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Thread: Job Experience

  1. #1
    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Default Job Experience

    I just got booted from my secretarial temp position. I'd applied for the permanent position and didn't even get an *interview* because I didn't have enough experience. Heck, my resume didn't even get to my supervisor because Human Resources weeded it out for lack of experience.

    They wanted someone with a high school diploma/GED and two years secretarial experience. They specifically stated "an equivalent combination of related education and experience will be considered." I have a bachelor's degree (in psychology) and one year experience. And yet I was weeded out.

    Nevermind the fact that I'm doing the job well as we speak. Nevermind the fact that all the people I work for are satisfied with my performance (according to my supervisor). Nevermind the fact that one of the people I'm working for actually came down to my office on Friday to try to convince me to put in an application for this position because he and several other people were happy with my work. Nevermind that I told everyone that asked, including my supervisor, that I had applied for this position and wanted it.

    I have a friggin' bachelor's degree and can't work as a secretary. Does that seem right to you?

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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    What ? not at all.
    Is this a case of someone else is already "hand picked" for the spot.?
    Otherwise this does not make any sense at all. Especially not even to do an interview.

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    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade
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    What ? not at all.
    Is this a case of someone else is already "hand picked" for the spot.?
    Otherwise this does not make any sense at all. Especially not even to do an interview.
    As far as I can tell, no. This position has been open for over three months. There were two temps here before me. I have a hard time believing the position would've been open so long if they had someone in mind for it all along.

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    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
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    As far as I can tell, no. This position has been open for over three months. There were two temps here before me. I have a hard time believing the position would've been open so long if they had someone in mind for it all along.
    Right that would not make sense. It seems like there is more to this than meets than eye. Perhaps a good "word" from your Supervisor , or the other people you work for to HR may enlighten them to reconsider?

    Otherwise it seems someone is clueless as who cares about another year of outside experience when you have direct experience doing the exact job they are trying to fill. Not to mention the man hours they lose training someone new ...

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    Member McClintic Sphere's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    Wait, so you got booted from the temp position because you applied for the permanent position????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
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    I have a friggin' bachelor's degree and can't work as a secretary. Does that seem right to you?
    Well, a couple of things. First, it may be something other than your work experience or educational background. And secondly, if I was your prospective employer, the fact that you have a bachelor's degree would be an indication to me that you probably won't be satisfied doing secretarial work for too long. I would think you're either doing it until you find something better or you're settling.

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    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    I've seen this happen before. My thought is that they already had someone in mind for the job, but encouraged you to apply so that it "looked good".

    Let's also not overlook that you just might not be the right sex (yeah, even for a secretarial job), color (yep of course it still happens), age, religion, or even marital status to keep their numbers even. Are you overweight? Do you have any medical problems they might be aware of?

    And just as likely is the fact that you have a Bachelor's degree. They may assume you're overqualified. They may assume you won't be happy in a year and will move on. I have observed this happening on several occasions. Candidate A is obviously more qualified, but they try to match the intelligence of the position to that of the candidate, so they go with the less intelligent and less capable candidate B. It does happen.

    I am certain I have gotten the majority of the positions I've had because I either knew someone or whoever did the hiring just clicked with me, or both. Aim a little higher and get your friends involved.
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

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    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade
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    Right that would not make sense. It seems like there is more to this than meets than eye. Perhaps a good "word" from your Supervisor , or the other people you work for to HR may enlighten them to reconsider?

    Otherwise it seems someone is clueless as who cares about another year of outside experience when you have direct experience doing the exact job they are trying to fill. Not to mention the man hours they lose training someone new ...
    I appreciate your sympathy. I don't think there's any point in trying to get my supervisor to reconsider. Another person's already been hired. That's another crappy part of this. Even though I expressed interest in the position, and enquired a few times, no one told me that they'd even progressed to interviews. I was just told out of the blue today that they'd hired someone.

    So no matter what I say, or someone says on my behalf, it won't change the fact that someone else is getting this job.

  9. #9
    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McClintic Sphere
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    Wait, so you got booted from the temp position because you applied for the permanent position????
    No, no. My temp position is ending because they've hired someone for the permanent position. I'm bothered more by the fact that I didn't get an interview (or was even informed that interviews were occurring). I wasn't even given a fair chance at getting the permanent position.

