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Thread: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

  1. #51
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I know I've really gotten under somebody's skin when they use Pacemates against me.

    Speaking of under somebody's skin, I'll go back to what I always say when people say there's nothing wrong with JB's knee (are you paying attention, Peck?)
    A year or two ago, it was reported that his kneecap was not stable, that it was loose and literally moving around under the skin. Now, I don't know about you, but if I felt a bone swimming around where it shouldn't be, I wouldn't be walking on it, let alone playing a full contact sport.

    Now, as to why he hasn't had surgery, I'm sure we'd all know if it wasn't for that damn HIPAA. I thought Larry kicking David Craig upstairs was magically going to fix all of our medical problems. (I know the 12-year old kid in the baggy dress shirt sitting on the bench now certainly makes me feel we're in good hands.)

    If JB's refusing surgery, then we should have cut him in August. If the team's given up on him, then we should have cut him in August. But we kept him, thanks to, if nothing else, Donnie and Larry's combined egos, and the dreaded P word.

    Everyone, even probably the Cabbage Patch Kids who hadn't even heard of the Pacers until this summer, decided where they stood on Bender years ago, because the situation hasn't changed for years. Listen to Rat's recording of Rick's show, it's obvious he stopped caring a long time ago. If he play's, he play's, if he doesn't, he doesn't. But if you really feel we need to have more threads, then why don't you save everyone's time and just copy this one every other day, because nothing's going to change, not the situation, nor people's opinions on it. Most of us accepted that a long time ago. I'm sorry you haven't.

    Oh I'm paying attention.

    I'm paying attention how Jon was feeling good enough to play a pickup game vs. Bob Sura (funny isn't it, he always seems to feel good enough for summer pickup games yet can't ever seem to be good enough to play real games) & felt so good that game that he drove & bumped knees.

    Thus he couldn't play.

    Then I noticed after a month had gone by how it was no longer the knee that he hit vs. Bob, it was now that he had not had the proper ligimate development as a child & this was causing him to run funny & of course soreness.

    Then when he still had not come back it was now that his knee was so bad that his patella was floating around & could be moved from side to side. (BTW medically speaking if the patela becomes detached it does not just heal on it's own)

    Then I paid attention to the fact that Jon once again was well enough to play in summer pickup games.

    Then I saw how he came to our summer league team, played one game of what the announcers called uninspired basketball & then went home to rest so he didn't overdo it.

    Then I saw how he was once again how he felt good enough to play in pickup games & a charity game.

    Then I saw him come to camp & on alternate days be good to play, then be sore (which I can understand, this is normal).

    Then I paid real close attention to the paper when they once again attributed last season to bumping knees with Bob Sura, which is what they said to begin with.

    I'm sorry, I'm just going to call bunk on the whole knee is floating loose thing. If that were the case it does not heal on it's own & then if it does heal that's what it is, healed. It will not alternate from injured to healed day after day.

    Soreness? Yes, probably all the time.

    I wouldn't have a single problem, well yes I would but I would just try & ignore him, if whenever he came back from his self imposed vactions that he just was a bench player who played was there as a fill in. But whenever he comes back he is given a spot in the rotation that someone else has earned. We were going to start him vs. Miami over Austin Croshere.

    Now I know your no big fan of Austins & that's fine, but even Jons biggest supporters & Austins biggest detractors have to admit that Austin has played solid steady basketball this year. Jon's played 8 min. Now I admit in those 8 min. he looked pretty good.

    I'll just be honest in my gut I think that Bird is just going to have to sit down with Jon & tell him that he has to play through the soreness.

    But either way, at least I paid attention.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  2. #52
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Jon Barry, not Sura, btw.

  3. #53
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    Jon Barry, not Sura, btw.

    Are you sure? I could have sworn he got hurt vs. Sura.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  4. #54
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    I appreciate the support some have given me here. I didn't really think I crossed any lines with Bender in this thread. First (and importantly), there was an impetus for the posting and that was Bender being in street clothes for a game even the coach expected him to play in. And TV didn't mention Bender.

    So I was curious if once again, by the second game of the season even, if Bender was already on the shelf with his knee problems. APPARENTLY it was for only one game but I see he is listed with an injury for tonight and called 'probable'. With Bender, that doesn't inspire confidence.

