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Thread: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

    Dear Mr. Buck,

    Aren't you dead?

    Sincerely,
    Donnie Walsh


    I tried to end it all, but the damn snow cushioned my fall, and I survived, better and stronger than ever

  2. #27
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    It is a hoot to go over to Realgm and look at all the preposterous trade proposals.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    We should try somehow to get one of the good, quick, young point guards out there.

    Yes, I would trade Tinsley, if the P's don't care for his locker room influence. And I think there is a chance TPTB don't.

    Harrison would stay unless he is needed in a trade for another big. Centers take time to develop and I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

    I doubt Jack is a cancer or bad teammate. He's a versatile player who we will probably need. A lot depends on what players we get back in trades.

    The Pacers should also use this opportunity to get their luxury tax situation in better hand for next year and beyond. The current situation is unexceptable for the long term well-being of the franchise.

  4. #29
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Dear Donnie, Larry and the Simons:

    In many ways this is a great opportunity for the Indiana Pacers franshise. Whether you wanted it or not, the franchise stands at a crossroads, that goes much deeper than just Ron Artest. Now is the time to change the entire makeup of the Pacers team.

    Yes Artest has forced your hand, but please don't stop at just trading Artest. For the past 4 years or so the approach was to win with talent. Talent first, character second. Well that has not worked as well as I thought it would. So please trade Artest but also trade Tinsley, Jackson and Harrison. Now is the time to re-make the whole team with players who are completely committed to the "team" Right now there is a unique opportunity that does not come along very often. The Pacers fans will understand a complete make-over and if that means taking a small step back in order to cleanse the franchise, I myself as a season ticket holder will support you.

    This quote by Saras sums it up rather well, "We have five guys on the court who really want to play, who are excited about being on the court," said point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who took just two shots but passed out a game-high eight assists. "The guys want to help each other defensively, they want to share the ball on offense."

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart.

    I implore you to re-think the entire team, please do not try a patchwork approach to changing the team. Please acquire players who are team first players and winners, players who are selfless.

    I would recommend keeping players who perhaps have less talent, but are totally committed to the idea of playing team ball. That includes players such as Anthony Johnson, Saras, Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Austin Croshere, and Jermaine O'Neal. Players who only judge themselves on whether the team wins or loses.

    Please include David Harrison in one of the two or three trades that need to be made. He simply won't fit into the "new Pacers". Yes he is talented, but we need to cleanse the franchise of any problems or possible problems.

    I can only speak for myself when I say this, but I will support the franchise during this very difficult time, and I realize a step back my be necessary. The Pacers might not be able to challenge The Pistons or the Spurs this season, but that is OK. Remember be bold and creative. The entire scab needs to be pulled. Complete reconstructive surgery is needed.

    Donnie you have re-made the franchise before and you can do it again, what makes it more difficult is you must remake it during the season.

    Good luck

    Unclebuck
    Oh if only I could go back & bring up threads from the summer of 00 when I had to listen over & over & over again how we needed more talented less team oriented players.

    How we had to make this youth movement & that in two years tops we would be right back in the title hunt.

    This is not at you U.B. because you weren't even U.B. then (you were Pacers for all) but this is to my friends speed, Akmand40, Brich, Brichard, Pman & mostly to you PacersFanForLife.

    Talent alone will win you nothing!!!!!! You have to have talent to win, no doubt, but you have to have players willing to submit to a system & to each other to have any chance at all.

    As to your letter U.B., I agree with the theory of it. Actually I'm all for it but I am also of this mindset here.

    Let's see how the team does without Artest. I do beleive that he was that big of a distraction to the team. I never thought he was the only one, but he was the main event.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00
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    Ron Artest and David Harrison (reluctantly Harrison) should be dealt. For some reason Rick Carlisle has absolutely no confidence in Harrison , while David sits his attitude gets bad , he is clearly frustrated.

    David Harrison has ability but I'm not sure he'll ever develop it. Harrison made the nba after only playing 2 years of high school varsity and 3 years of college , he has been able to get by on potential , not sure if its lack of effort in practice or Carlisle's reluctance to play young guys but its not working for him here.

    All I say about Artest , is I never trusted him to change and tho he has immense talent , I doubt he'll ever change no matter how many "new starts " he gets. For all involved he should be traded , last season his suspension ended any true bond with his teammates. He was like the love intrest who cheats on you , you can forgive but never completely forget or completely trust them again. No matter how much you may wish to.

    Jamaal Tinsley when focused is a very good point guard but at times he gets into one upsmanship duels with other point guards. He also needs his ego stroked too often , he is too moody. In addition he seems far too injury prone , I won't question the sinus situation as someone who's nose has been broken 5 times playing sports , I sympathize but I also know there is surgery to help with that chronic condition.