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    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Well, a couple of things. First, it may be something other than your work experience or educational background. And secondly, if I was your prospective employer, the fact that you have a bachelor's degree would be an indication to me that you probably won't be satisfied doing secretarial work for too long. I would think you're either doing it until you find something better or you're settling.
    I can't really speculate on the first point. If there's something in there that turned them off, I don't have a clue what it would be. As for your second point, I think that's something to be addressed by an interview. Rather than assume I'm settling or looking for something better, why not ask? The fact is, I wanted this job so I could go back to school part-time. I would get tuition reimbursement and a flexible schedule. And I would be here until I graduate, at least two and a half years from now. But I wasn't even given the opportunity to explain that.

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    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knucklehead Warrior
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    I've seen this happen before. My thought is that they already had someone in mind for the job, but encouraged you to apply so that it "looked good".

    Let's also not overlook that you just might not be the right sex (yeah, even for a secretarial job), color (yep of course it still happens), age, religion, or even marital status to keep their numbers even. Are you overweight? Do you have any medical problems they might be aware of?

    And just as likely is the fact that you have a Bachelor's degree. They may assume you're overqualified. They may assume you won't be happy in a year and will move on. I have observed this happening on several occasions. Candidate A is obviously more qualified, but they try to match the intelligence of the position to that of the candidate, so they go with the less intelligent and less capable candidate B. It does happen.

    I am certain I have gotten the majority of the positions I've had because I either knew someone or whoever did the hiring just clicked with me, or both. Aim a little higher and get your friends involved.
    I'll be meeting my replacement this afternoon. I'm willing to bet it'll be a white woman. She may or may not be married, and she'll probably be older, but I doubt she's filling a quota of some sort. I'm not overweight and I don't have any medical problems that would hurt my candidacy either.

    I *really* hate the idea that it might be my bachelor's degree that hurt me here. I have a perfectly legitimate reason for wanting this position, overqualified or not. And quite frankly, a bachelor's degree in psychology doesn't exactly *qualify* me for much either. *begins muttering obscenities*

    Frankly, I'm not looking to aim a little higher, because I want to go back to school. I don't want something that stresses me out and/or requires work outside normal business hours. As far as getting friends involved, I don't have any friends in any position to help.

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    Default Re: Job Experience

    I know exactly how you feel. I have been looking for a job for since I graduated with my BA in may and so far have gotten nothing. Like you I have also applied for secretarial jobs, and other jobs that don't require a bachelors degree. I get really frustrated because I put a lot of hard work into my BA and it could be the reason I am still looking. Since when was it right to penalize someone for getting a education?

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    My wife has a BS in Physics. Her student loans are already high so she doesn't want to take on any more to further advance her degree. There is absolutely zero chance of her getting a job in her field with only a BS. In order to do research, you need a PhD in Physics, not just a BS. In order for her to teach Physics at the University level she would need a Master's, and even then a PhD helps. She could get a teacher's certificate and teach at the High School level since she minored in Education. But a first year's teacher salary doesn't exactly pay off the student loans now does it? Her advisor made it seem like she'd have no trouble landing a job. She didn't find out until after she graduated that her advisor had assumed she would be getting more than a BS. She applied for a job at the Fermi National Laboratory in Chicago. It's basically a huge lab that does a lot of things realated to Physics and research. She was told that the only job she was qualified for there was a particle accelerator operator, and you can train a monkey to do that. That job also has a weird shift, like factory work, because the accelerator runs 24/7. She basically had to "settle" for a lab technician's job at a local lab, and really she even had trouble landing that. They kept telling her that her degree wasn't exactly what they were looking for. She finally had to literally beg the HR manager there to give her a shot. And even then the manager told her that in six months they would "re-evaluate" the situation and see if it's working out. Her six month date is rapidly approaching and she has literally worked like a slave in that time. She's done eveything they have asked, taken every training course they've thrown at her, and worked more overtime than should be allowed by law. The HR manager won't talk to her about her situation, which leads me to believe that they are going to take this opportunity to can her. In her case, unfortunately, getting her degree has served only her sense of pride and accomplishment, and not much else.

    Everything she has gone through makes me thankful for my job. I didn't go to college, and I had to work in some crappy, low-paying positions to gain the experience necessary to get my job. It took me a while (7 years), but I'm where I want to be, I have no student loans, have good job security, and good potential to move up over the course of my career.

