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Thread: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

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    Default Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    It seemed as though the tranisition of Walsh to Bird was complete, but it sure looks like Walsh has the reigns on the Artest circus.

    Not that I mind. Frankly, I feel a little more comfortable with DW handling this one. Its fine for Bird to scout/sign Saras, and make draft choices, but the Artest thing is messy, and now would be a great time for Donnie to pull a rabbit out of his hat.

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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Yeah even Mike and Mike questioned it this morning.
    Like what is Donnie doing running the show?
    Didn't he turn over the reigns to Larry ?

    Why Not Us ?


  3. #3
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Here we go again...

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Chief Executive Officer.

    (I'd make a funny about how its his job to execute Ron.)

    The buck still stops with DW. I secretly hope he fires Bird for misjudging Artest and the trade market for Artest over the past couple of seasons. But he's learning, and this was a rookie mistake.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    The buck still stops with DW. I secretly hope he fires Bird for misjudging Artest and the trade market for Artest over the past couple of seasons. But he's learning, and this was a rookie mistake.
    That's a contradictory statement obviously tainted by your abhorrence (is that a strong enough word?) of the men in green. The buck stops with Walsh, you say. Yet you hope that Bird is fired for the debacle that has been Ron's tenure here.

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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    Donnie is Larry's boss.

    I think that should answer the question.
    Donnie is definetly the boss, but player personnel and day-to-day Pacers operations are supposed to be LB's department.

    So I'm wondering if DW elbowed LB aside for this one, or if LB asked for a little help. The next thing you know we are going to hear about front office chemistry problems

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    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    I think the fact that it was Larry on the cover of SI with Artest - that at the very least he needs to get his *** back to Indy and deal with this alongside his boss.
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    What I think, and obviously this is just my speculation, was that DW would've quietly listened to offers for Ron over the past couple of seasons, and last summer in particular. But I think Bird said, "This guy's too good, I know he's been a problem, but I can get him to behave and that will help the team more than trading him for what I could get in return."

    To which Donnie possibly said, "Okay, prove it to me."

    And it backfired.

    We're all somewhat guessing at what the conversations between DW and Bird have been. I could be wrong, of course, but that's my take on the whole situation.

    Although, yes, I don't like the Green Guys so perhaps thats clouding my perception here.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  9. #9
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Donnie is the CEO of Pacers, Sports & Entertainment which includes the Pacer's, Fever, the Pacer's Foundation plus a lot of other things. As CEO he's is in charge of everything.

    Bird is in charge of running the Pacer's which includes hiring an firing coaches, scouts, and players.

    Bird has final say so unless of course Donnie overrules him. Who knows if that has happened? It probably happened when Bird was first hired since Bird wasn't up on the contract part of his job. Has it happened lately? Again who knows, it could have happened with Ron.

    Whatever, they have a relationship that works very well for the Pacer's. Bird was out scouting when the Artest situation hit and it appears didn't see the need to come right back.

    Whatever we know Donnie is fielding trade offers and said after a period of time "they" would sit down and choose an offer.

    My thought is the chose will be a consensus, unless Bird really wants a certain offer. But even in that situation I don't think Donnie would permit a trade for another . . . troubled player.

    I like their arrangement, it seems to allow both to play to their strengths.

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    Member Doug in CO's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    I just do not get how Larry does not get back to Indy - no matter the scenario.

    If Jay is correct - why would Larry leave when Ron started acting up. Reportedly Larry left on Saturday, after the initial interview.

    I hate Kravitz so much that I hate to steal his line... but it is Larry's mess, he should be here to at least help clean it up... or carry his boss' water while he does.
    Heywoode says... work hard man.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in OH
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    I just do not get how Larry does not get back to Indy - no matter the scenario.

    If Jay is correct - why would Larry leave when Ron started acting up. Reportedly Larry left on Saturday, after the initial interview.

    I hate Kravitz so much that I hate to steal his line... but it is Larry's mess, he should be here to at least help clean it up... or carry his boss' water while he does.
    Bird isn't big on appearences, and wasting money, so he probably decided to finish his scouting trip. And as for Ron acting up they had probably already decided on a basic course of action if he did, and Donnie has invoked it. As for trade offers they do those on the phone anyway.

