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Thread: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

  1. #1
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/59709.htm

    Kevin Kernan
    December 15, 2005 -- FASTER than you can say Frederic Weis, the Knicks need to do everything in their power to trade for Ron Artest, especially after another despicable defensive effort last night at the Garden.
    When I asked Stephon Marbury if he could see any light at the end of the tunnel after the Knicks' 105-90 loss to the Magic, he answered, "Right now as far as the way we're playing, we're going backwards, we're not going forward," Stephon Marbury said after the Knicks' 105-90 loss to the Magic.

    Is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

    "If we continue to play the way we're playing, the light is going to be further away than this," Marbury said.

    The light may get closer, the light of the oncoming train.

    Artest can be a team's worst nightmare, but it can't be any worse than the nightmare the Knicks — and their fans — are living. Orlando shot the Knicks into 3-point oblivion, banging in 11 treys, six in the fourth quarter, as the Knick defense never rotated to the shooter.

    Afterwards, in the shower, Nate Robinson and Malik Rose could be heard shouting at one another. This is one tense team.

    Marbury wound up sitting the last eight minutes of the game as Larry Brown pulled him with the Knicks down 14.

    With such a grim outlook, it makes Artest a gamble worth taking. He has always wanted to play for the Knicks. He needs to play in New York again. He needs to come home. The Knicks need Artest's defense, his passion, his ability to fire up the Garden crowd, a crowd that now boos early and leaves early.

    The only thing they don't need to do is trade Channing Frye for Artest. Frye is The Keeper on the Knicks roster. Artest is a star who has flamed out in so many ways, the most notable being last year's 73-game suspension after the disgusting brawl in Detroit.

    Isiah Thomas said he finally put a call into the Pacers yesterday. He needs to keep calling — and calling. Brown is a coach who thinks he can save every player until reality hits him in the face, that is a strength and a weakness. It's clear Marbury and Brown are not making progress together. After the loss to the Bucks on Monday, Brown said the Knicks didn't have anybody "with a head," orchestrating the flow.

    Noted Thomas before the game of his troubled point guard, "He was in a rut, he came out of it, and then went in another rut. I'm at practice every day and every single player in that locker room is doing whatever he can to try to please the coach."

    As for Artest, he's let his basketball world spiral out of control, but there is another side to him, too. He has not forgotten his roots. Every September Artest is in New York to help with the Wheelchair Classic, following the lead of Mark Jackson. The former St. John's star gives hugs and encouragement to players. He is there to show he cares.

    Artest makes $6.8 million, so a financial match can be found for such a trade, if Indiana wants to trade him to an Eastern Conference team.

    "I thought at the beginning of this year with the team they had, they had a chance to win it all," Brown said of the Pacers. "I hope he gets some sense and realizes he has a great opportunity there. Maybe he is just going through a bad period."

    Artest is averaging 37.7 minutes, 19.4 points and is taking 15 shots per game. He is shooting 46 percent from the field. He gets to the line because he goes hard to the hoop and he leads the league in steals with 2.63 per game.

    All that makes the gamble worth taking. Artest is only 26. The Pacers don't want any part of Artest, who has been placed on the inactive list. Once again he finds himself alone in the NBA. He has millions of dollars. He has incredible God-given talent, but he cannot find happiness.

    The Knicks need him. They need to make this trade.

  2. #2
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    They have NOTHING they could offer that would make me trade him there. I would give them nothing that would even remotely awaken the witch again. I like the basketball purgatory they are living in...keep em there!
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    Member Harddrive7's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Dang Geez, Go get ya some coffee buddy.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    I don't understand a thought process that has been very common this week.

    1) Trade Artest to purgatory. Trade him to the worst team in the league. Just cut him. Suspend him, make him sit out. I expect to read soomeone suggest we egg his house next. Oh wait someone did suggest that.

    In other words punish Artest at the expense of the Pacers franchise. I've heard this a lot on local talk radio. I have to assume they aren't Pacers fans at all.

    I want Artest traded to the team that helps the Pacers the most. If that means trading Artest to the Mavs and the Mavs win a championship. That is fine with me, as long as the Pacers are helped by the trade. So whichever trade gets the most for the Pacers, I say make that deal. I don't care if that means Artest gets to go exactly where he wants to go.

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I don't understand a thought process that has been very common this week.

    1) Trade Artest to purgatory. Trade him to the worst team in the league. Just cut him. Suspend him, make him sit out. I expect to read soomeone suggest we egg his house next. Oh wait someone did suggest that.

    In other words punish Artest at the expense of the Pacers franchise. I've heard this a lot on local talk radio. I have to assume they aren't Pacers fans at all.

    I want Artest traded to the team that helps the Pacers the most. If that means trading Artest to the Mavs and the Mavs win a championship. That is fine with me, as long as the Pacers are helped by the trade. So whichever trade gets the most for the Pacers, I say make that deal. I don't care if that means Artest gets to go exactly where he wants to go.