    Stephen Jackson ,Jack while moody seems to be able to refocus quicker than Tinsley. We have noticed without Artest the last couple games he has gone to the hole more and seems to have become more inspired on defense , he had an Artest like 4 steals vs the Grizzlies. Even tho he and Jermaine have had several run ins , they seem to bond well. Their situation to me in the run ins is like a sibling thing, quickly forgotten.

    Jemaine O'Neal to me is the one core Pacer you do not move unless its for KG or Duncan. He will never be Mr Calm like Duncan. Jermaine like Jackson will let his emotions show , but also refocuses quickly. He has shown that he can be a top 5-10 player and stay in control .

    At this point Jermaine must be kept he is the hub , Jackson though disliked by many does have championship experience and an all around game. Jamaal to me should be closely watched when he is healthy , with Sarunas we have an adequite replacement for him and when JT gets in his moods yank him , its time he learns it won't be tolerated , same goes for Stephen.

    So I guess in summation Ron has said he wants out so its time to do just that, cut our losses before the whole team implodes , unfortunatley Harrison may have to be packaged with Ron. But I'm not in favor of a total remake just yet.
    Excellant post!
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  6. #31
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    While I have been feeling for UB with this whole thing, has anyone seen/herd from Sassan.

    I hope he didnt jump off htat bridge with UB....


    Yes he was right there with me, but I hate to say, he didn't make it.

  7. #32
    Banned PacerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    I might be saying the same for your quote KNOWING we won't miss Artest at all and can just insert Granger into the line up full time "and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good"", well guess what I'm saying we won't be as good and CERTAINLY not "rightnow", "IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone".

    You must have never heard of the rookie treatment by the refs? And, yes SOME rookies don't hit the wall, either most don't play enough for that or they are the exception to the rule, not the other way around.

    Regards,

    Mourning
    So I guess you were in a coma LAST season????? WHen we went to the second round WITHOUT the Idiot and 2 other hobbled players????????

    Oh, and that was BEFORE we added Granger and Sarunas and got back Foster and Harrison.

    DUH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  8. #33
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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    Although UB will have to speak for himself....the only reason that I would support somehow shipping out Artest/SJax/Tinsley this season is not because of chemistry problems. The only reason that I would ship them out is because I see this as an opportunity to fix a recognized problem that the Pacers have been facing for the last 3 seasons.

    A ) Health and durability has been one fo the main factors as to why we can't advance past a team like the Pistons. Tinsley and JONeal are the main offenders here....but now that JONeal has ( by default ) become the team's best / franchise player...he is one of the players that we have to build around. If Tinsley didn't get injured as often but still had his attitude/supposed "pouting" ...then I would overlook his flaws and want to keep him.

    B ) Maturity is the key factor here. Although SJax ( by default ) becomes the 2nd best scorer.....I still see him as a player that allows his emotions to control his game that ultimately affects what he does on the court ( does that sound familiar ). Also....just because Artest is shipped off....it doesn't mean that SJax won't do something stupid or won't complain and whine about the smallest thing.

    Although Health and durability with Tinsley are of greater concern then the Maturity concern that I have with SJax....I doubt that there would be a way to ship off all 3 players in 1 trade. In the end...I could live with SJax as his problem is simply controlling his emotions....whereas Tinsley is just injured all the time...something you can't really control.

    BTW.....making such drastic moves would be contingent on several things happening....(A) that we can get back the type of players that Walsh/Bird wants that fits our style of play to replace 1/2 the entire starting lineup ( which appears unlikely ) or (B) that we are able to get a acceptable replacement at the SF spot that can keep us competitive for this season. I could see getting a suitable replacement starting quality SF as far more plausible then replacing all 3 positions during this regular season.

    We signed Sarunas because of Tinsleys injuries. Jackson and Granger are both fully capable of playing the 3 spot adequately with Granger having MUCH potential to be much better than adequate.
    This is a PROVEN playoff team WITHOUT RON ARTEST and with 3 very good players we didn't have last season.
    There is NO need for any moves beyond dumping Artest on any idiot GM willing to take him.
    Factor in that we'd GET a Decent player in return and we are even more set.

  9. #34
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I'm all for dealing Artest (no brainer) and Tinsley. I don't care how well Tinsley plays "when he plays", the guy can't stay healthy. The best player in the world is completely ineffective if sitting on the bench in street clothes.

    I'm not ready to give up on Harrison just yet, though, mainly because he has size. It's hard to find guys with his size and athletic ability. But, I'd certainly keep a close eye on him and make him realize (especially if Artest and Tinsley go) that a bad attitude will get him nowhere with this franchise.

    Although, given our history with Artest, he may need quite a bit of convincing of that before he truly believes it. We've given Artest too much leeway. Why would Harrison believe he wouldn't be given leeway, too?

