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Thread: Reggie's comments!

  1. #51

    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Am I the only one who interpreted Reggie's remark about questionable team chemistry for the Pacers to actually mean, simply, that they have Ron Artest on the team and many players believe that they cannot count on him?

    I hope the team chemistry concept boils down to only one individual, because I have to believe that Larry and Donnie have a long-range plan to deal with that as soon as Ron plays well enough long enough to reacquire legitimate trade value.

  2. #52
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom
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    I hope the team chemistry concept boils down to only one individual, because I have to believe that Larry and Donnie have a long-range plan to deal with that as soon as Ron plays well enough long enough to reacquire legitimate trade value.
    I told quite a few other forum members that I think that is exactly Donnie and Larry's long range plan. Ron has a fundamental ignorance, not wholly his own fault, that makes him have trouble with simple life decisions. I suspect that Donie and Larry can see that as being a crumbling brick in the locker room on which to build a title winning foundation.

    There are too many emrging players on teams we could possibly makes deals either due to our connections with them (Golden State, Philly, NY) or a history of being dealers or teams on the brink (Mavs, Grizzlies.)

    Yeah, polish Ron up, makes him bright and shiney, then tell the Mavs how they need a stopper like him for Maquis and Diop, or some such thing. (I don't know how the salaries work out, just giving a frex.)

    I didn't take Reggie to be infering Ron, but that seems a pretty valid interpretation.
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Until someone beats the Pistons and gets to the Finals, the Pistons still have to be considered the favorite. They haven't lost any key players. You may say they will go down because of the loss of Larry Brown, but the players are still the same if not better. You may say that the Heat or Pacers are now the better team because of the offseason moves in Miami or because of Ron being back or Sarunas. I'll say it once they beat the Pistons in the playoffs. They're still the East Champs, like it or not.

  4. #54
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    I know this is as good as blasphemy, but has anyone considered Reggie to be one of the "problems" in the lockerroom?

    As I said earlier (ok long time ago) Reggie was looked upon by most as"uncle Reg" the team leader. He himself however did not want to be that leader, except by "example"

    Considering his age and experience he was lightyears away from most team members that also "mattered" like Ron, JO and Tins, all generations younger, coming from completely different backgrounds etc.
    Is it at all possible that Reggie could not "relate" to the remaining team members, or does it HAVE to be Ron Artest?

    I am willing to believe what I hear and read about Ron and JO, and I "taste" a far better chemistry at the moment, and when I then relate Reggie's remark, I think that He nad JO would not have been a problem, but they were "the establishment" on the team, Ron, Jax, Tins, and others, might have been "scared of" by that or saw it as a canyon they could not (or did not want to) cross.

    We are in a new situation and imo we must realize that things are very different from previous years, certainly if it comes to "chemistry" and such. This team is much closer in age, been together some time, and disapproval of one teammate NOW unlike the disapproval of Reggie, is far more a peer matter then it was before
    Also JO is now the "real" leader of the team, and not the token one with the nestor in the background.

    Strangely enough I am not that worried about chemistry this year.
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  5. #55
    teY dennaB toN
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    I firmly reside in pacertom and Skaut Ech's camp. The Pacers are just being patient at this point. I think that Bird is willing to see if the team can play championship caliber basketball as currently constructed (i.e. with Ron). But, I also believe Bird is trying to polish up Ron, so to speak, and will jump on the right trade offer.

    I think unless we are, at the very least, in the NBA finals this year (and competitive), Ron will be playing for a different team by the start of next season. And, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if it was by the trade deadline this season if we are "underachieving."

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Reggie the problem? Reggie not a good team mate?

    These are two questions posed above by two differant posters.

    Now I put this to the entire forum.

    Does anybody want to take this challenge head on?

    Is there anyone who is going to argue that the reason for the teams problems over the past couple of years is that Reggie Miller was the problem or that he could not get along with team mates?

    Is there one person who is going to stand up & say that Ron Artest is a better team mate than Reggie Miller or that given a choice between Ron Artest & Reggie Miller the focus of the teams problems were Reggie?

    Or if you don't want to use Ron insert the name Jermaine.

    I was never EVER Reggie Millers biggest fan, but given the choices from above????? It's not even close.


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Did Ben lose his cool?
    Hmmmm Did Ben lose his cool or was it a calculated move that worked far better than he ever imagined.... ?

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  8. #58
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Reggie the problem? Reggie not a good team mate?



