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Thread: Some positives from Orlando....

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Some positives from Orlando....

    With the J.O. posing thread getting such heavy play (& deservedly so) I think in some ways we kind of forgot to talk about the fact that we won.

    In winning, I saw some things I liked.

    First from a team standpoint. We seemed to be making the effort to make the extra pass last night, even & maybe most impressively Jermaine O'Neal. There were very few times that he tried to back down his man without exploring a pass option. Artest kind of had a couple of times where he took a little longer to get rid of the ball than we would want but even he was looking to make the pass.

    Jamaal Tinsley made several good penetrating drives. He didn't always score & he didn't always get an assist, but he did cause their defense to collapse & on several times he made the pass that led to the pass that got the assist. His defense was also very pesky, I think he had 5 steals or something like that & had several deflections. He did most of this without gambling. He still had the ugliest 3 point shot in the history of the world but that will come & go.

    David Harrison. Did you see him get rebounds????? We prayed all last year & all off season that he would somehow be able to grab some rebounds & it looks like our prayers were answered. The man has a face up game, there can be no doubt about it. our biggest concern this year with him is going to be to make sure we get him enough min. on the floor & with the way he is playing I don't know how we are going to keep him off of it.

    Austin Croshere. A pro's pro. Give him the min. & he will produce. That has never been a question. You see to me, other than another player I won't mention on another team, he is the perfect compliment to our front court. Not Foster. This guy is a utility player in almost all respects, he can do it all & in some cases he can do it very well. He didn't garner a lot of rebounds last night but nobody did really. His shot was dropping so that always helps but I was very very impressed with the defense he was putting on Dwight Howard in the 3rd quarter. He cause him to miss several low post moves just by being strong enough to body him without fouling. I just hope to God that Carlisle doesn't yank Austin around all season long. IMO, he should be the starter unless David Harrison is ready to roll. But either way, we can count on Cro to be a quiet pro & go about doing his job.

    Granger. Physical. Honestly between him & Artest don't we have the most physical small forwards in the NBA. 5 boards in 10 min. I loved when he ende Francises showboating with a foul. Loved it. It wasn't dirty or over hard but he made sure Steve didn't get that shot up. I already love this guy.

    Fred Jones. Needless to say I was shocked that Fred was the sixth man after the crapfest he put up in pre-season. But he played solid last night, more solid than he did all pre-season. As long as he understands that his defense is what will keep him on the floor Fred will have a spot in the rotation.

    Bender. What happened? He played very well in the first half. Hell in fact I was enjoying watching him & Harrison play together (talk about the odd couple but damn does it work) & then he doesn't play in the second half. Carlisle said it was because of matchups? I guess. However it was good to just see the guy play & contribute. I am overly hard on Jon & I gave up years ago on him being a superstar, but if he can give us solid play night in & night out I will be happy.

    Saras. Why am I starting to root for this guy? Trust me, I didn't want him here & I still don't see superstar written all over him like some did when he was in Tel Aviv but I think he played solid smart ball.

    Which brings me to the one down of the night. Anthony Johnson.

    He doesn't deserve this. Now I hope Rick plays him tonight to make up for last night. But if he is going to be the 12th man with DNP-CD's next to his name then for his sake I would like to see him moved on. He is a solid backup & even though I liked what Sauruns brought to the table I didn't think it was any better last night than what A.J. would have brought.

    Jax, O'Neal & Ron have all been discussed already so I won't cover them.

    I thought they all, for the most part, played solid ball. Artest still gets to many min. a game for my taste, but I know I have to accept it.

    Good solid win for the team & I think the bench will be very fun to watch this year.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    The Granger play was outstanding. I don't know what I liked better: the look on Granger's face as he tracked him down or the look on Francis' face as he sat on the floor under the hoop after the play.

    As far as AJ goes, I thought the pressure Nelson put on Sarunas was good enough that I wouldn't have wanted to watch AJ bringing it up.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    With the J.O. posing thread getting such heavy play (& deservedly so) I think in some ways we kind of forgot to talk about the fact that we won.

    In winning, I saw some things I liked.

