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Thread: Please JO, not again this year

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by cramerica
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    I understand the getting back on defense aspect and why that is something he needs to do, but some of you guys seem like you want to trade him just because he's showing emotion.
    This is simply an observation and the stating of my opinion on the issue nothing more. Trading JO won't be an option for a long time to come. It defintely isn't an option for me. He'll get there eventually, he'll get it.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Yeah its annoying when he does it...but its not a big deal.... that late game fadeaway turnaround bank shot was a much more highly skilled play...and he didn't make a spectical of himself after that play. I wish he would get more boards....but I thought he had a great game. He played excellent D, got his teammates involved and was efficient offensively.

    Now Francis on the other hand, when he was making gestures to the bench or stands before he went up for a dunk...was completely unprofessional.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Now Francis on the other hand, when he was making gestures to the bench or stands before he went up for a dunk...was completely unprofessional.
    I'm glad Danger came over and bursted his bubble..

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    If anybody had a right to a staredown last night it was Dwight Howard. When he threw that dunk down on Jermaine's head I felt the vibrations back up here in Indiana.

    But did he stare him down? No.

    I could write an epic long post about this entire issue & my gut feelings on why this is the problem with the NBA, but it would be a waste of time.

    Let's just say this, Ali left us with two legacy's. One good & one not so good IMO.

    1. He was a great boxer, maybe the best there ever was.

    2. He made it fashionable to not only win but to degrade your opponet in the process.

    I'm sorry, I still beleive in sportsmanship & whenever you feel the need to do this you are not only promoting yourself but you are degrading the person you just did that to.

    I feel it's wrong, but many of you don't. That's fine.

    Scott has already stated how I feel on the topic & I want to go one step further.

    I had a problem with Reggie whenever he would do the stupid crap as well. There was a differance though, to the best of my memory I never saw Reggie standing back celebrating while not getting back on defense.

    As to the shoe sell thing, yip you are correct. Attitude does sell shoes & all of the self promotion sells jerseys.

    But at the end of the day, for the NBA not the individual players, what is more important. Selling a younger person a pair of $125.00 shoes & a Jersey once a year or selling someone a season ticket or partial season ticket or 10 package?

    The NBA is alienating some of their fan base because they are marketing to the wrong crowd.

    Ok, now ends my old grumpy man rant.

    At the end of the day, we won so let's have some dancing fruit.


    How do you do that? All these posts and you just pop in from nowhere and put the cap on it.

    Ahhhhh to be like Peck...

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy
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    JO's (and other Pacers) showboating is exactly why many fans (myself included) can not get as behind this team as I once did. I am a HUGE Pacer fan, but every time JO, Ron, Stephen, Mel-Mel, etc tries to make themselves bigger than the team on the court, it makes me sick. Have the people who have been defending JO been listening to Reggie's criticism of the team. He says that they are immature and prone to in-fighting. That speaks of being mentally weak and self-centered (among other things). Normally I keep my mouth quiet and just lurk, but I too was disappointed again by some of the actions on the court last night and by the asinine defense of his actions. The sad thing is last night is probably only just the beginning of the "look at me - aren't I great" crap that will keep us behind Detroit and the Spurs.

    Nobody is asking for people to be robots or sleepwalk out on the court, but do the job like you have been there before. Leave the "look at me" celebrations for when they actually count (i.e. winning Game 7 of the NBA Finals).

    I chalk up many of the supports of JO to the SportsCenter generation. The JO staredowns, Fatoine shimmy, the TO sharpies, the Chad Johnson anything - they all have a time and a place. What bothers me is the lack of subtlety or timing. Celebrate when you do something outstanding - not every made bucket, first down catch or wide open reception. That is one aspect that irks me. The other is that historically "champions" in any sport are the guys who either don't overtly celebrate individually or if they do it is highly selective. Name me one Piston, Spurs or Patriot who is known more for their "stare downs" or "TD dances" than they are for their contributions to the team victory.

