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Thread: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Dear Donnie, Larry and the Simons:

    In many ways this is a great opportunity for the Indiana Pacers franshise. Whether you wanted it or not, the franchise stands at a crossroads, that goes much deeper than just Ron Artest. Now is the time to change the entire makeup of the Pacers team.

    Yes Artest has forced your hand, but please don't stop at just trading Artest. For the past 4 years or so the approach was to win with talent. Talent first, character second. Well that has not worked as well as I thought it would. So please trade Artest but also trade Tinsley, Jackson and Harrison. Now is the time to re-make the whole team with players who are completely committed to the "team" Right now there is a unique opportunity that does not come along very often. The Pacers fans will understand a complete make-over and if that means taking a small step back in order to cleanse the franchise, I myself as a season ticket holder will support you.

    This quote by Saras sums it up rather well, "We have five guys on the court who really want to play, who are excited about being on the court," said point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who took just two shots but passed out a game-high eight assists. "The guys want to help each other defensively, they want to share the ball on offense."

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart.

    I implore you to re-think the entire team, please do not try a patchwork approach to changing the team. Please acquire players who are team first players and winners, players who are selfless.

    I would recommend keeping players who perhaps have less talent, but are totally committed to the idea of playing team ball. That includes players such as Anthony Johnson, Saras, Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Austin Croshere, and Jermaine O'Neal. Players who only judge themselves on whether the team wins or loses.

    Please include David Harrison in one of the two or three trades that need to be made. He simply won't fit into the "new Pacers". Yes he is talented, but we need to cleanse the franchise of any problems or possible problems.

    I can only speak for myself when I say this, but I will support the franchise during this very difficult time, and I realize a step back my be necessary. The Pacers might not be able to challenge The Pistons or the Spurs this season, but that is OK. Remember be bold and creative. The entire scab needs to be pulled. Complete reconstructive surgery is needed.

    Donnie you have re-made the franchise before and you can do it again, what makes it more difficult is you must remake it during the season.

    Good luck

    Unclebuck

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I agree!

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I only agree with this IF we are able to get a solid starting SF and some additional pieces in trading Artest.

    I wouldn't mind taking a run at the championship with Tinsley/SJax/JONeal for this season. If it doesn't work out...then we blow up the team in one swoop during the offseason.

    This of course is based off of the assumption that we can get a solid SF in return. If not...then by all means.....blow it up and rebuild around JONeal/Sarunas/Foster/Granger.
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Dear Donnie, Larry and the Simons:

    In many ways this is a great opportunity for the Indiana Pacers franshise. Whether you wanted it or not, the franchise stands at a crossroads, that goes much deeper than just Ron Artest. Now is the time to change the entire makeup of the Pacers team.

    Yes Artest has forced your hand, but please don't stop at just trading Artest. For the past 4 years or so the approach was to win with talent. Talent first, character second. Well that has not worked as well as I thought it would. So please trade Artest but also trade Tinsley, Jackson and Harrison. Now is the time to re-make the whole team with players who are completely committed to the "team" Right now there is a unique opportunity that does not come along very often. The Pacers fans will understand a complete make-over and if that means taking a small step back in order to cleanse the franchise, I myself as a season ticket holder will support you.

    This quote by Saras sums it up rather well, "We have five guys on the court who really want to play, who are excited about being on the court," said point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who took just two shots but passed out a game-high eight assists. "The guys want to help each other defensively, they want to share the ball on offense."

    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart.

    I implore you to re-think the entire team, please do not try a patchwork approach to changing the team. Please acquire players who are team first players and winners, players who are selfless.

    I would recommend keeping players who perhaps have less talent, but are totally committed to the idea of playing team ball. That includes players such as Anthony Johnson, Saras, Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Austin Croshere, and Jermaine O'Neal. Players who only judge themselves on whether the team wins or loses.

    Please include David Harrison in one of the two or three trades that need to be made. He simply won't fit into the "new Pacers". Yes he is talented, but we need to cleanse the franchise of any problems or possible problems.

    I can only speak for myself when I say this, but I will support the franchise during this very difficult time, and I realize a step back my be necessary. The Pacers might not be able to challenge The Pistons or the Spurs this season, but that is OK. Remember be bold and creative. The entire scab needs to be pulled. Complete reconstructive surgery is needed.

    Donnie you have re-made the franchise before and you can do it again, what makes it more difficult is you must remake it during the season.

