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Thread: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Yes I said it, and no I'm serious. Only exception is when the Pacers play Shaq, I would be in favor of starting Pollard.

    The question of Foster vs Croshere comes down to this. Foster plays equally well whether he starts or comes off the bench. Croshere plays a lot better as a starter. That is a flaw in Croshere's game and perhaps he should not be rewarded for it, but I think the team would be better with Croshere starting. Not because the team is really better with Cro in there, but because Cro will fall back almost out of the rotation if he doesn't start, and there are times we need Croshere's offense at the power forward position.

    As far as who finishes, it depends on the matchups and depends on the score in the last 5 minutes. If the Pacers are behind by more than 5 points, and the matchups are not terrible, then I would be in favor of Croshere finishing, if Pacers trail by less than 5 or lead then Foster should finish

    Of course this end of game scenerio does not take into account the very end when the other team is fouling, in that case Cro should finish, but teams generally don't start fouling until the last 40 seconds.

    Croshere it is up to you to keep up your excellent play.

    I think the more difficult question is whose minutes get cut when Foster does come back. Certainly Cro's will be cut even if he starts, but that is only about 10-15 minutes and we know Jeff will play more than that.

    The additional 10-15 minutes that Jeff will take away from someone other than Croshere has to either come from Harrison or Granger (or I suppose it could come from Fred as Ron could play more backup shooting guard, but I think this is highly unlikely knowing Carlisle) Whose minutes should be cut, DG and DH or maybe both. I suppose J.O could play a few less minutes but that is not likely.

  2. #2
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Where did Unclebuck go and why are you using his name?
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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays
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    Where did Unclebuck go and why are you using his name?
    I'll be looking for a "Granger should start at small forward" thread from him next.......

  4. #4
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat
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    I'll be looking for a "Granger should start at small forward" thread from him next.......

    I can foresee the day when Granger plays small forward and Ron plays shooting guard for stretches of games.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Something to think about, UB, but I like putting the best defensive team on the floor at the start of the game. I'd imagine that in any event Jeff will not start immediately when he comes back anyway. So, as you say, Cro will have a shot at keeping his starting position.

  6. #6
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Don't tell Peck, but I actually agree with this to a degree.

    One thing I've always said is that Foster is the ideal big man off the bench. I just haven't believed that the team could make it through a season with Croshere in the starting lineup. If he keeps playing like this (the hustle, not the stats), then I'm absolutely fine with it.

    That said, if we see recurrances of Austin2001-Austin2004, then he shouldn't be a starter.
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I've still got a hard time believing Jeff is going to be the same player.

    Two surgeries on the same hip...

    He's already not very physical, if he's not very mobile either then he's not going to be very valuable.
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Unless he proves to be physically unable to play like he used to, Foster should start. Have we all forgotten what tenacious rebounding will do for a team? Especially in dog-day December/January games? Artest and Foster in the starting lineup gives us an edge in hustle versus every team in the league - which proves to be huge over the course of a year.
    I'm loving Croshere's game this year, and he'll continue to get his minutes, but Feisty has earned his spot in the starting lineup. With the caveat that he has to be 100% healthy, I see no way Carlisle will bring Foster off the bench.
    Has everyone forgotten how well we played with Foster in the playoff lineup last year? He should have been starting that entire time - and we suffered because of the reluctance to play him early off his injury.

    I'm a feisty-fluffer you could say.

  9. #9
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Croshere usually doesn't get hurt. Foster may start now, but before the hip problem he was solid as well.

  10. #10
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    .

    Of course, who on our team doesn't seem to have nagging injuries every year?
    I don't remember any injuries for Carlisle. I'd say the whole coaching staff has been fairly healthy.

    I'm all for leaving Croshere in as starter altho I could see reducing his minutes somewhat as Foster returns. Even with Croshere not looking to score the other team still has to account for him on defense (because he is a threat to score). With Foster they can play us 5 on 4 when we have the ball. Foster ain't scorin'...

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    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I totally agree with this post Buck. I like Croshere in the start line-up a lot, I just wish he could play SF and we bump Sjack out of the lineup.

    This would be an insanely potent offensive/defensive lineup.

    Tins/Ron/Cro/JO/Foster.

    Everyone in that lineup is a solid rebounder, for a PG Tinsley is really good. Everyone can create offense besides Foster, but we don't need him for that.

    But I know Cro seemingly can't play SF for whatever reasons, but damn that'd be nice.

  12. #12
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I've still got a hard time believing Jeff is going to be the same player.

    Two surgeries on the same hip...
    I thought it was different hips?
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  13. #13
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    It was follow-up surgery on the same hip.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I would now like to thank:
    Jay
    Anthem
    and Hicks

    for getting this song stuck in my head-

    Hip hip
    Hip hip
    Hip hip
    Hip hip

    When you’re on a holiday
    You can’t find the words to say
    All the things that come to you
    And I wanna feel it too

    On an island in the sun
    We’ll be playing and having fun
    And it makes me feel so fine
    I can’t control my brain

    Hip hip
    Hip hip

    When you’re on a golden sea
    You don’t need no memory
    Just a place to call your own
    As we drift into the zone

    On an island in the sun
    We’ll be playing and having fun
    And it makes me feel so fine
    I can’t control my brain

    We’ll run away together
    We’ll spend some time forever
    We’ll never feel bad anymore

    Hip hip
    Hip hip
    Hip hip

    On an island in the sun
    We’ll be playing and having fun
    And it makes me feel so fine
    I can’t control my brain

    We’ll run away together
    We’ll spend some time forever
    We’ll never feel bad anymore

    Hip hip

    We’ll never feel bad anymore
    No no
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    No no
    No no
    No no
    -
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    -Bball
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I don't know how to juggle the rotation....but I really liked it when Croshere and Sarunas were on the floor ( during the Cavs game )....maybe alongside Tinsley ( or SJax ), Artest and JONeal where they were left wide open in the perimeter.....they were fed the ball and they drained the open 3pt shot.

