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Thread: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Nothing's worse than writing a long, well-thought-out post, then hitting the wrong button and losing it.

    Here's the short version: unless you're going to run a platoon rotation, why call it the "second unit"? They don't play as a second unit.

    Really, what you have is 10 guys that play together, and the first and second units are interchangable.

    JO and Ron will both play 36mpg this year, which means that they'll be on the floor together for at least half the game.
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    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Nothing's worse than writing a long, well-thought-out post, then hitting the wrong button and losing it.
    Amen to this brother. When it is late and I am tired, I do this all the time...I have one of those MS Explorer mice, so the back and forward buttons are above my left thumb on the mouse, making it VERY easy to do...I had to copy my text to the clipboard one night because I did it 4 or 5 times in a row!


    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Here's the short version: unless you're going to run a platoon rotation, why call it the "second unit"? They don't play as a second unit.

    Really, what you have is 10 guys that play together, and the first and second units are interchangable.

    JO and Ron will both play 36mpg this year, which means that they'll be on the floor together for at least half the game.
    Good nutshell description....



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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    The guys that start if a starter is injured/insane.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    I think "ideally" a second unit brings a change in strengths or skills into the game to alter the flow or change unfavorable matchups. Next to no teams have actual "second units" where there's not a significant dropoff in talent. We MAY have that potential this year.
    Where the starters feature a high scoring, post playing forward in JO and a center in JF that rebounds well but doesn't score, the second unit will have a big bodied post player in DH and a jumping jack jump shooter in JB.
    Going to be a lot of fun to watch this year I think.
    Going to get the 'package' this year.

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    The second unit is each of the starters main backup. You put those five players together and they form the second unit. They may not all play together a the same time but the are still the "second unit".

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    Talking Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Far as I am concerned the people who put so much on being the starters have a huge ego problem. A lot of the ones coming off the bench have more min. And a lot of the time do better that those who start. Yes I believe this year the Pacers could platoon their player and not have any drop off. My feelings and mine alone

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers#1Fan
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    The second unit is each of the starters main backup. You put those five players together and they form the second unit. They may not all play together a the same time but the are still the "second unit".

    That's how I've always defined it.

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    It isn't like a hockey second unit. However, you do want a cohessive unit especially during the regualr season that can relieve the starters that at bare minium don't give up the lead. For instance so that you can have your finishers all rested for the last half of the fourth. We have better than that so it can be more interchangable.
    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    I'm not talking about them as individuals. I understand the concept.

    I'm referring more to threads where our rotation is discussed, and everyone talks about "the second unit" as a group of guys that will play together. The "Ron off the bench" thread is a good example. Everybody's talking about how that will give the second unit a scorer when they're all on the floor together, but the fact is we usually don't play those guys all on their own. We mix them up a few at a time.
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Oh, in that case, I agree with you.

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    I'll approach this from another angle:

    Since most teams play 8 and at most 9 players on a regular basis, even being able to use the term, "The Second Unit" means your team is very, very deep.

    Well, that or you have some strange birth defect that might make you very valuable around Van Nuys, CA ...
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    I'll approach this from another angle:

    Since most teams play 8 and at most 9 players on a regular basis, even being able to use the term, "The Second Unit" means your team is very, very deep.

    Well, that or you have some strange birth defect that might make you very valuable around Van Nuys, CA ...















    lol

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Second unit is just an old school term for the back ups. If you don't like it wait for all us to die and then you can call it what you like.

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by grace
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    If you don't like it wait for all us to die and then you can call it what you like.
    What if I can't wait?
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    What if I can't wait?
    Tough toenails.

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    Edge of Reason GO!!!!!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    it's on

    Young VS Old

    Communists VS Democrocy

    Aliens VS Predators

    G Unit VS Second Unit


    Let the Battle Begin.....

    Ball's in your court Oldie Moldies


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    Wink Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    I'm not talking about them as individuals. I understand the concept.

    I'm referring more to threads where our rotation is discussed, and everyone talks about "the second unit" as a group of guys that will play together. The "Ron off the bench" thread is a good example. Everybody's talking about how that will give the second unit a scorer when they're all on the floor together, but the fact is we usually don't play those guys all on their own. We mix them up a few at a time.
    Given that at the present time our 2nd unit would feature Hulk at center, JB at one forward, Granger at the other, Freddie at the 2 and Saras at the 1, I gotta wonder what the H anyone is smoking that thinks that lineup needs scoring help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Given that at the present time our 2nd unit would feature Hulk at center, JB at one forward, Granger at the other, Freddie at the 2 and Saras at the 1, I gotta wonder what the H anyone is smoking that thinks that lineup needs scoring help!
    Well that's certainly true.
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    I would think Pacerman's Last post would only prove your point... That "Second Unit" should NEVER be on the floor unless there is a difference of 30 in the pts. BECAUSE... If the most experienced player on the court if Bender we have a problem.