    Good luck

    Unclebuck
    Try to rebuild with 2nd and 3rd year players. Please, not draft picks ... it would take sooooo long to get us back to respectability with all the "developing" and also not through drafting ourselves, because we won't nearly suck enough to get top-10 picks on our own.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Try to rebuild with 2nd and 3rd year players. Please, not draft picks ... it would take sooooo long to get us back to respectability with all the "developing" and also not through drafting ourselves, because we won't nearly suck enough to get top-10 picks on our own.

    Regards,

    Mourning


    I never said to trade Artest, Jax, Jamaal, and Harrison for 2nd or 3rd year players. When did I say that. In fact the only 2nd or 3rd year player on the current Pacers is DH and I want him traded. So I don't know what you are talking about

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I never said to trade Artest, Jax, Jamaal, and Harrison for 2nd or 3rd year players. When did I say that. In fact the only 2nd or 3rd year player on the current Pacers is DH and I want him traded. So I don't know what you are talking about
    When did I say you said that. I was reacting to your post in general that we trade some of our "problem cases", which I'm very close to aggreeing with in general.

    I was stating my desire to get some 2nd or 3rd year players back instead of draft picks, rookies or old almost washed up veterans or normal veterans who are going to be close to beying washed up when we finally arrive at a high level again.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default to quote the famous WWII general

    NUTS

    You haven't got a CLUE whether this starts or ends with Ron Artest! We heard plenty about what a toxic lockerroom this idiot created in CHicago. Remember the supposed throwing of balls HARD over the heads of TEAMMATES sitting in the lockerroom? THink maybe stupid stunts like that would have EVERYONE in knots?????????

    WHen you have a toxic TEAM situation, especially a team with huge potential, you DO NOT GUT IT OVER ONE IDIOT. You dump his sorry *** and see what SMOOTHS OUT. If that isn't enough THEN YOU MAKE MORE MOVES. But I'll bet you $100 right now, that moving the dip**** solves our "chemistry" problems.
    Have NONE of you ever experienced this yourselves in sports? One guy can make everyone on edge. Take the fun out of day to day existence. Make practice a nightmare.

    We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..

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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    NUTS

    You haven't got a CLUE whether this starts or ends with Ron Artest! We heard plenty about what a toxic lockerroom this idiot created in CHicago. Remember the supposed throwing of balls HARD over the heads of TEAMMATES sitting in the lockerroom? THink maybe stupid stunts like that would have EVERYONE in knots?????????

    WHen you have a toxic TEAM situation, especially a team with huge potential, you DO NOT GUT IT OVER ONE IDIOT. You dump his sorry *** and see what SMOOTHS OUT. If that isn't enough THEN YOU MAKE MORE MOVES. But I'll bet you $100 right now, that moving the dip**** solves our "chemistry" problems.
    Have NONE of you ever experienced this yourselves in sports? One guy can make everyone on edge. Take the fun out of day to day existence. Make practice a nightmare.

    We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..


    Hmm so if we sent him to Detroit he'd destroy that franchise too? Hmmmmm
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Though very understandable, the fransise just can't knee jerk this. This may very well be what happens, but if so it will not be complete until next August.
    Tinsley isn't going to be moved until he has BYC status removed, unless he just really goes against team. If you trade Ron, which is almost a given now, don't you want to see what happens with Jac for awhile anyhow? I'm not a huge Jac fan but even without Artest this team can still compete. Lets dump Ron and see what happens to team chemistry. There is still plenty of time before the deadline to move Jac if he does not act better. I think Tinsley will
    get traded but it won't happen until next summer.

    If your going to rebuild, build it around JO/Sarunas.

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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    NUTS

    You haven't got a CLUE whether this starts or ends with Ron Artest! We heard plenty about what a toxic lockerroom this idiot created in CHicago. Remember the supposed throwing of balls HARD over the heads of TEAMMATES sitting in the lockerroom? THink maybe stupid stunts like that would have EVERYONE in knots?????????

    WHen you have a toxic TEAM situation, especially a team with huge potential, you DO NOT GUT IT OVER ONE IDIOT. You dump his sorry *** and see what SMOOTHS OUT. If that isn't enough THEN YOU MAKE MORE MOVES. But I'll bet you $100 right now, that moving the dip**** solves our "chemistry" problems.
    Have NONE of you ever experienced this yourselves in sports? One guy can make everyone on edge. Take the fun out of day to day existence. Make practice a nightmare.

    We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..
    Yeah, let's play Granger full time and still expect to do well in the play-offs .

    He will get so many fouls for nothing by the ref's during the play-offs not to mention if he will play heavy minutes during the 2nd half of the season he might very well experience the "rookie wall".