    Is there anyone who is going to argue that the reason for the teams problems over the past couple of years is that Reggie Miller was the problem or that he could not get along with team mates?
    The closest I could see an argument being built would be over either arguably Reggie's legacy starts and/or possibly the money he commanded for the last 2 years that maybe some felt would've been spent elsewhere for a stronger team (if Reggie would have taken a more drastic paycut).

    Reggie coming off the bench would've allowed Al his coveted starting spot if Artest played SG. I suppose an argument could be made that some of the team didn't like "Reggie the Deferrer" any more than some of the fans and felt he either could contribute more... or should do that off the bench. ...Or maybe some felt his defense wasn't up to the standards of the rest of the team (and by playing such a deferring role on offense) he held them back.

    Of course if any did feel that way, 11/19 changed everything anyway. It also provided everyone a glimpse that Reggie had more in the tank than anyone ever imagined (except for 3ptMiller).

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  9. #59
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Once again, regular season.

    And your right about them without LB, thats why they won't return to the finals.

    I still expect them to beat us.
    You expect the Raptors to beat us

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Who cares who Reggie picked? The much beloved Peter Vecsey says Pacers in 6 over the Spurs......

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Reggie the problem? Reggie not a good team mate?

    These are two questions posed above by two differant posters.

    Now I put this to the entire forum.

    Does anybody want to take this challenge head on?

    Is there anyone who is going to argue that the reason for the teams problems over the past couple of years is that Reggie Miller was the problem or that he could not get along with team mates?

    Is there one person who is going to stand up & say that Ron Artest is a better team mate than Reggie Miller or that given a choice between Ron Artest & Reggie Miller the focus of the teams problems were Reggie?

    Or if you don't want to use Ron insert the name Jermaine.

    I was never EVER Reggie Millers biggest fan, but given the choices from above????? It's not even close.
    I think I see what able is gettig at. I think it's an attitude mirrored in the admittedly inconseqential to some, clothing edict.

    Reggie is more of an establishment type, suits when not playing, do things the right way, etc, types.

    Then we have the next generation of cornrow wearing, shirts untucked, rap star aspriing types.

    Able's saying that maybe Reggie didn't mesh with the new breed?

    Probably so.

    Was he the problem under this scenario? Hell, no.

    Peck and I have been like-minded about Reggie. We thought he was an arrogant, blowhard when he came into the league and grudgingly came to respect him and what he could do.

    IF there was a problem, I can see some of the team not truly respecting what Reggie has done with his career. (by point of example, I like how Garnett has studied players of old. He can tell you about the generation of players before him. How many Pacer fans get a blank look when you talk about the team before Reggie joined them.) I think the respect was there, but maybe not to the degree Reggie would have liked. And maybe there's some contentiousness becasue of that. Kinda like the dad wondering why his son won't heed his teachings of his life lessons.

    I don't see any way possible Reggie could have been the problem. Certain people do thjings the right way and far as I'm concerned, if you can't follow ther lead, then YOU are the problem, not them.

    I truly can't see any scenario where Reggie is, or was the problem. I can see Ron being too thick-headed to listen. I can see maybe Hulk not being smart enough to grasp the nuances of what he's being taught and not trying enough. I can see Tinsley being too emotional at times to listen to being taught, but I just can't se reggie ever being the problem under any senario. And I'm not a huge Reggie fan.
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  12. #62
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Peck, I have not said Reggie was not a good teammate, not once, don't put words in my text that weren't there to begin with please

    I didn't even mean to imply such, but was more looking at a "chilled" atmosphere as you can have in a situation where there is "unease" in the air, which prevents a far better "gelling".


    A situation where someone has to deal with the top brass of the firm he works for while being used to the guys on the workfloor.
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  13. #63
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Along the same lines Bball has shared was Reggie truely the Uncle Reg we all thought. While not out spoken or a cancer to the team could there have been some underlying jealously? Nothing that slaps you in the face but know is there? Did Reg crave the spotlight a little more than he let on. How many shoe deals did Reg get where you saw his mug in comercials (1 was it?). How many has JO already been and yet maybe in some minds does not deserve. I wonder why Reggie decided on TNT instead of going onto something else like the majority of former players do?
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    ......so Reggie goes from the reason his teamates were playing so hard last year to the reason they didnt play well together last year?

    I guess the "remember why #31" on JO's shoes meant, "remember why we're losing- it's all because of Reggie."

    ....so Reggie comes out and doesn't pick the Pacers to make the finals, and all of a sudden he's a cancer and the REASON the Pacers didn't fare better in the playoffs?

    Are you going to refuse to retire his jersey now too?