    The thought of wheter it pleases Ron or not did not enter into my thinking one iota. I HATE THE FREAKING KNICKS AND DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO HAPPEN THAT MIGHT HELP THEM.

    and BTW HD7....I'm at home today so I got PLENTY of coffee.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    I'm going to put this Denver pro Artest column here.
    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...316716,00.html


    Krieger: Adding Artest a bold move worth taking
    December 15, 2005

    Pursuing greatness always entails risks. The trick is measuring the risk against the reward and jumping on the right horse.

    Disappointing so far this season, the Nuggets desperately need a big guard. One of the best swing men in the business - a small forward in Indiana but just as easily a shooting guard in Denver - just became available.

    Which makes Ron Artest the subject of today's risk/reward profile.

    I say this fully aware that Artest suffers from Screw Loose Syndrome (SLS) and will undoubtedly do or say something phenomenally stupid - probably more than once - during the next 2 1/2 seasons, the period during which he would be under contract to the team that trades for him.

    In fact, I'm guessing the move would have maybe a one-in-three chance of blowing up in the Nuggets' faces; Artest could be so unhappy about being traded west when he asked to be traded east that he becomes a 250-pound sulk pump, sucking the life out of the locker room.

    In other words, high risk.

    Also, high reward.

    This just in: The Nuggets aren't contending for a championship as they are.

    Imagine if Artest can be persuaded to focus on playing basketball once he is free of the brawl-related baggage he faces in Indiana. The Nuggets would be much more serious contenders than they are now.

    Playing together at the swing spots, Artest and Carmelo Anthony would be a monster. Opponents would have to check one of them with a guard, which would be fodder for Comedy Central.

    By now, even the Nuggets admit they need help at big guard. They tried Voshon Lenard. They tried DerMarr Johnson. They've settled for defensive stopper Greg Buckner, which means they are getting little or no offense from a position the main purpose of which is to supply offense - hence the name, shooting guard.

    The Nuggets would like to fill this hole with someone acquired for spare parts, which would be better than doing nothing but not as good as getting an All-Star like Artest.

    They won't get Artest for spare parts. Even after he damaged the Pacers' bargaining position by asking out publicly, even after the Pacers appeared to set a time limit by moving him to the inactive list, Artest will command serious offers. He is that good and he has worn out his welcome in only one place so far.

    Well, two, if you count the Palace, but here's guessing those fans would change their tune in a Detroit minute if Artest joined the Pistons.

    The Pacers are off to a decent but not great start. I don't know what Nuggets package would be most attractive to Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird. Maybe it would be kids and draft choices. Maybe they'd like Eduardo Najera or Linas Kleiza to do some of Artest's banging.

    Maybe, after all their turmoil, they need the un-Artest, a low-key personality who leads rather than distracts. That's Andre Miller, an underrated floor leader and a serious upgrade from the Pacers' Jamaal Tinsley.

    The more I watch Miller, the better I like him - and the more I conclude he doesn't quite fit what the Nuggets want to do. It's a situation reminiscent of the dilemma Doug Moe faced with Fat Lever nearly 20 years ago. Lever was a terrific all-around guard, but playing the point, he did not give the Nuggets the pace Moe's running game required.

    Moe solved this problem by moving Lever to big guard. Miller is almost the all-around player Lever was, but he's not the outside shooter. Already shooting impaired, the Nuggets cannot afford a big guard whose three-pointers arrive with the frequency of Halley's comet, so they can't play Miller at two guard for more than brief interludes.

    With Miller running the point, the Nuggets are 13th in the league in scoring. They have regressed in a number of ways since the sensational second half of last season, but none more obvious than this. They aren't playing as fast as they did.

    If they traded Miller to Indiana for Artest - the salaries are just tradeable - they could move Earl Watson in at the point. A backcourt of Watson and Artest would be as good defensively as any in the NBA.

    Offensively, Watson would not score as much as Miller, but, with Artest beside him, he wouldn't have to. He would set the pace and distribute the ball to the potent scorers - Anthony, Artest, Camby, K-Mart - around him.

    There are lesser big guards out there, of course. They would require less to obtain in trade. But they wouldn't make the difference Artest would.

    The question is not how good he is. The question is whether he's the Terrell Owens of basketball, a personality so deeply skewed that he must destroy his surroundings in a toddler's tantrum wherever he goes.

    Only a shrink can answer that one. Obviously, if he weren't so volatile, he would not be available at all. I suggest, as the folks on Law & Order say, a complete psych evaluation. Make the deal only if you're comfortable with what you find.

    It would still be a big risk. But, for a team that needs exactly Artest's skill set, a risk worth taking

  7. #7
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    [QUOTE=Unclebuck]I don't understand a thought process that has been very common this week.

    1) Trade Artest to purgatory. Trade him to the worst team in the league. Just cut him. Suspend him, make him sit out. I expect to read soomeone suggest we egg his house next. Oh wait someone did suggest that.