    It's strange how it's worked out for both of us. If you were to examine our situations from the outside, you would come to the conclusion that she has the better job, and is the main breadwinner. I've seen wnough situations like ours to know though that it's not at all uncommon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
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    I just got booted from my secretarial temp position. I'd applied for the permanent position and didn't even get an *interview* because I didn't have enough experience. Heck, my resume didn't even get to my supervisor because Human Resources weeded it out for lack of experience.

    They wanted someone with a high school diploma/GED and two years secretarial experience. They specifically stated "an equivalent combination of related education and experience will be considered." I have a bachelor's degree (in psychology) and one year experience. And yet I was weeded out.

    Nevermind the fact that I'm doing the job well as we speak. Nevermind the fact that all the people I work for are satisfied with my performance (according to my supervisor). Nevermind the fact that one of the people I'm working for actually came down to my office on Friday to try to convince me to put in an application for this position because he and several other people were happy with my work. Nevermind that I told everyone that asked, including my supervisor, that I had applied for this position and wanted it.

    I have a friggin' bachelor's degree and can't work as a secretary. Does that seem right to you?
    I just saw this. That is a load of bullshi!t. Total bull****. **** them.

    That's unbelievable.

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    Anyway, I wish you the best finding work with more deserving people than those *******s.

  16. #16
    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Cox
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    Anyway, I wish you the best finding work with more deserving people than those *******s.
    Thanks, Mark.

    I'm just trying to comfort myself by telling myself that I wouldn't want to work for such a ***** of a supervisor and that this leaves the door open for finding work that's more interesting (since this job would never be more than a paycheck). But this throws a serious monkey wrench in my educational plans for the moment. I do have three months to figure something else out, though.

  17. #17
    Harmonica
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kat
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    Thanks, Mark.

    I'm just trying to comfort myself by telling myself that I wouldn't want to work for such a ***** of a supervisor and that this leaves the door open for finding work that's more interesting (since this job would never be more than a paycheck). But this throws a serious monkey wrench in my educational plans for the moment. I do have three months to figure something else out, though.
    I think that about says it all right there. Perhaps your employer sensed this as well. In the end though, only your supervisor really knows why you didn't get the opportunity to interview for that position. I'd ask him/her in a very diplomatic manner why you weren't considered. That question tends to catch most people off guard and put them on their heels, but you may learn something about yourself if they're honest. Or you may find that it had nothing to do with you at all. Regardless, try not to let it get you down too much.

  18. #18
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Ah this reminds me of that degree thread I started this summer.

    Kat, I hope things work out. I understand whole heartedly about the feeling the need for retribution for all the hard work that goes into a BS. Lately I've started to learn the importance of connections, I believe it is how anyone gets anywhere.

    I'm still working on my degree in public relations, in the meantime I picked up a job in radio sales/production. Not because I needed it, as a matter of fact I am losing a substantial amount of money doing it, but I needed the experience.

    I hope my degree works out, but it seems like everyday I prepare myself that my work at college is in vain. I guess its just a "life isn't fair" problem, and pure uninhibited luck will control who comes out ahead.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    I'm still working on my degree in public relations, in the meantime I picked up a job in radio sales/production. Not because I needed it, as a matter of fact I am losing a substantial amount of money doing it, but I needed the experience.
    Good for you, man. That's the right attitude. That'll look good on your resumé and it shows initiative. Plus you'll make some connections. Next stop, Pacers internship in media relations.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by travmil
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    My wife has a BS in Physics. Her student loans are already high so she doesn't want to take on any more to further advance her degree. There is absolutely zero chance of her getting a job in her field with only a BS. In order to do research, you need a PhD in Physics, not just a BS. In order for her to teach Physics at the University level she would need a Master's, and even then a PhD helps. She could get a teacher's certificate and teach at the High School level since she minored in Education. But a first year's teacher salary doesn't exactly pay off the student loans now does it? Her advisor made it seem like she'd have no trouble landing a job. She didn't find out until after she graduated that her advisor had assumed she would be getting more than a BS. She applied for a job at the Fermi National Laboratory in Chicago. It's basically a huge lab that does a lot of things realated to Physics and research. She was told that the only job she was qualified for there was a particle accelerator operator, and you can train a monkey to do that. That job also has a weird shift, like factory work, because the accelerator runs 24/7. She basically had to "settle" for a lab technician's job at a local lab, and really she even had trouble landing that. They kept telling her that her degree wasn't exactly what they were looking for. She finally had to literally beg the HR manager there to give her a shot. And even then the manager told her that in six months they would "re-evaluate" the situation and see if it's working out. Her six month date is rapidly approaching and she has literally worked like a slave in that time. She's done eveything they have asked, taken every training course they've thrown at her, and worked more overtime than should be allowed by law. The HR manager won't talk to her about her situation, which leads me to believe that they are going to take this opportunity to can her. In her case, unfortunately, getting her degree has served only her sense of pride and accomplishment, and not much else.