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    ......so Reggie goes from the reason his teamates were playing so hard last year to the reason they didnt play well together last year?

    I guess the "remember why #31" on JO's shoes meant, "remember why we're losing- it's all because of Reggie."

    ....so Reggie comes out and doesn't pick the Pacers to make the finals, and all of a sudden he's a cancer and the REASON the Pacers didn't fare better in the playoffs?

    Are you going to refuse to retire his jersey now too?
    Do you mind?

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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    I blame Canada.
    Especially those damned Quebecois.

  17. #67
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by able
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    Peck, I have not said Reggie was not a good teammate, not once, don't put words in my text that weren't there to begin with please

    I didn't even mean to imply such, but was more looking at a "chilled" atmosphere as you can have in a situation where there is "unease" in the air, which prevents a far better "gelling".


    A situation where someone has to deal with the top brass of the firm he works for while being used to the guys on the workfloor.
    I never said you said that. Read the post right below yours though.

    As to the "chilled" atmosphere I will still ask, do you think that Reggie caused this chill or is it possible that some of the other players had a chill because they couldn't trust thier team mates?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Did the PAcers go anywhere this year as a training camp other than Conseco? The only reason I ask is one reason the Colts keep going out of town to hold their camp is because they want no distractions from family and give the team a chance to bond. Get your personal gripes out of the way so they're not there when the season starts. I was told one of the biggest threats to team chemistry was the spouse/partner. Little seeds are planted and pretty soon someone is convinced they are true. Back to my original question when was the last time this team went somewhere for camp? I know it was Orlando but can't remember when.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    ......so Reggie goes from the reason his teamates were playing so hard last year to the reason they didnt play well together last year?

    I guess the "remember why #31" on JO's shoes meant, "remember why we're losing- it's all because of Reggie."

    ....so Reggie comes out and doesn't pick the Pacers to make the finals, and all of a sudden he's a cancer and the REASON the Pacers didn't fare better in the playoffs?

    Are you going to refuse to retire his jersey now too?
    I do believe for this team to ever reach its potential Reggie had to be gone or take a backseat. And since it was obvious he wasn't going to take a backseat, and no one in the organization would ever consider such a thing, I think we are in the best shape to truly analyze this team than we've been in a long while.

    That's not calling Reggie a cancer... it might be more like calling him "training wheels" or even a bit of an anchor.

    This season the training wheels are off.... and the excuses are used up.

    PLAY BALL!!!!

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  20. #70
    teY dennaB toN
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by btowncolt
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    I blame Canada.

    I believe Canada has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions...

  21. #71

    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    I'm not sure which is the less obvious statement: the Pacers still have to prove they can beat the Pistons or that we have chemistry issues.

    Until we get at least into the finals those questions are always going to be there.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli
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    I believe Canada has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions...
    Maybe Spicoli, but they did follow that up with Loverboy. They had us fooled for awhile with Rush and Triumph.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    Maybe Spicoli, but they did follow that up with Loverboy. They had us fooled for awhile with Rush and Triumph.
    What about such greats as Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne?

    As for the Quebecois comment, I agree...although these days it's fun to blame the Liberals for everything. Go Gomery Report!

    As for Reggie's comments - I agreed with everything he said about the Pistons being the better team right now. The Pacers actually have to prove something before we label them ahead of a team that made back-to-back finals appearances.

    When he said that JJ was one of the few that actually listened to him, I took that as nothing but a joke.

  24. #74
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    What about such greats as Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne?

    Are you continuing the joke?

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Reggie's comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    ......so Reggie goes from the reason his teamates were playing so hard last year to the reason they didnt play well together last year?

    I guess the "remember why #31" on JO's shoes meant, "remember why we're losing- it's all because of Reggie."

    ....so Reggie comes out and doesn't pick the Pacers to make the finals, and all of a sudden he's a cancer and the REASON the Pacers didn't fare better in the playoffs?

    Are you going to refuse to retire his jersey now too?

    LOL at the "remember why #31 comment"

    Man o man! people forget so soon! In reggie's 18 year career, have you seen any teammates past and present say one bad thing of him as a teammate. An argument about Reggie the deferrer being a problem for this baskeball team is valid but to call or even allude that Reggie could have been a cancer because of some candid comments he made about this Pacers team is preposterous IMHO. You have to be doing something right if your employer and your customers like you for 18 years.

    This team is a world-beater if they start playing TOGETHER all the time. However I still have my doubts after seeing how easily this team veers away at the slightest distraction - a bad call by the ref, etc.

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