    I really don't see a problem here.

    As for hating Kravitz, hates not good for a person. You should do what I do, don't read him.

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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    I'm sure that Larry and Donnie talked before the decision to ship Ron was made, and I'm pretty sure that LB was extremely pissed. I still agree with LB/DW sticking with Ron through everything from last year. He was a Pacer and he is a tremendous basketball player (IMO, there isn't a better player at both ends of the floor than Artest). Losing Ron will hurt, but he is a headcase and this latest disruption was the last straw. His absence will hurt the Pacers at the defensive end (and the offensive end as well), but with the remaining players (if healthy) the Pacers will be better off without the distraction that Artest is.

    Personally, I would love to see Al return to the blue and gold. He is a comparable offensive player and not too shabby at the defensive end as well. He can play the PF spot and would fit in nicely to this team, but only if he leaves his selfishness behind him. He has acknowledged that he made a mistake and he basically said that he would be happy to play for the Pacers again. I don't think this deal gets done unless Harrington is signed to an extension. Harrington will get the minutes he wanted before as the starting SF and will present a matchup problem for many SF's guarding him due to his size. As a plus, the Hawks aren't going to be considered contenders for quite some time, so sending Artest to the Hawks won't hurt them in their run to the ECF this year.

    I've stood by Artest through everything over the past 13 months and I am ashamed. I felt like he deserved another chance and he went and pissed it all away. Yes he is a tremendous talent and he is a bargain salary wise, but he has alienated his teammates, his coach and management (not to mention the die-hard supporters of the Indiana Pacers). I know that most of this has been said before by many on here, but I felt like I needed to get it out of my system.

    Go Pacers!!!

  13. #13
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in OH
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    I just do not get how Larry does not get back to Indy - no matter the scenario.

    If Jay is correct - why would Larry leave when Ron started acting up. Reportedly Larry left on Saturday, after the initial interview.

    I hate Kravitz so much that I hate to steal his line...but it is Larry's mess, he should be here to at least help clean it up... or carry his boss' water while he does.
    They have tremendous respect for one another. It's not a contentious relationship or a typical boss/employee relationship, it's very cooperative. No need to make something out of nothing.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in OH
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    If Jay is correct - why would Larry leave when Ron started acting up. Reportedly Larry left on Saturday, after the initial interview.
    I have no idea what you're talking about.

    But I do blame a giant Red Auerbach conspiracy to keep the Pacers down.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    I wonder if part of the reason Ron came out when he did was bc Larry wasn't in town. Maybe Ron couldn't look LB in the face and do what he did to us the way he did.

    As far as LB coming back, well I think that its irrelevent. Sacto is only a phone call away, regardless of whether in Indiana or in Beirut.

    As far as cleaning up a mess - well it's really the coach's team and I don't know that Larry needs to clean anything up, nor does Donnie. I don't know that this requires a member of management addressing the team. I mean, seems that JO has taken that leadership role and Coach Carlisle is here as well. Nothing for LB to do.

    As far as who's running the team, well I tend to agree with Harmonica - its something where we're dealing with two guys who work extremely well with one another. If they didn't, I doubt LB would have had the opportunity to get back with the franchise, in the first place. And on the second hand, I don't think it matters who is the face of the franchise from occasion to occasion. Just so long as someone steps up. None of us really knows who is calling the shots or what the internal workings of the Indiana Pacers are, and I doubt they would want us to know, either.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Revisiting Walsh vs. Bird: Who runs the show?

    I think that Walsh is running the show on this one.......given his talent for pulling the "DD for JO" type of deals....and frankly....I am more comfortable about Walsh doing these type of negotiations.

    Also......has anyone else noticed which top dog is the one handling the Press conferences? Its Walsh....not Bird.

    On top of that....Bird hasn't really publically commented about anything at all....which I think is kind of wierd. Maybe he is the one running the phones?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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