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..
    I completely disagree that we can plug Granger into the lineup. He still has his struggles, as any rookie does, and I really really don't think the Pacers should put him in such a huge role in just his rookie year.

    He may be one of the few rookies that can make a impact in his rookie year but that doesn't mean he can start on a good team. He is going to be a fine player for years to come but this is still his first year and like I said, the Pacers shouldn't put alot of pressure on him so soon.

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    As long as we keep JO, Sarunas, Jeff, and maybe Croshere I don't really care who we get rid of (as long as we are still a contender).

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers#1Fan
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    As long as we keep JO, Sarunas, Jeff, and maybe Croshere I don't really care who we get rid of (as long as we are still a contender).
    Ehmmm... sounds like a contradiction to me.
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    Thumbs down Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning
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    Yeah, let's play Granger full time and still expect to do well in the play-offs .
    ,

    Mourning

    Gee, maybe you should go into business as a psychic! KNOWING that and all.\
    Guess there's never been a rookie that did well in the NBA huh?????

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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Gee, maybe you should go into business as a psychic! KNOWING that and all.\
    Guess there's never been a rookie that did well in the NBA huh?????
    I might be saying the same for your quote KNOWING we won't miss Artest at all and can just insert Granger into the line up full time "and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good"", well guess what I'm saying we won't be as good and CERTAINLY not "rightnow", "IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone".

    You must have never heard of the rookie treatment by the refs? And, yes SOME rookies don't hit the wall, either most don't play enough for that or they are the exception to the rule, not the other way around.

    Regards,

    Mourning
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I think I would trade Artest/Harrison for a quality big man and then see what happens. Jax can play the 3 easily he's 6'8 can post and shoot from the outside. Why not try and get a quality Center.... if ones available.

    Artest must be traded to a west coast team, or find a job at Circuit city.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

    Dear Mr. Buck,

    Aren't you dead?

    Sincerely,
    Donnie Walsh
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    I only agree with this IF we are able to get a solid starting SF and some additional pieces in trading Artest.
    We've got one in Jax. And a good one in waiting with Granger. I strongly believe, though, that if Granger got the starting spot tomorrow, he'd be ready for the offseason by the time we got there.

    We need a shooting guard and a center.
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

    Dear Mr. Buck,

    Aren't you dead?

    Sincerely,
    Donnie Walsh
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    UB, I agree with you, to a point. I'd like to see how Jax functions without Artest around. It's like separating two troublemakers to see if they behave better without the negative influence of the other to lead them astray. I've liked what I've seen from Jax these past two games. Harrison? I don't know yet, but if he can be added to a Tinsley/Artest package to help us get a solid veteran big man, then I'm all for it. But as far as I'm concerned, Ron and Jamaal must go now.

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I can handle one or even two nut-jobs. So the list doesn't have to be completely remade. One or two (or even three) of our players would be enough. I'm not sure if I would limit it to the four folks listed here. I also don't think that Harrison is that big of a chemistry problem. He's a talent/skills problem first and fore-most.
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    Default Re: to quote the famous WWII general

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    NUTS

    You haven't got a CLUE whether this starts or ends with Ron Artest! We heard plenty about what a toxic lockerroom this idiot created in CHicago. Remember the supposed throwing of balls HARD over the heads of TEAMMATES sitting in the lockerroom? THink maybe stupid stunts like that would have EVERYONE in knots?????????

    WHen you have a toxic TEAM situation, especially a team with huge potential, you DO NOT GUT IT OVER ONE IDIOT. You dump his sorry *** and see what SMOOTHS OUT. If that isn't enough THEN YOU MAKE MORE MOVES. But I'll bet you $100 right now, that moving the dip**** solves our "chemistry" problems.
    Have NONE of you ever experienced this yourselves in sports? One guy can make everyone on edge. Take the fun out of day to day existence. Make practice a nightmare.

    We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..
    Although UB will have to speak for himself....the only reason that I would support somehow shipping out Artest/SJax/Tinsley this season is not because of chemistry problems. The only reason that I would ship them out is because I see this as an opportunity to fix a recognized problem that the Pacers have been facing for the last 3 seasons.

    A ) Health and durability has been one fo the main factors as to why we can't advance past a team like the Pistons. Tinsley and JONeal are the main offenders here....but now that JONeal has ( by default ) become the team's best / franchise player...he is one of the players that we have to build around. If Tinsley didn't get injured as often but still had his attitude/supposed "pouting" ...then I would overlook his flaws and want to keep him.