    Everything she has gone through makes me thankful for my job. I didn't go to college, and I had to work in some crappy, low-paying positions to gain the experience necessary to get my job. It took me a while (7 years), but I'm where I want to be, I have no student loans, have good job security, and good potential to move up over the course of my career.

    It's strange how it's worked out for both of us. If you were to examine our situations from the outside, you would come to the conclusion that she has the better job, and is the main breadwinner. I've seen wnough situations like ours to know though that it's not at all uncommon.
    Trav,

    Since your wife would teach in an area of high demand, science, she would probably be eligible for forgiveness on at least part of her loans. If she couples the high need catagory with teaching in a low income school, the chances go up even more. I had part of my loan balance eliminated this way. It just depends on the loan. Of course, if she goes back to school the loan payments can be deferred until she finishes.

    Kat,

    Sorry about your job situation. I'm sure you'll find something better.

  21. #21
    Member Knucklehead Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    I hope my degree works out, but it seems like everyday I prepare myself that my work at college is in vain. I guess its just a "life isn't fair" problem, and pure uninhibited luck will control who comes out ahead.
    Doggonit. I wish this wasn't true, but my experience proves otherwise. It's not just luck though. What we're seeing here is that a college degree doesn't automatically get you anything except opening some doors. There is still more to it. I am utterly convinced that who you know and what you can get them to do for you is just as important as what you know.

    My last 4 jobs I got because I made myself visible to the people making the employment decision and to their bosses, essential to their work, and a profit center for their operations. I made it easy to choose me and difficult to explain if they didn't.

    I have seen incompetent morons be just as successful in the same area of work as people who were geniuses. Some had very good people skills -- schmoozers. Most bosses have biases it seems. There's a lot of politics in working for corporate america. Those who understand this and can make it work for them can do better even than those who have high academic skills.

    Get past that frustration and make things work FOR YOU. I could do it for some of the time, but eventually it's one of the reasons I just said the hell with it and retired. There are just too many places to work where initiative and brains are bad words and fluff is more rewarded than substance.

    Thanks, I feel much better now.
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  22. #22
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmonica
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    Good for you, man. That's the right attitude. That'll look good on your resumé and it shows initiative. Plus you'll make some connections. Next stop, Pacers internship in media relations.
    Yeah, I took your advice to heart. This will definitely help me in the future.

    But until further notice I'm blaming you for my financial difficulties.
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  23. #23
    Member Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Job Experience

    I finally figured out exactly why Human Resources weeded me out. Although many job postings state "an equivalent combination of "related" education and experience will be considered," this is not exactly the case. Experience can be substituted for education, but education cannot be substituted for experience. From their HR website:

    "To be considered a qualified applicant for a position that includes the equivalent statement, you must hold the necessary experience related to the position.

    Example #1:

    Position Title: Project Manager

    Position Requirements: Bachelor’s degree and 2 years of project management experience required.

    * An Associate's degree and 4 years of project management experience.
    * A High School Diploma / GED and 6 years of project management experience."

    So... experience is held in greater esteem than education. Which I can't necessarily disagree with, in principle. But this is a university. Ain't it very hypocritical for them to take such a stance? Gee, Purdue University, I'm sorry that I attended your institution in favor of working these last few years. I guess I'll start filling out entry-level grocery clerk applications now.... *sigh*

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SycamoreKen
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    Since your wife would teach in an area of high demand, science, she would probably be eligible for forgiveness on at least part of her loans. If she couples the high need catagory with teaching in a low income school, the chances go up even more. I had part of my loan balance eliminated this way. It just depends on the loan.
    Who pays for that?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Yeah, I took your advice to heart. This will definitely help me in the future.

    But until further notice I'm blaming you for my financial difficulties.
    You wanna swap debt? You're doing what I've always done—invest in yourself. Trust me, you're gonna feel awful damn good about yourself for having made the sacrifice and coming out on the other side. The rewards are all the more satisfying. Just remember it's not necessarily a one-time thing.

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