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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

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  • Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

    There is no doubt in my mind that Michael Jordan was the most talented individual to ever play in the NBA, there's no contest. MJ was a superstar, a monster, a hero, a living miracle, a model for how the game should be played.

    I just wanted to establish that before I say this, something which I am aware I have said before.

    This sudden outburst is prompted by the Reggie statue Thread, but I didn't want to hijack that so here goes:


    Without the great teams that surrounded Michael Jordan, he would have never won all his championships, it's a TEAM Sport. No one individual can win games, they can aid, but they can't win over seventy games in a season by themselves. I think that this is very evident in Jordans first 5/6 seasons with the Bulls.

    I will go in a slight compromise and say that with the exception of Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Ron Harper ( at times), none of the others would be of super star caliber or shine as bright without Jordan, but on the other hand MJ wouldn't have shined as bright without them either.

    My point is, and I in no way mean disrespect to Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Jermaine O'Neal, Byron Scott, Chuck Person, or any others, but if Reggie was on the bulls those years, he would have had a championship.
    Life without water is tough, life without air is hard,life with one leg only is wobbly, Life without Reggie Miller, is impossible.

    Do Not Trade Austin

    Originally posted by Conrad Brunner
    Veteran Austin Croshere, the longest-tenured Pacers player on the roster, has proven reliable when called upon, invariably ready to step in regardless of the circumstance.

  • #2
    Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

    a championship MAYBE, but not 6. I don't even think he would, because neither Reggie nor Pippen are fit for the role of top dog.

    Reggie isn't in Jordan's class. It's unfair to both players to compare them.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

      Originally posted by Kstat
      a championship MAYBE, but not 6. I don't even think he would, because neither Reggie nor Pippen are fit for the role of top dog.

      Reggie isn't in Jordan's class. It's unfair to both players to compare them.

      If Reggie had one more player who was aggressive on offense while playing defense, Pacers would have 2-3 championships in the runs made. (this along with Rik Smits). We had Mckey in the early runs who played defense but no offense. We had Jalen who played offense but no defense. (he was never a team guy, forget defense).

      Jalen + Mckey = Artest (without running into the stands)

      MJ would not win those championships without all those players but Reggie would not win with all those players.

      Reggie and the Pacers were an unique combination because players like Reggie succeed only on conventional basketball teams (point guard, SG, SF,PF and Center) which count on the team concept. Reggie would not have that much success with teams like the Bulls.

      In those Chicago teams, there was no true point guard, no legitmate center. Just an athletic team which rebounded and played defense to go along with MJ's will and talent.
      ANDY: I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy winning or get busy losing.

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      • #4
        Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

        Originally posted by 8.9_seconds
        My point is, and I in no way mean disrespect to Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Jermaine O'Neal, Byron Scott, Chuck Person, or any others, but if Reggie was on the bulls those years, he would have had a championship.
        Nope. No way. Wouldn't have happened. Pippen and Rodman were huge for the Bulls, but then we had McKey and the Davis' doing the same thing. Jordan won because, IMHO, he altered his game from a ballhogging hotdog to a team player. Once he did that, the titles started coming. Jordan NEVER had a great team. He had two great co-horts. Thing is, Jordan was a LEADER. He chewed out his teammates as much as the coaches ever did. They talk about that cliche, will to win, but it held true in his case.

        (I hate to say it, but Kobe showed the same thing against us in the finals. You just say he wasn't going to allow them to lose. He took those late three pointers from waaayy behind the arc and nailed them, followed up by drives where he dared us to stop him...and we couldn't.)

        The trio of Rodman/Pippen and jordan worked because Jordan was able to do as he wanted in the offense, Pippen directed things and Rodman pretty much just had to stay out of the way and grab missed shots.

        I'm confident Reggie's basically one dimensional game wouldn't have fit the Bulls. Jordan didn't need screen to get his shot and his defense was tops in the league, let alone he was able to penetrate, all things Reggie didn't do to the point of being one of the best in the league at it.
        Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

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        • #5
          Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

          Well, the bulls were so dynamic because Jordan and Pippen were hall of famers on BOTH ends of the floor. They could win games any way they wanted to. That's where reggie loses out in this discussion, I think. You don't leave reggie on another all-pro SG and not worry about it for the rest of the game.

          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

            IMO, the only player you can argue that with would be Len Bias, since all the Boston fans say he would have been MJ's nemesis if he'd lived, and since he didn't, there's no way to disprove it.

            Phil Jackson wouldn't have known the first thing to do with Reggie.
            Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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            • #7
              Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

              Originally posted by Kegboy
              IMO, the only player you can argue that with would be Len Bias, since all the Boston fans say he would have been MJ's nemesis if he'd lived
              Who was he, and why did he die?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                He was the #2 overall pick in 1986, and he died of a coke overdose that night.

                It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                  Originally posted by Kstat
                  He was the #2 overall pick in 1986, and he died of a coke overdose that night.
                  That was the year I was born, no wonder I don't remember him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                    I'm sorry but if you switch Reggie and Jordan the Bulls win no titles and the Pacers win multiple titles. Without Jordan those Bulls teams were mediocre.
                    "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                    "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                      I'm not even sure Pippen would be regarded as highly if it wasn't for the fact he shared the court with Jordan for much of his career. Jordan made the players around him better. He also had this ability to bring his "A" game nearly every time he took the court. That is something that cannot be said about Reggie.

                      Also... Jordan was able to do much more than score and when his shot wasn't falling he could take up the slack elsewhere. Again, not a forte of Reggie.

                      All that said... there's a lot of hype that goes into Jordan's legacy but for those that would say he and Reggie were equals or interchangable... that's over the top.

                      -Bball
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                        I am not aware of anyone who is indicating Reggie and Jordan are near equals?

                        Only observation I would make is the longer Jordan is away from the game
                        the greater his "Legend Grows"

                        Yet Reggie has not even been retired a full offseason and people already have him as a mediocre shooting guard with no defense.. funny how that works sometimes.... oh well

                        Why Not Us ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                          Jordan was the greatest defensive SG of all time. Putting almost ANYONE in Jordan's class would make them look mediocre in comparison.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                            Originally posted by Frank Slade
                            I am not aware of anyone who is indicating Reggie and Jordan are near equals?

                            Only observation I would make is the longer Jordan is away from the game
                            the greater his "Legend Grows"

                            Yet Reggie has not even been retired a full offseason and people already have him as a mediocre shooting guard with no defense.. funny how that works sometimes.... oh well
                            8.9 started this discussion saying put Reggie on the Bulls teams and he would've had a championship. I assumed that meant 'swapping' Reggie and Jordan and not Reggie playing on the same team as Jordan.

                            -Bball
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Taking off the Shades and taking a real look at MJ

                              Originally posted by Kstat
                              Jordan was the greatest defensive SG of all time. Putting almost ANYONE in Jordan's class would make them look mediocre in comparison.
                              No question there as long as people have the proper perspective of things. There is no need to down play Reggie's accomplishments to prove anything.

                              If Jordan is the GOAT , then his accomplishments should stand alone.

                              Why Not Us ?

                              Comment

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