    JO's antics are endemic of a self centered player, not a leader.
    Well put, Shaggy. Post more often. Don't let the remarks of an immature kid keep you from stating your opinions more often. By the way, I found Reggie's remarks to be quite enlightening and a little disconcerting as well. He further went on to say that he preferred to be there (in the studio) than on the court - and even though he made an off-handed remark about it being easier on his ankles, I felt like there was more to it than that. Like he was glad the ride was over because he felt like it was going nowhere. And when he picked Detroit to win the East, I felt like he might have been trying to send a message to his former teammates. Question is, were they listening?

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    But at the end of the day, for the NBA not the individual players, what is more important. Selling a younger person a pair of $125.00 shoes & a Jersey once a year or selling someone a season ticket or partial season ticket or 10 package?

    The NBA is alienating some of their fan base because they are marketing to the wrong crowd.
    I'll have to disagree with you just a little bit.

    First of all, I don't think it's the NBA that is responsible for the most in-your-face "street" marketing. I think most of that stuff comes from the manufacturers and soft drink makers.

    Secondly, If you get 100 million people worldwide to spend $200 a piece on merchandise, that's 20 BILLON dollars. Now compare that to gross ticket sales. add $500 a piece in purchasing all manner of non-NBA products endorsed by players, and we're talking another $50 Billion dollars. (I'm making up numbers just to make a point, btw.)

    When it comes to the brass tacks I think you can sell season tickets AND jerseys at the same time. The fact of the matter is, you need to.

    But this cuts to the quick: The season ticket holders hold a nice slice of the pie when it comes to league revenue and the basketball driven economy. But that doesn't make them the only fans and it certainly doesn't make them the most important fans.

    I think part of the problem with the state of the NBA is the attitude of season ticket holders themselves. Sometimes I get the feeling that they think they are buying more than good seats and winning teams to watch when they buy their tickets. Fact is, when you buy a ticket, you get a seat, not a say.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    He further went on to say that he preferred to be there (in the studio) than on the court - and even though he made an off-handed remark about it being easier on his ankles, I felt like there was more to it than that. Like he was glad the ride was over because he felt like it was going nowhere. And when he picked Detroit to win the East, I felt like he might have been trying to send a message to his former teammates. Question is, were they listening?
    Maybe Harmonica but Reggie also admitted to not having the legs to dunk the ball on the now infamous block. Reggie gave all of it last year and had enough respect for the fans and himself not to hold the team back any longer.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Well put, Shaggy. Post more often. Don't let the remarks of an immature kid keep you from stating your opinions more often. By the way, I found Reggie's remarks to be quite enlightening and a little disconcerting as well. He further went on to say that he preferred to be there (in the studio) than on the court - and even though he made an off-handed remark about it being easier on his ankles, I felt like there was more to it than that. Like he was glad the ride was over because he felt like it was going nowhere. And when he picked Detroit to win the East, I felt like he might have been trying to send a message to his former teammates. Question is, were they listening?
    Yeah an immature kid who knows 2 times more about basketball then you do.

  9. #59
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    Default For those who didn't like it

    did you feel the same way when Ron showed his bicep when shrugging off Stephenson and got that And-1 last night?

    personally, i don't mind JO or anyone showing emotion. a lot of folks always talk about how these guys don't care. well, he's showing emotion, he's showing that he cares... it's cool to me, as long as he gets back. all of that didn't result in Orlando scoring on the other end did it? Reggie would do the same thing... did you criticize Reggie for it?

  10. #60
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    Default Re: For those who didn't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by NaptownBound
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    did you feel the same way when Ron showed his bicep when shrugging off Stephenson and got that And-1 last night?

    personally, i don't mind JO or anyone showing emotion. a lot of folks always talk about how these guys don't care. well, he's showing emotion, he's showing that he cares... it's cool to me, as long as he gets back. all of that didn't result in Orlando scoring on the other end did it? Reggie would do the same thing... did you criticize Reggie for it?
    Yes, every single time.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: For those who didn't like it

    Quote Originally Posted by NaptownBound
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    did you feel the same way when Ron showed his bicep when shrugging off Stephenson and got that And-1 last night?

    personally, i don't mind JO or anyone showing emotion. a lot of folks always talk about how these guys don't care. well, he's showing emotion, he's showing that he cares... it's cool to me, as long as he gets back. all of that didn't result in Orlando scoring on the other end did it? Reggie would do the same thing... did you criticize Reggie for it?
    Heck yes I did. Although, I criticized him for whining to the refs more.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Maybe Harmonica but Reggie also admitted to not having the legs to dunk the ball on the now infamous block. Reggie gave all of it last year and had enough respect for the fans and himself not to hold the team back any longer.
    Perhaps, but again, it seemed like there was more to his comments than what was actually being said.