    First from a team standpoint. We seemed to be making the effort to make the extra pass last night, even & maybe most impressively Jermaine O'Neal. There were very few times that he tried to back down his man without exploring a pass option. Artest kind of had a couple of times where he took a little longer to get rid of the ball than we would want but even he was looking to make the pass.

    Jamaal Tinsley made several good penetrating drives. He didn't always score & he didn't always get an assist, but he did cause their defense to collapse & on several times he made the pass that led to the pass that got the assist. His defense was also very pesky, I think he had 5 steals or something like that & had several deflections. He did most of this without gambling. He still had the ugliest 3 point shot in the history of the world but that will come & go.

    David Harrison. Did you see him get rebounds????? We prayed all last year & all off season that he would somehow be able to grab some rebounds & it looks like our prayers were answered. The man has a face up game, there can be no doubt about it. our biggest concern this year with him is going to be to make sure we get him enough min. on the floor & with the way he is playing I don't know how we are going to keep him off of it.

    Austin Croshere. A pro's pro. Give him the min. & he will produce. That has never been a question. You see to me, other than another player I won't mention on another team, he is the perfect compliment to our front court. Not Foster. This guy is a utility player in almost all respects, he can do it all & in some cases he can do it very well. He didn't garner a lot of rebounds last night but nobody did really. His shot was dropping so that always helps but I was very very impressed with the defense he was putting on Dwight Howard in the 3rd quarter. He cause him to miss several low post moves just by being strong enough to body him without fouling. I just hope to God that Carlisle doesn't yank Austin around all season long. IMO, he should be the starter unless David Harrison is ready to roll. But either way, we can count on Cro to be a quiet pro & go about doing his job.

    Granger. Physical. Honestly between him & Artest don't we have the most physical small forwards in the NBA. 5 boards in 10 min. I loved when he ende Francises showboating with a foul. Loved it. It wasn't dirty or over hard but he made sure Steve didn't get that shot up. I already love this guy.

    Fred Jones. Needless to say I was shocked that Fred was the sixth man after the crapfest he put up in pre-season. But he played solid last night, more solid than he did all pre-season. As long as he understands that his defense is what will keep him on the floor Fred will have a spot in the rotation.

    Bender. What happened? He played very well in the first half. Hell in fact I was enjoying watching him & Harrison play together (talk about the odd couple but damn does it work) & then he doesn't play in the second half. Carlisle said it was because of matchups? I guess. However it was good to just see the guy play & contribute. I am overly hard on Jon & I gave up years ago on him being a superstar, but if he can give us solid play night in & night out I will be happy.

    Saras. Why am I starting to root for this guy? Trust me, I didn't want him here & I still don't see superstar written all over him like some did when he was in Tel Aviv but I think he played solid smart ball.

    Which brings me to the one down of the night. Anthony Johnson.

    He doesn't deserve this. Now I hope Rick plays him tonight to make up for last night. But if he is going to be the 12th man with DNP-CD's next to his name then for his sake I would like to see him moved on. He is a solid backup & even though I liked what Sauruns brought to the table I didn't think it was any better last night than what A.J. would have brought.

    Jax, O'Neal & Ron have all been discussed already so I won't cover them.

    I thought they all, for the most part, played solid ball. Artest still gets to many min. a game for my taste, but I know I have to accept it.

    Good solid win for the team & I think the bench will be very fun to watch this year.
    Good post per usual!

    I have a question about last nights game and I was waiting for someone to start a game thread so I could ask it. Does anyone else think Grangers block on Frances was questionable?

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    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Good post per usual!

    I have a question about last nights game and I was waiting for someone to start a game thread so I could ask it. Does anyone else think Grangers block on Frances was questionable?
    In what way questionable? I thought it was awfully close to being a clean block.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I loved that Granger play. It shows me that he has tons of passion and will never ever give up, and those are the types of role players that can make a difference in only playing 10 minutes.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen
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    Good post per usual!

    I have a question about last nights game and I was waiting for someone to start a game thread so I could ask it. Does anyone else think Grangers block on Frances was questionable?

    I'm not sure what your asking Wil. Are you saying was it a questionable flagrant 1?

    Like MR said, it was awfully close to just being a block. I think he was making a basketball play so IMO it wasn't a flagrant. But I could see where you would get the thought.