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by The Toxic Avenger
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    I would think Pacerman's Last post would only prove your point... That "Second Unit" should NEVER be on the floor unless there is a difference of 30 in the pts. BECAUSE... If the most experienced player on the court if Bender we have a problem.
    If Bender plays this season you may have a problem quite frequently then since he has more experience than all but 4 players on the team - and out of those only JO is guaranteed to play substantial minutes.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    I don't know how Carlisle/Bird uses the concept of "2nd unit"....but I would hope that they are able to figure out a way to take advantage of the depth that this team enjoys and take a page from Popovich's book in playing his players. Popovich recognizes that the road NBA championship is a marathon ( not a sprint ) that starts in November and ends in June and that means limiting players like Duncan, Parker, Manu to 30 to 33 mpg throughout the season...in order to keep them fresh ( but specifically less likely to get injured ) for the playoff run. ( I know that all players can get injured at anytime during the season...but the less time they spend on the court...the less likely they will get injured ).

    Not only do the Pacers have the depth and players to take advantage of it ( by limiting the minutes for players like JONeal or Tinsley ), but they can have a smarter rotation where there is any combination of the Big 3 ( so that we always have 3 solid starting quality scoring options on the floor ) and 2 defensive minded players ( like Feisty / Freddie / Artest / Granger ) on the floor at all times. That way, we have a balenced attack of offense and defense on the floor during 3 quarters of the game. The only time the Big 4 players are on the floor at the same time should be during crunch time during the 4th quarter ( and we need to have the best lineup on the floor ). Although it is always nice to have the best players on the floor at all times.....with the depth that the Pacers have....we have the luxury of still having a very good lineup on the floor that can still be competitive. This also has the benefit of giving the backup players ( like Sarunas, Freddie, Granger, Bender, Harrison ) more playing time throughout the season so that they are more prepared for the playoffs.

    I don't know if it is possible to constantly sub in/out player rotations like that....but the more rested the players are during the regular season....the better the chances they will be Injury-free for the playoffs ( which has been our #1 excuse each and every year over the last 3 seasons ).
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerMan
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    Given that at the present time our 2nd unit would feature Hulk at center, JB at one forward, Granger at the other, Freddie at the 2 and Saras at the 1, I gotta wonder what the H anyone is smoking that thinks that lineup needs scoring help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Please correct me if I am wrong...but the idea of the 1st and 2nd unit does not mean that when the 1st unit is rotated out. It doesn't mean that all 5 players in the 1st unit ( Tinsley/SJax/Artest/JONeal/Foster ) would come out all at once and the 2nd unit ( Sarunas/Freddie/Granger/Bender/Hulk ) rotates in.

    The only time the entire 2nd unit lineup is on the floor should be on the floor is when the game is a blow out. There would never be a situation where all 5 of those players are on the floor at the same time when a game is close. I would think at most...there would/should only be 3 players ( max ) from the 2nd unit on the floor at the same time ( depending on the situation ) with the rest of the Big 4 filling out the lineup.

    I would hope that we have a good mix of players from the 1st and 2nd unit on the floor at the same time:

    Sarunas/Freddie/Artest/JONeal/Hulk
    Tinsley/SJax/Granger/JONeal/Foster
    Sarunas/Sjax/Granger/JONeal/Hulk
    ( the combination of players are endless )

    IMHO...its a matter of balencing out the lineup so that we always have 3 solid scoring options on the floor with 2 defensive minded players.
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
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    Please correct me if I am wrong...but the idea of the 1st and 2nd unit does not mean that when the 1st unit is rotated out. It doesn't mean that all 5 players in the 1st unit ( Tinsley/SJax/Artest/JONeal/Foster ) would come out all at once and the 2nd unit ( Sarunas/Freddie/Granger/Bender/Hulk ) rotates in.
    Well, that depends. A few years ago Sacto used their 2nd unit as a 2nd unit. They didn't rotate all five in at once all the time but they'd all be in at once with the starters out. IIRC, Portland also did that 5-6 years ago.

    IMO you call them the second unit when you plan on using them that way. Otherwise it makes more sense to call them your backups or reserves.

    You only do it when some particular combo of reserves just work great together. It's very different from the concept of interchangeable parts though.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Well, that depends. A few years ago Sacto used their 2nd unit as a 2nd unit. They didn't rotate all five in at once all the time but they'd all be in at once with the starters out. IIRC, Portland also did that 5-6 years ago.

    IMO you call them the second unit when you plan on using them that way. Otherwise it makes more sense to call them your backups or reserves.

    You only do it when some particular combo of reserves just work great together. It's very different from the concept of interchangeable parts though.
    Right, that's what I think as well. But that's not the logic that was coming out of the "Ron off the bench" thread.
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    Default Re: Somebody explain the concept of "second unit"

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick
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    Well, that depends. A few years ago Sacto used their 2nd unit as a 2nd unit. They didn't rotate all five in at once all the time but they'd all be in at once with the starters out. IIRC, Portland also did that 5-6 years ago.

    IMO you call them the second unit when you plan on using them that way. Otherwise it makes more sense to call them your backups or reserves.

    You only do it when some particular combo of reserves just work great together. It's very different from the concept of interchangeable parts though.
    Exactly (IMO). If they don't all play at the same time at least some of the time, you wouldn't call them a 2nd unit.

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