  13. #63
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Jermaniac
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    Yeah an immature kid who knows 2 times more about basketball then you do.
    Well, hopefully you'll put that knowledge to good use someday.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    By the way, I found Reggie's remarks to be quite enlightening and a little disconcerting as well. He further went on to say that he preferred to be there (in the studio) than on the court - and even though he made an off-handed remark about it being easier on his ankles, I felt like there was more to it than that. Like he was glad the ride was over because he felt like it was going nowhere. And when he picked Detroit to win the East, I felt like he might have been trying to send a message to his former teammates. Question is, were they listening?
    The answer is simple... Reggie is now a hater!

    -Bball
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  15. #65
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by StephanJackson1
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    When he stares after he dunks that just gets him pumped up and he plays better
    Getting pumped up is what steroids are for.

    When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was going to be about him arguing with the refs. I don't like JO's posturing after dunks either. I didn't like the X Mark Jackson would make either. I also find it annoying when Jason Kidd blows kisses before he shoots free throws. Call me crazy, but I watch basketball for basketball not all the showboating that goes on.

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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    The answer is simple... Reggie is now a hater!

    -Bball

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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
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    I also find it annoying when Jason Kidd blows kisses before he shoots free throws. Call me crazy, but I watch basketball for basketball not all the showboating that goes on.

    I'm not completely positive on it, but I would be willing to bet that him doing that is more for his wife, or maybe kids. Jeff Hornachek(sp?) with the Jazz used to wipe his face twice so when his kids saw it on TV they'd know that he was thinking of them and that he loved them. I remember him telling an interviewer that when they went to the Finals. So I would hardly consider that showboating, and I have a lot of respect for players that show their feelings for others in actions.

    Getting back to the topic. JO's man takes the ball out of bounds after plays like that. So as long as he runs beside him and gets back in time, I personally see no problem with it basketball wise. I won't bad mouth his defense until he gets beat down the floor.

    We can argue til we're blue in the face about if it's being a bad sport or not, that's personal preference, but I'm not aware of one time where the pose actually DID limit his ability to play defense, not just that it could.

    BTW getting dunked on is degrading in itself, so I'm not sure it's adding all that much to it.

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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Question is, were they listening?
    I too read into Reggie's quotes on TNT, the Ron Artest interview with Real Sports, the Letterman interview, etc that he was tired of being Uncle Reggie to a bunch of 20-somethings. As a parent, I love me kids - but, there are times when I want to yell "these kids are driving me crazy" and go screaming down the road. And again, I love my kids. Look at Reggie - a class act, future HOF. I can't say that he loves his teammates, but I do think he said by his the action of his retirement and his recent comments that "these kids are driving me crazy". How many times in recent years did Reggie say that they (i.e. JO and Ron) need to grow up and take the big shots themselves because Uncle Reg will not always be there?

    I also have wondered if his scathing criticism of the team (being mentally weak and immature is not a trivial criticism) will also help this team. The irony is that his criticism could have the opposite affect. Instead of the team looking inside and challengingly themselves to "grow up", the team could pull one of the great 21st Century clichés out and say "well, it is just us against the world". I hope not, but recent history has not been kind for them.

    Just want to be very clear here. I am a Pacers fan. However, I am a Seinfeld sports fan. I root for the laundry first and then those who play in the laundry second. If I can find a reason to rally around Greg Drieling, Michael Williams or Sean Green, I can support JO, et al. The name on the front of the jersey will always be more important to me than the name on the back.