    I understand the thought process. It's the same process that a lot of people go though in a divorce when they say hurtful things about a former loved one. This is just the way some people strike back when hurt. If I were a betting man I would bet a bundle of money that the majority of those saying hurtful things about Ron have also said hurtful things about a former spouse. (If formally married) Anybody want to owe up to that?

    In other words punish Artest at the expense of the Pacers franchise. I've heard this a lot on local talk radio. I have to assume they aren't Pacers fans at all.

    Oh I have no doubt they are Pacer fans, just ones striking out as in a divorce. But they are unthinking too because of their anger. Yet most of them if you gave them the pleasure of sending Ron to purgatory or getting something back for him would forgo the pleasure and opt for getting something back.

    I want Artest traded to the team that helps the Pacers the most. If that means trading Artest to the Mavs and the Mavs win a championship. That is fine with me, as long as the Pacers are helped by the trade. So whichever trade gets the most for the Pacers, I say make that deal. I don't care if that means Artest gets to go exactly where he wants to go.

    I agree, and that's more or less what Donnie has said so I wouldn't worry about it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    I wouldn't mind him on a crappy team for the simple reason that he would never be in an opportunity to defeat us in a playoff game.

    Of course getting the beat deal is goal #1, but other things being nearly equal I'd much rather send him to Toronto or Charlotte than to Cleveland or Miami.
    The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!)

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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    I wouldn't mind him on a crappy team for the simple reason that he would never be in an opportunity to defeat us in a playoff game.

    Of course getting the beat deal is goal #1, but other things being nearly equal I'd much rather send him to Toronto or Charlotte than to Cleveland or Miami.

    Charlotte YES....they have this 7 foot foreign kid name Primrose Prozac or something....
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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    I love those articles. "But Dr. Phil, I thought he would change after I married him."

    I'm sorry UB, but I don't want Ron to have any chance of even smelling a championship after he was the main culprit in undermining our chances.
    The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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    Member Ultimate Frisbee's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Miller for Artest doesn't make that much sense... But of course, he wasn't really thinking about our side of things...

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    I'm getting really, really tired of these opinion pieces.

    I want some real news for a change.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Afterwards, in the shower, Nate Robinson and Malik Rose could be heard shouting at one another. This is one tense team.
    First off why was the reporter in the shower?

    On where to trade Ron:
    I don't care. He is not going to get any team a championship. He is going to destroy that team.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  14. #14
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    I love those articles. "But Dr. Phil, I thought he would change after I married him."

    I'm sorry UB, but I don't want Ron to have any chance of even smelling a championship after he was the main culprit in undermining our chances.
    "Imagine if Artest can be persuaded to focus on playing basketball once he is free of the brawl-related baggage he faces in Indiana."




    Other teams' desperation will be our victory.

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    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    I'm sorry UB, but I don't want Ron to have any chance of even smelling a championship after he was the main culprit in undermining our chances.

    I agree wholeheartedly. The Pacers get the screws while Artest gets the chance to contend for a title elsewhere? I certainly hope not.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian
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    First off why was the reporter in the shower?
    This may've been fecetious, but I'll respond anyway.

    It's not so abnormal to be within earshot of the shower in locker rooms after the game, especially if it's the road locker room.

    At Purdue, the football road media interview area is a large curtain from the showers. I've seen way too much of a few Iowa football players. Ugh ...

  17. #17
    Diesel_81
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace
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    I agree wholeheartedly. The Pacers get the screws while Artest gets the chance to contend for a title elsewhere? I certainly hope not.
    I think it was Displaced Knick who said it in a thread just recently reffering to Artest as "fools gold" which I agree with but there a shot that this year if added to a team like Dallas that he would be on his best behavior and would give him a legitimate shot at a title. Now after the season thats a whole other story and he probably would destroy any team he plays on.

  18. #18
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    Did he really say? "That's Andre Miller, an underrated floor leader and a serious upgrade from the Pacers' Jamaal Tinsley."


    Homerism is alive and well!!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: NYPost}Artest is worth it at almost any price

    The only player the Pacers would be interested in from NY IS Channing Frye, IMO.

    My question for the writer is: If you think Channing Frye is going to help you in 4 years from now or until whenever you expect him to "take over" games, why not just tell the Knicks fans to lower their wild expectations, and/or hold off coming to games until 2008, and that way everybody knows what to expect, OR ... send Channing Frye and a 1st rounder to Indiana for a SUDDEN IMPACT player that will not only reestablish the Knicks as a contender NOW, but for years to come.

    What he is trying to do, is build value in Frye and devalue Artest, but he also tried to steer the Knciks front office towards Artest, all in the same column. Kinda leaves me with wobbly knees.

    Artest is the best defensive player in the league, and now a proven offensive powerhouse! The Knicks, Maveicks, etc ... want him at Dollar General prices ... not very realistic imo.

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