  10. #35
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    While I have been feeling for UB with this whole thing, has anyone seen/herd from Sassan.

    I hope he didnt jump off htat bridge with UB....
    Oh, he's alive and well. He, of course, blames Wells for this.

  11. #36
    Kestas
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Dear Donnie, Larry and the Simons:
    wait, wait, wait.. Pacers have a championship to win this year, remember?
    if half of the team is going to be changed (which, of course, will not happen), then trade Saras as well to a team that can win the damn thing.

    btw, honestly speaking, I think Pacers can win the title even without replacing Artest (simply firing him and that's it). in some ways the NBA system, where you can not fire players and can not lure them from the other teams (with buyouts and higher sallary) whenever you want, is all cozy and very communist, but sometimes (like now) it sucks.

  12. #37
    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    Trading Harrison would be stupid as hell.


    Uh...............Why?



    Call me stupid, but I want players who are ready to play right now. I want developed players who can help this team immediately.........not players that we have to keep around for 2-3 years because we think they might be special.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I think getting a player not quite at all-star caliber at SF might be all we need. We did go to the second round last year with an injured Tinsley and JO and no Artest. We gave the Pistons all that they could handle. If we have a healthy JO and Tinsley (somewhat, now that we have Sarunas) and someone decent at SF with Granger backing up, I think it could work. Remember that Austin is also a pretty good "acquisition" since he's been playing well.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I think Artest to Toronto for Bosh would be good since Bosh said he wouldn't resign with Toronto anyways. Artest would be option 1 there and then we can see how many cameras he can destroy while in the midst of a 10 game losing streak.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    We have a poster who is from Canada, and he will speak soon enough, but no way in hell do the Raps make that trade
    Meh, I've come to accept the fact that people don't read my posts

    I think I've posted that there is no way we'd be able to pry Bosh away at least 4 -5 times now.

    EDIT: Thanks VA!

  16. #41
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Oh if only I could go back & bring up threads from the summer of 00 when I had to listen over & over & over again how we needed more talented less team oriented players.

    How we had to make this youth movement & that in two years tops we would be right back in the title hunt.

    This is not at you U.B. because you weren't even U.B. then (you were Pacers for all) but this is to my friends speed, Akmand40, Brich, Brichard, Pman & mostly to you PacersFanForLife.

    Talent alone will win you nothing!!!!!! You have to have talent to win, no doubt, but you have to have players willing to submit to a system & to each other to have any chance at all.

    As to your letter U.B., I agree with the theory of it. Actually I'm all for it but I am also of this mindset here.

    Let's see how the team does without Artest. I do beleive that he was that big of a distraction to the team. I never thought he was the only one, but he was the main event.


    My first post ever on any forums anywhere, was October 15th 2000

  17. #42
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    I read you'r threads
    I read rcary's posts too. I just disagree with him about getting Bosh. If the Raps think they could lose him, and they could. They would be dumb not to take a great trade offer.

    If the Raps got Artest, Harrison, and Tinsley, for Bosh, Peterson, and Williams, they would be getting 3 players with at least 3 years left on their contracts. They could build on that.

    As is, they have been losing their best players as fast as they acquire them. They are like the Clippers used to be.

    Adding Artest, Tinsley and Harrison to the group of players they would keep would assure them of the playoffs. And having a winning team would do more for the Raps in keeping players than giving Bosh a boat load of money.

    Look at Minnesota. They have been in the same situation with Garnett for years. Free agents don't want to go to Minnesota.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    I dont know what thread to put this in, but how about a Bruce Bowen for Artest type of trade?....

    The Spurs would laugh us out of the NBA is we tried that......
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  19. #44
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I believe that the Raptors are willing to take the chance on Bosh until he firmly comes out and says he won't stay a Raptor. If he doesn't say anything, then you can bet the farm that Toronto will hold onto him and throw every last penny in his direction.

    They already have building pieces between Bosh, Villanueva, Caulderon, and Joey Graham. Between the 4 of those guys, Bosh is the only guy whose status is up in the air, as the other three (particularly Charlie and Jose) feel indebted to the Raptors for taking a chance on them and absolutely love the city and hope to stay for the long-run.

    I know Charlie's comments about himself and Bosh being the next "Duncan and Robinson" were over the top - but everyone realizes that those two can be something special in the future and the Raptors are not going to jeopardize that unless they know FOR SURE that Bosh is leaving.

    Even if Bosh said he was going to leave, I'm not so sure they'd want the Artest deal - as Ronnie comes with the obvious risks, and Tinsley would have no spot unless he wanted to backup Jose Caulderon.