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    I'm not completely positive on it, but I would be willing to bet that him doing that is more for his wife, or maybe kids. Jeff Hornachek(sp?) with the Jazz used to wipe his face twice so when his kids saw it on TV they'd know that he was thinking of them and that he loved them. I remember him telling an interviewer that when they went to the Finals. So I would hardly consider that showboating, and I have a lot of respect for players that show their feelings for others in actions.
    I'm glad I read this. Now I get it... when I see players NOT preening and prancing and showboating after a play I'll know they don't love their familiers and are disrepecting them.

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I'm glad I read this. Now I get it... when I see players NOT preening and prancing and showboating after I play I'll know they don't love their familiers and are disrepecting them.

    -Bball

    Kissing your fingertips before you shoot a FT is now "preening, prancing, and showboating"? WOW I must of missed that Sportscenter episode, and since I'm in the ESPN generation that was mentioned earlier.

    There's a big, big, big, BIG difference between signaling to a loved one, than staring someone down after a play. Jeff H., the same player that rivaled Stockton for the smallest shorts on the Jazz, is light years away from a showboater.

    Glad you missed the point and mixed the two.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Kissing your fingertips before you shoot a FT is now "preening, prancing, and showboating"? WOW I must of missed that Sportscenter episode, and since I'm in the ESPN generation that was mentioned earlier.

    There's a big, big, big, BIG difference between signaling to a loved one, than staring someone down after a play. Jeff H., the same player that rivaled Stockton for the smallest shorts on the Jazz, is light years away from a showboater.

    Glad you missed the point and mixed the two.
    OK... I get it now... It's the size of a player's shorts that show his love for family. The shorter they are, the more love...



    You are correct... I missed your point before (didn't pay enough attention to what you had quoted from Grace). I thought you were equating JO's actions with Hornacek's.

    -Bball
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  22. #72
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    Default well, at least you guys are consistent

    Quote Originally Posted by Harddrive7
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    Heck yes I did. Although, I criticized him for whining to the refs more.
    but i'm saying... when Reggie was giving Spike Lee the business at the Garden, you were hating that? really? i've never known a Pacers fan who hated to see Reggie stick to the Knicks and gloat about it. you guys must be an abberration.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: well, at least you guys are consistent

    Quote Originally Posted by NaptownBound
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    but i'm saying... when Reggie was giving Spike Lee the business at the Garden, you were hating that? really? i've never known a Pacers fan who hated to see Reggie stick to the Knicks and gloat about it. you guys must be an abberration.

    You should have seen & heard me after Reggie bowed in Chicago. I litterally had a turrets syndrome cursing fit the min. he did that. The Spike thing has just been one of those things. When he did it I wasn't thrilled, but unlike J.O., Reggie was retaliating. So I don't consider it the same, but I do think it was out of line for the most part. However, since it was Spike....


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  24. #74

    Default Re: well, at least you guys are consistent

    Quote Originally Posted by NaptownBound
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    i've never known a Pacers fan who hated to see Reggie stick to the Knicks and gloat about it.
    Reggie's antics is all about the right time and the right place. In the heat of the playoffs, against the hated Knicks, in MSG, with all of the Knicks vs. Hicks crap, with Spike in the front row; Reggie's stuff was great.

    However, if Reggie was doing the same thing with some drunken fan in Washington or New Orleans in a game in March, I would be all over it. Have you heard the phrase "timing is everything"?

    Again, no one is saying that JO (or others) should never show emotion. Just pick select moments when the time, location, situation, opponent, etc is right and then flex and scowl away. If JO wants to do that once in the late stages of a blowout victory over Detroit, I have no problem. Notice the word "once". Again, back to the subtlety point. Why preen and scowl on every dunk, in every game, against every opponent?

    - OK, three posts in one day is definitely a record for me. I am slinking back to my cave now.

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Please JO, not again this year

    Quote Originally Posted by waxman
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    Yeah its annoying when he does it...but its not a big deal.... that late game fadeaway turnaround bank shot was a much more highly skilled play...and he didn't make a spectical of himself after that play. I wish he would get more boards....but I thought he had a great game. He played excellent D, got his teammates involved and was efficient offensively.

    Now Francis on the other hand, when he was making gestures to the bench or stands before he went up for a dunk...was completely unprofessional.
    I loved that play by Granger. I wish that would happen more often when a player starts to showboat. Granger showed me that he has a defensive intensity.
    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."
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