    If Sarunas and Croshere are left as the 4th or 5th scoring option where they are fed the ball and they drain the open 3pt or jumpshot.......then whatever rotation or players that Croshere or Sarunas are paired up with ( Foster or not ), I would be happy.
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    The main thing I would like to see this year is a more stable rotation by the All-Star game. Last year was crazy, and the start of this year it makes sense to try things out. We have some injuries and we want some newer guys to play. But I think this teams needs to play like a veteran title contender. And veteran title contenders play with rock solid rotations. In fact, I would like to see Rick submit all of his substitutions three days in advance to the scorekeeper, just like Bird used to do. And I would like to see an aweful lot of Harrison, Granger and Freddie now, because I don't think any of them should see more than garbage minutes after February.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I'm fine with 2005 Cro starting. He has never played better.

    I would like to see Foster get 20 mins a game. If not for the need to find development time for David I would be content with a three man rotation of JO, Foster and Cro. I'd like to save Pollard's body for specific match ups and the play offs.
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  18. #18
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    This is the post I was writing the very moment that the forum went down. I saved it to email, thinking that my computer was going to lose the post. So this was me after the Clippers game:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
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    Starting Foster, O'Neal & Artest is the best bet.

    That leaves us with Harrison, Croshere & Granger as backups. To quote Eric Cartman, sweeeeeeeeeeeet
    I don't think so. Croshere is earning a starting job if you ask me. It's not like Foster is going to keep guys off of JO.

    There's no need for legacy here. Foster earned his starts in 03/04 over Pollard and Croshere because he out-hustled and out-played them. I see no reason why Croshere shouldn't be given the same reward Foster was given, especially when his play seems even more remarkable than Fosters was then.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I'm really starting to think that the Pacers move somone this year. There's too many players that deserve minutes based on their play, and not enough minutes a game.

    I've really been surprised how many minutes Granger has been getting, and eventhough he's struggling with scoring he's a net plus with all his deflections/steals and rebounding. It would really be a shame to see him start seeing more bench and limiting his onfloor progress.

    Harrison is still really raw, and just needs to play. He's actually starting to look comfortable in every aspect other than low post moves. (skaut nailed it in another thread)

    Cro has been amazing, and you can't sit Ron or JO. Even Pollard has been productive, when he was actually playing.

    Bender not coming back, or so it looks, kind of helps. But I'm guessing Fred and one forward gets moved. It's going to turn into a bigger logjam for minutes. I'm all for depth, but there is a thing as too much depth.

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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadian
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    I'm fine with 2005 Cro starting. He has never played better.

    I would like to see Foster get 20 mins a game. If not for the need to find development time for David I would be content with a three man rotation of JO, Foster and Cro. I'd like to save Pollard's body for specific match ups and the play offs.
    Cro has played well, and deserves to stay in the rotation, but Jeff is a much better defender, and rebounder. We need Jeff to start with J.O., it gives us a better defender against they type of players that have burned us this year like Webber, and Okafor. I'm still of the opinion that this is still a championship run this year for the Pacers. David hasn't proven that he can earn playing time while Foster is out, so I don't see him earning it when Foster returns. I think the vast majority of our 4/5 minutes need to go to J.O., Foster, and Cro. with Pollard, and Harrison picking up minutes in special cases.

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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    This is the post I was writing the very moment that the forum went down. I saved it to email, thinking that my computer was going to lose the post. So this was me after the Clippers game:


    I don't think so. Croshere is earning a starting job if you ask me. It's not like Foster is going to keep guys off of JO.

    There's no need for legacy here. Foster earned his starts in 03/04 over Pollard and Croshere because he out-hustled and out-played them. I see no reason why Croshere shouldn't be given the same reward Foster was given, especially when his play seems even more remarkable than Fosters was then.
    I was thinking that if you start Croshere with O'Neal, Artest, Jackson & Tinsley, then what offense he brings will mean a lot less than if he were on the floor with what would be called, the "second unit".

    He's earn a place is the rotation, no doubt about that. It just depends on what group is out there together that will determine his mpg.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    I'm sorry I want Foster to start. Our rebounding sucks terribly, and that's more important to me than Cro's offense. His rebounding hasn't been bad, but Foster in my opinion is much better.
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  23. #23
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    I'm sorry I want Foster to start. Our rebounding sucks terribly, and that's more important to me than Cro's offense. His rebounding hasn't been bad, but Foster in my opinion is much better.
    I think what we have here is what happens when a 1 dimensional role player does what he does best. It creates a perception that sticks like glue no matter what the stats say in comparison.

    It will be interesting to see what happens as Foster works his way back into game shape.

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  24. #24
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I think what we have here is what happens when a 1 dimensional role player does what he does best. It creates a perception that sticks like glue no matter what the stats say in comparison.

    It will be interesting to see what happens as Foster works his way back into game shape.

    -Bball
    The stats would imply that Foster is a much better rebounder than Cro....
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: Croshere should continue to start even when Foster is healthy

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    The stats would imply that Foster is a much better rebounder than Cro....
    Two whole rebounds a game for his career is now MUCH better?

    BTW, stats would also imply that Croshere is much better at everything else than Jeff....

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