  20. #45
    Gamble
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    The Raptors have proven that they are not well managed so i see
    no reason why the Pacers couldn't prey on them.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Oh if only I could go back & bring up threads from the summer of 00 when I had to listen over & over & over again how we needed more talented less team oriented players.

    How we had to make this youth movement & that in two years tops we would be right back in the title hunt.

    This is not at you U.B. because you weren't even U.B. then (you were Pacers for all) but this is to my friends speed, Akmand40, Brich, Brichard, Pman & mostly to you PacersFanForLife.

    Talent alone will win you nothing!!!!!! You have to have talent to win, no doubt, but you have to have players willing to submit to a system & to each other to have any chance at all.

    As to your letter U.B., I agree with the theory of it. Actually I'm all for it but I am also of this mindset here.

    Let's see how the team does without Artest. I do beleive that he was that big of a distraction to the team. I never thought he was the only one, but he was the main event.
    Of course I know you aren't implying that you can win without talent. You must have talent and teamwork. Team work alone won't get it done, but nor will talent. I'm pretty sure the Lakers, Bulls, Pistons, and Spurs had some of the best talents in the league while winning titles. As a matter of fact, 3 of those teams had arguably the best player in the league while winning.

    Our arguments had nothing to do with talent and teamwork, but rather they focused on whether or not the Pacers team had peaked or not. And for the love of peace I won't bring that up again, only to say that we agreed to disagree. We also disagreed about who bared most of the responsiblility for the changes, the players or Walsh... but I digress.

    I also think teams can win with some misguided missles. Rasheed Wallace, Vernon Maxwell, and Dennis Rodman all have titles to name a few. You just can't win with an arsenal full of them.

    The person I have been most impressed with this year is JO. He isn't forcing anything, he isn't posturing as much, and I don't see him arguing with the officials. Of all the players he does seem to show the ability to mature, but there are too many players on the Dark side of the force and I'm not sure he can overcome that many.

  22. #47
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I stand by everything posted back in December

  23. #48
    Oh What Could Have Been! fwpacerfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I have to agree, but I would include JO in trade talks and I would try to keep Peja. I'm torn on Harrison. I don't think of him as much of a loose cannon as Artest but I do think he is more like JO was a couple of years ago. The guy doesn't get any breaks because he complains about EVERY SINGLE CALL. JO did that for a year or two and then got better - he still complains too much imho - but he did tone it down. If Harrison would do that he would help himself immensely.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
    - Benjamin Franklin

  24. #49
    DeAthrow
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Wow this was quite a "trip"...I started reading this thread without noticing the date it was opened and when most of the comments were made.

    I was reading it and thinking WTF are these people talking about, how can we trade Artest if he has been already traded....how come no one was mentioning rebuilding around JO/Peja...did Peja say he does not plan to come back to Pacers.

    Whew.


  25. #50
    SoThenRobbieSaid
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I generally choose to stay out of the "rebuild the franchise or else" discussions, simply because I don't think we're in that troublesome of a situation. A team like Minnesota needs to rebuild, and they're OUT of playoff contention. How about the Bulls fans who suffered for years after Jordan left? Wasn't Golden State supposed to break through this year? Their fans have something to complain about. I've always been an advocate of the "it could be worse" theory. A true fan sticks by his team through thick and thin. Perfec example: each year will be the year of the Cubbies, and ultimately, they fall through the cracks. But their fans support their squad! Instead of bashing 90% of the guys we have on our team, we need to support them and help will them on into and throughout the playoffs. That's what I thought fans were for. Fortunately, unlike some other squads, the Pacers currently are holding a playoff spot, and you know as well as I do, the start of the playoffs signifies the beginning of a new season (See the NY Knicks of 99). Anything can happen.

    Of course, regarding our point guards, we'd all like to mold the 4 we have (I'm including Eddie Gill because he looks to be more cut than the others) to make one super point guard. However, that's not happening. However, the "keep Sarunas - maybe even start him!" ideas worry me. There's not one point guard in the league outside of Andre Miller (and that's very lightly) that I feel somewhat confident with Runi guarding. Don't get me wrong, he's a Hell of a competitor, has superior court awareness and passing skills, and can shoot the lights out; however, he's just more of a liability on the defensive end than JT and AJ.

    Other random thoughts:
    Granger's a stud - Start collecting his rookie cards now while they're cheaper. His autographed cards will surely skyrocket.
    I don't know what I think about Fred playing - I like him a lot, I just don't want him to further injure his hand.
    Some of our guys play like they're still in college (or high school even) - every possession matters. I love that.
    Jamaal is still the key to our success, and I support him.
    Reggie's professionalism rubbed off on a couple of our guys, although he's deeply missed in the lockeroom.
    I hope we keep Peja - I'm glad he feels like he got the frest start he needed with us. Good luck to him.

    Regardless what happens, Go Pacers!

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