BROUGHT HIM HERE FOR.

    See above...



    I'm not going to lie and say it's fun to watch. But Neither was Larry Brown's "offensive coaching for dummies" style. They both won a lot of games.

    I'm going to come out and say it: I don't think Indiana has enough continuity for a wide-open offense.

    And now the shoe is on the other foot because I do remember Piston fans (can't say which side you fell on) during Rick's time there arguing for a more open offense and Pacer fans saying "you don't have the horses for it and Rick is milking what you do have".

    I'm not sure what that means unless someone wants to argue that Carlisle regresses and holds back his teams on the offensive end to the point they fall off the offensive radar.

    Our team is not put together well, and I don't think Carlisle has complete control or attention of the team. So whether we're seeing exactly what he wants from them, or what he's forced to accept or watch some players totally unravel, is a question that I have.

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  6. #31
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    And now the shoe is on the other foot because I do remember Piston fans (can't say which side you fell on) during Rick's time there arguing for a more open offense and Pacer fans saying "you don't have the horses for it and Rick is milking what you do have".
    ...and at that time, we DIDN'T have the weapons to go up and down.

    2013 Pacers Digest NBA 2K13 Champion (Xbox 360)

  7. #32

    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    I merely want the Pacers to be more opportunistic at scoring a few more times a game in transition.

    You don't need to be tremendously athletic to score some points in transition. You need good passing and aggressiveness. Maybe our passing isn't good enough and maybe most of the players aren't intrinsically aggressive enough. The samller lineup with Saras at 2 and Jackson or Granger at 3 is a better passing lineup than we are used to, and especially with Danny in there I think we rebound well enough.

    Don't tell me we aren't athletic enough. The Some of those 80's Celtic teams were thought of as half-court teams, at least in contrast to the Showime Lakers, but it's amazing to catch the games on ESPN Classic and watch Parrish or Bird fire an outlet pass and 2 passes later somebody gets an easy basket.

    It's very hard to be as efficient in your offense as your opponent if they outscore you by a whopping amount on fast breaks.

    I am not advocating abandoning Carlisle's structured offense. I'm saying that now they look for easy scores in transition only a handful of times a game, and they can raise that significantly and all the players would like it. When an advantage is not there, business as usual.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

  8. #33
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offen

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    And now the shoe is on the other foot because I do remember Piston fans (can't say which side you fell on) during Rick's time there arguing for a more open offense and Pacer fans saying "you don't have the horses for it and Rick is milking what you do have".

    I'm not sure what that means unless someone wants to argue that Carlisle regresses and holds back his teams on the offensive end to the point they fall off the offensive radar.

    The first paragraph is the first thing I though of when reading a couple posts in this thread. Whether or not you have the players to run it, you aren't going to see it.

    As for the second paragraph. I wouldn't classify it as hurting the team, but he definately ignores areas that could help the team broaden its range of attack in order to maximize a few things he's confident in the team running (over and over and over again).

  9. #34
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    Default Re: One problem solved, still one to go: The players do not enjoy playing this offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I've got these Bob Hill quotes in my signature because I've been tired or Rick's "call every possession, milk the shotclock" approach.

    But I agree that we don't really have players I'd trust with a more open approach.

    So where's that get us?

    Bring back Bo Hill.


    I've never read your signature before, until you pointed it out.

    I agree with every single word that it says.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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