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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I tried to convince LA, as we sat at the bar last night, that it was clean block. He wasn't buying it, there was some body contact after the block. From the original angle, it looked clean.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I think somebody forgot to tel Francis that the pre-season was over before the game started. Danny should have never even had the opportunity for the foul...

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay@Section204
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    I tried to convince LA, as we sat at the bar last night, that it was clean block. He wasn't buying it, there was some body contact after the block. From the original angle, it looked clean.
    Well, if we're going to get into specifics, it wasn't "body" contact I saw, it was arm-on-arm contact. His forearm seemed to be hitting the shooting arm just as his hand hit the ball.

    It was a play that could have been a non-call just as easily as it could have been a flagrant. Either one of those results would have sent either coach into an uproar. I'm satisfied with the middle ground on that one, and think it was the right call to make.

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Peck, I'm a kind of guy that admits when he's wrong, and I was wrong in our discussion about Cro early last week.

    I admitted at the time I hadn't watched any preseason games due to tv scheduling, not to mention my own.

    But WOW. He played a reasonably quiet game. He was never the 3rd option on the floor, and managed to fill it up. The key to his game is knocking down the outside shot, maybe not a three but somewhere in the area. He stretched the defense, then slipped in the back when the shot when up to put pressure on the rebounder.

    JO's play last night was right where I like it. He didn't look like he was forcing things, and even dumped the ball to AC and Ron when they cut through for layups. Also, I really like the turn around. It isn't a fade, but instead he went straight up. That makes all the difference in the world on the accuracy and being able to defend it.

    Ron wasn't that impressive to me. He seemed.......tentative. He knew he needed to score, but didn't put himself in position to do it, besides the 3rd quarter. I hated watching him pound the ball with 5 secs left on the clock only to throw up a 3 at the buzzer. If he knows he's going to take the last shot, please do something with it. Shoot it earlier so the D doesn't know exactly when it's coming, or how about two hard dribbles and a pull up? Was very impressed on his and-1 though. I don't care how strong/weak a defender is. Some that weighs 100lbs is strong enough to wrap up and not let a shot off, but he busted right through and still had enough to take another step.

    Bender looked good. Don't want him to really press, but would definately like to see him look to attack when he has the ball.

    Sauras' shot is amazing. I don't know how he actually has form on it being that quick. It looks like he just flings it up there from the behind camera angle. He played okay, nothing special, nothing bad either.

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Which brings me to the one down of the night. Anthony Johnson.

    He doesn't deserve this. Now I hope Rick plays him tonight to make up for last night. But if he is going to be the 12th man with DNP-CD's next to his name then for his sake I would like to see him moved on. He is a solid backup & even though I liked what Sauruns brought to the table I didn't think it was any better last night than what A.J. would have brought.
    I agree. I admit I didn't get to see the game last night (blacked out in my area), I think that AJ and Saras should share that spot. I didn't think that Cabbage was going to be as good as he is, but that still is no reason to totally abandon a solid and improving guard like AJ. He doesn't deserve to ride the bench, the man is a soldier.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Per Granger's block, my Tivo had picked up the Orlando feed over WB4 (Bad Tivo! Bad, bad Tivo!!!) Anyway, it was funny that the Orlando announcers thought it was Artest on that play, and they were absolutely shocked when they realized it was the rook. You could almost hear them muttering, "Oh F**k, this kid's good."

    And yes, Cro looked so good, it took me almost half the game before I remembered that if he stays true to form, he will absolutely play horrible tonight.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I almost laugh when I read that someone thinks Saras isn't a good NBA point guard yet and questions the decision to acquire him. You'd think he was being paid something other than average NBA money.

    Sarunas J. is probably already the best backup point in the league. The pass on the break to Danny Granger last night was money and something we don't see enough of. His defense is adequate and his shooting is badly needed.

    Jamaal also played well last night. With Saras and Tinsley our point guard play is not sensational but is now good enough to take us to the Finals.

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I'm not sure what your asking Wil. Are you saying was it a questionable flagrant 1?

    Like MR said, it was awfully close to just being a block. I think he was making a basketball play so IMO it wasn't a flagrant. But I could see where you would get the thought.
    My fault! I asked if the block was questionable, I meant to ask if the foul was questionable, not the block. I see from some answers that others found it questionable too. Thanks guys!