    B ) Maturity is the key factor here. Although SJax ( by default ) becomes the 2nd best scorer.....I still see him as a player that allows his emotions to control his game that ultimately affects what he does on the court ( does that sound familiar ). Also....just because Artest is shipped off....it doesn't mean that SJax won't do something stupid or won't complain and whine about the smallest thing.

    Although Health and durability with Tinsley are of greater concern then the Maturity concern that I have with SJax....I doubt that there would be a way to ship off all 3 players in 1 trade. In the end...I could live with SJax as his problem is simply controlling his emotions....whereas Tinsley is just injured all the time...something you can't really control.

    BTW.....making such drastic moves would be contingent on several things happening....(A) that we can get back the type of players that Walsh/Bird wants that fits our style of play to replace 1/2 the entire starting lineup ( which appears unlikely ) or (B) that we are able to get a acceptable replacement at the SF spot that can keep us competitive for this season. I could see getting a suitable replacement starting quality SF as far more plausible then replacing all 3 positions during this regular season.
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    We've got one in Jax. And a good one in waiting with Granger. I strongly believe, though, that if Granger got the starting spot tomorrow, he'd be ready for the offseason by the time we got there.

    We need a shooting guard and a center.
    SG or SF...it doesn't matter....we're looking at replacing a starting position. But as I posted before.....I wouldn't mind replacing the SG/SF position with a player and then make a run at the Championship this season...then blow it all up during the offseason.

    Also...I do not doubt that Granger is going to be a good player...I just don't see him making a significant impact this season. The guy is loaded with potential....but he is still a rookie...he is still prone to making stupid mistakes. I know that we can't figure out what Carlisle thinks sometimes....but there must be a reason ( other then the obvious "Carlisle sticks with veterans" reason ) why he isn't playing Granger other then the obvious.

    If we believe that all we have to do is "subtract Artest/add XXX player" to make a run at the championship this season....then we do not have the luxury of allowing Granger to get as many minutes as possible and let him "figure it out". I really believe that Walsh/Bird will blow up the team and rebuild around the core players that they believe is worthy of keeping. If they don't do it now....they will do it by the offseason after we lose in the playoffs.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Trading Harrison would be stupid as hell.

    Tinsley's problems come from his injuries. I think he is a team player.

    Jack, I dunno. On one end, he devotes himself to the team with his defense and rebounding, and on the other he's a one-on-one player.

    No one besides Artest -has- to go, but I could see Jack or Tins getting tossed in there.
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    Default Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    Ron Artest and David Harrison (reluctantly Harrison) should be dealt. For some reason Rick Carlisle has absolutely no confidence in Harrison , while David sits his attitude gets bad , he is clearly frustrated.

    David Harrison has ability but I'm not sure he'll ever develop it. Harrison made the nba after only playing 2 years of high school varsity and 3 years of college , he has been able to get by on potential , not sure if its lack of effort in practice or Carlisle's reluctance to play young guys but its not working for him here.

    All I say about Artest , is I never trusted him to change and tho he has immense talent , I doubt he'll ever change no matter how many "new starts " he gets. For all involved he should be traded , last season his suspension ended any true bond with his teammates. He was like the love intrest who cheats on you , you can forgive but never completely forget or completely trust them again. No matter how much you may wish to.

    Jamaal Tinsley when focused is a very good point guard but at times he gets into one upsmanship duels with other point guards. He also needs his ego stroked too often , he is too moody. In addition he seems far too injury prone , I won't question the sinus situation as someone who's nose has been broken 5 times playing sports , I sympathize but I also know there is surgery to help with that chronic condition.

    Stephen Jackson ,Jack while moody seems to be able to refocus quicker than Tinsley. We have noticed without Artest the last couple games he has gone to the hole more and seems to have become more inspired on defense , he had an Artest like 4 steals vs the Grizzlies. Even tho he and Jermaine have had several run ins , they seem to bond well. Their situation to me in the run ins is like a sibling thing, quickly forgotten.

    Jemaine O'Neal to me is the one core Pacer you do not move unless its for KG or Duncan. He will never be Mr Calm like Duncan. Jermaine like Jackson will let his emotions show , but also refocuses quickly. He has shown that he can be a top 5-10 player and stay in control .

    At this point Jermaine must be kept he is the hub , Jackson though disliked by many does have championship experience and an all around game. Jamaal to me should be closely watched when he is healthy , with Sarunas we have an adequite replacement for him and when JT gets in his moods yank him , its time he learns it won't be tolerated , same goes for Stephen.

    So I guess in summation Ron has said he wants out so its time to do just that, cut our losses before the whole team implodes , unfortunatley Harrison may have to be packaged with Ron. But I'm not in favor of a total remake just yet.

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