    Actually (and arguably), the answer we got was more disconcerting when we found out Carlisle had expected him to play and it was Bender proclaiming himself unfit. It wasn't a team imposed "no back to backs" rule that we hadn't been privy to. We can argue for days whether Bender is really injured or could/should play thru pain. At some point (IMHO) it doesn't matter because it becomes clear he's not going to play through it (whether physically possible or not). And when this is after one game where he only played 8 mins and was not a physical contest then it doesn't bode well for the season. If the team had already planned on this plan of attack (minimum minutes initially... no back to backs...) then there'd be a little more hope and it could be dismissed as being cautious (or arguably overly cautious).

    What should be coming crystal clear is if a player doesn't play he can't help us. He wastes a roster spot. He creates issues for the coaching staff with planning and rotations. He creates issues with money and this can send waves throughout a team. Especially those with expiring contracts. Anybody ever consider how Freddie Jones might feel after answering the bell last season while Bender did not and yet Bender is obviously overpaid while Freddie couldn't get an extension.... And again Bender sits. Even when expected to play he sits (or disappears as he did at summer league). You can't tell me that type of thing doesn't cause issues whether they are spoken publicly or not.

    On a more generic note...
    I've always felt fans get the team they deserve. If you happily accept everything that comes your way you might find management (and even players) don't strive as hard for that next level. That's partly why I don't have a problem with negative stories in the press (assuming they are accurate).

    I'm not so naive to believe one fan complaining can make a difference. OTOH, I do believe a groundswell can make a difference. Whether that means the player (or management) catches wind of fan discontent and casts a more critical eye at their ire or whether that means the local press picks up on it and begins to shine a spotlight on an issue. I believe the extra scrutiny is a good thing.

    I further believe it might have an affect on "next time". Maybe the team is extra certain about themselves and the player to be drafted/traded before they draft a raw (emphassis on "raw") HS kid again. Let alone when they are a contending team. That type of thing is true whether it is Bender or whether it is another scenario playing out. Maybe it is standing pat at the trade deadline one too many times. Maybe it is going into a season with Ron Artest and no real backup plan behind him. Maybe it is holding onto to a 'star' too long and leaving the cupboard bare behind them (Rik Smits).

    IOW, if you don't want to see mistakes repeated I believe we as fans need to make noise when they are happening. Maybe it only makes us feel a little better. Especially when proven right. Or maybe the groundwell gets somebody to take notice and wrongs get righted.

    ...or not...

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  5. #55
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I further believe it might have an affect on "next time". Maybe the team is extra certain about themselves and the player to be drafted/traded before they draft a raw (emphassis on "raw") HS kid again. Let alone when they are a contending team. That type of thing is true whether it is Bender or whether it is another scenario playing out. Maybe it is standing pat at the trade deadline one too many times. Maybe it is going into a season with Ron Artest and no real backup plan behind him. Maybe it is holding onto to a 'star' too long and leaving the cupboard bare behind them (Rik Smits).
    Yeah, because management is incapable of learning from their mistakes on their own, they need you for that.

  6. #56
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Bball, with Bird as president, I don't think you ever have to worry about us drafting HS'ers ever again. Wait, check that, with the new CBA, you don't have to worry about anybody drafting HS'ers ever again.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  7. #57

    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    If Bender plays great; if he doesn't whatever that is what I have come to expect. Our season doesn't hinge on him and really he is a minor story on the Pacers. I can about Bender as much as I care about Gill. Were either moves good moves? Not really. Were either as bad as NY signing Jerome James? No.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

  8. #58
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Yeah, because management is incapable of learning from their mistakes on their own, they need you for that.
    Yeah, you'd think they could... But with a lily soft press, and in year's past an automatic pass or rug lifter (for sweeping things under the rug), I'm not convinced they can.



    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  9. #59
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Yeah, you'd think they could... But with a lily soft press, and in year's past an automatic pass or rug lifter (for sweeping things under the rug), I'm not convinced they can.
    Brad Miller. I rest my case.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Brad Miller. I rest my case.
    I'll let Peck post the link to the thread were you declared you were done talking about him.

  11. #61
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    So... how'd everybody feel about Bender's play tonight?

    I didn't see the game, but his line looks decent.
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  12. #62
    Harmonica
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    Default Re: How'd Bender Do Against the Heat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks
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    I'll let Peck post the link to the thread were you declared you were done talking about him.
    Completely different context. And did I say "done talking about him" or "through debating it?" I don't remember.

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