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    damn, I'm really looking forward to todays game on TNT. Can't wait to see Granger McDanger and Jazi get out there. It'll be nice to see Artest and maybe a little Bender as well. I also think that AJ should get some minutes. Carlisle has a tough job on his hands right now in finding minutes for everyone. Wait until Foster and Pollard get back. Minutes are going to be really hard to come by for some of our guys.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    I almost laugh when I read that someone thinks Saras isn't a good NBA point guard yet and questions the decision to acquire him. You'd think he was being paid something other than average NBA money.

    Sarunas J. is probably already the best backup point in the league. The pass on the break to Danny Granger last night was money and something we don't see enough of. His defense is adequate and his shooting is badly needed.

    Jamaal also played well last night. With Saras and Tinsley our point guard play is not sensational but is now good enough to take us to the Finals.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Cro needs to work on defending against the lob but otherwise his D has been competitive. When Austin plays with confidence, as he is now, he is indeed an asset. We're lucky to have him.

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    Who do you think is better?

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    David Harrison. Did you see him get rebounds????? We prayed all last year & all off season that he would somehow be able to grab some rebounds & it looks like our prayers were answered.

    I called this.

    I had seen enough of David to think that he would later become a much better rebounder. A lot of the time he just couldn't hand on to the ball, but towards the end of last season we saw his hands improving.

    And now, he's max 10 games from starting.




    Also, I think we should experiment with playing AJ at the 2 guard instead of Fred.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I think Artest will log heavy minutes the first 10-15, maybe even 20 games to get him back to his pre-brawl level. After that I hope to see his minutes go down so that Granger can play more minutes at SF, while Bender can in a small line up shift to PF. Or in another option Jackson can slide to SF, while Sarunas, Freddie or AJ move into the 2 spot.

    Either way, minutes are going to be a problem during the regular season, but a pleasant problem, I hope. I really would like to see less minutes for JO, Artest, Jackson and Tinsley on the floor. We'll see how Rick works or figures it out. I'm happy the season started!

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    I think we need either Ron or JO on the floor most of the game. They really are better than anyone else we have.

    I don't want to see us fall into the old Portland syndrome of trying to play too many people.

    Ron or JO playing with the second unit makes those guys dangerous.

    Ron probably needs to play as many minutes as his body can take right now. Not so, of course, with JO.

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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I guess it depends on whether you are in the camp that believes that AJ was the best back-up point in the league last year, because Saras is clearly better than AJ.
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Rick said that he kept JB in because of mathchups.

    I think they all did fairly well. Cro is on fiya this season. He looks sooo much different then he did last season and to think we might have let him go. Danger is great and I swear that Francis block was ALL BALL! He's niiiice! He has massive dunks too!

    Fred did a lot better than I think he would do. Started off kind of bad with the 2 offensive fouls but picked it up with a 3 then ended with 7 points with a few assists.

    Hulk was great and a lot quicker than last year. His jumper is getting better too. but still theres nothing better than a HULK SLAM!

    I look forward to seeing all of them play tonight and Rick using the depth to his advantage. FIREMAN!--PUT OUT THE HEAT!

  24. #24
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    I guess it depends on whether you are in the camp that believes that AJ was the best back-up point in the league last year, because Saras is clearly better than AJ.
    How so?

    Was his defense better than A.J.'s? I don't think so.

    Was his off the ball movement better than A.J.'s? I don't think so.

    Was his shooting better than A.J.'s? Maybe, but let's not forget that A.J. is no slouch in the shooting department either.

    Was his ball handling better than A.J.'s? Yes, although I will say that he had some trouble with any pressure defense in the backcourt, but he was still better than A.J.

    Did he run the offense better? This is where you have to say yes.

    But that alone does not make him clearly better than A.J. There are two sides of the floor both offense & defense & for as better that Sara is about running the offense, A.J. is better about defense.

    I like both of them. Which is a big step up for me because I was not a fan of bringing Saras in here.


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    Default Re: Some positives from Orlando....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade
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    I guess it depends on whether you are in the camp that believes that AJ was the best back-up point in the league last year, because Saras is clearly better than AJ.
    Or in the camp that thinks that international play is somewhere inbetween the local park pickup games and high school games.

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