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Thread: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

  1. #1
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Okay, not really. We were discussing in another thread, amongst other things, a secret wish of mine that we trade JO for Garnett, adding players to make it work.

    I started a separate thread cause I don't want to alter the gist of the thread/post the discussion came from.

    Okay, here's a scenario for you:

    :timberwolMinn, following the debacles of Sprewell and Cassell, The Wolves decide to reload, opting to build around another Supastar, who's contract is more cost friendly and in the process, pick up some talent other than the marginal players littering their roster to date. Setting themselves a window of 2-3 years player growth for a the team to gel for a title.

    Realizing they may finally have secured an impact player at SG in the draft with Rashad McCants, a young, dynamic PG in Jaric, and a solid SF in Sczerbiak, they make an offer to the Pacers.


    :thepacers Indiana, realizing that their unusual depth may be useful in securing the rights to one of the top 2-3 players in the entire league, look the offer over. Common thinking within the organization is that Bender is healthy (Bear with me, folks! ), Artest is a changed man, Croshere is a solid contributor and the Cabbage is the real deal. Looking over the depth chart, they come to realize that maybe addition by subtraction may be to their benefit. sacrificing a bit for the greater good.

    (okay, I did a very quick scenario on RealGM based upon what I felt would be realistic and that would work financially. Two scenarios popped up. The most realistic, INHO, is the first one.)

    Minnesota Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Incoming
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Danny Granger
    6-8 from New Mexico
    No games yet played in 2004/05
    David Harrison
    7-0 C from Colorado
    6.1 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.7 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +8.2 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and -3.5 apg.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Danny Granger
    6-8 from New Mexico
    No games yet played in 2004/05
    David Harrison
    7-0 C from Colorado
    6.1 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.7 minutes
    Incoming
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -8.2 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and +3.5 apg.


    In this scenario, the appeal for Minn is the youth and potential of Hulk and Danny. For us, it's getting a top 3 player, while still having the depth to fill our roster. For us,

    PG Tinlsey/Cabbage
    SG Jackson/Freddie
    SF Artest/Croshere
    PF Garnett/Bender
    C Foster/Pollard

    With available roster spots for a couple of C/PFs

    Scenario two:

    Minnesota Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Incoming
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Jamaal Tinsley
    6-3 PG from Iowa State
    15.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.4 apg in 32.5 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +17.5 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Jamaal Tinsley
    6-3 PG from Iowa State
    15.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.4 apg in 32.5 minutes
    Incoming
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -17.5 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -2.6 apg.


    Although this is much cleaner, I don't think Minn would find it as appealling.



    So, I'm curious. How many of you would do this trade?

    (Now I'm basing this on the fact that I don't think JO is the guy to take us to a title. I mentioned as much at the forum get together. Not a popular sentiment, I know. Since this is my little fantasy, I was curious, if this were to happen, what you guys would think.)
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  2. #2
    Member jcouts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    Okay, not really. We were discussing in another thread, amongst other things, a secret wish of mine that we trade JO for Garnett, adding players to make it work.

    I started a separate thread cause I don't want to alter the gist of the thread/post the discussion came from.

    Okay, here's a scenario for you:

    :timberwolMinn, following the debacles of Sprewell and Cassell, The Wolves decide to reload, opting to build around another Supastar, who's contract is more cost friendly and in the process, pick up some talent other than the marginal players littering their roster to date. Setting themselves a window of 2-3 years player growth for a the team to gel for a title.

    Realizing they may finally have secured an impact player at SG in the draft with Rashad McCants, a young, dynamic PG in Jaric, and a solid SF in Sczerbiak, they make an offer to the Pacers.


    :thepacers Indiana, realizing that their unusual depth may be useful in securing the rights to one of the top 2-3 players in the entire league, look the offer over. Common thinking within the organization is that Bender is healthy (Bear with me, folks! ), Artest is a changed man, Croshere is a solid contributor and the Cabbage is the real deal. Looking over the depth chart, they come to realize that maybe addition by subtraction may be to their benefit. sacrificing a bit for the greater good.

    (okay, I did a very quick scenario on RealGM based upon what I felt would be realistic and that would work financially. Two scenarios popped up. The most realistic, INHO, is the first one.)

    Minnesota Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Incoming
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Danny Granger
    6-8 from New Mexico
    No games yet played in 2004/05
    David Harrison
    7-0 C from Colorado
    6.1 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.7 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +8.2 ppg, -1.6 rpg, and -3.5 apg.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Danny Granger
    6-8 from New Mexico
    No games yet played in 2004/05
    David Harrison
    7-0 C from Colorado
    6.1 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.7 minutes
    Incoming
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -8.2 ppg, +1.6 rpg, and +3.5 apg.


    In this scenario, the appeal for Minn is the youth and potential of Hulk and Danny. For us, it's getting a top 3 player, while still having the depth to fill our roster. For us,

    PG Tinlsey/Cabbage
    SG Jackson/Freddie
    SF Artest/Croshere
    PF Garnett/Bender
    C Foster/Pollard

    With available roster spots for a couple of C/PFs

    Scenario two:

    Minnesota Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Incoming
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Jamaal Tinsley
    6-3 PG from Iowa State
    15.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.4 apg in 32.5 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +17.5 ppg, -0.7 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing
    Jermaine O'Neal
    6-11 PF from Eau Claire HS (SC)
    24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 34.8 minutes
    Jamaal Tinsley
    6-3 PG from Iowa State
    15.4 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.4 apg in 32.5 minutes
    Incoming
    Kevin Garnett
    6-11 PF from Farragut Academy HS (IL)
    22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 38.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -17.5 ppg, +0.7 rpg, and -2.6 apg.


    Although this is much cleaner, I don't think Minn would find it as appealling.



    So, I'm curious. How many of you would do this trade?

    (Now I'm basing this on the fact that I don't think JO is the guy to take us to a title. I mentioned as much at the forum get together. Not a popular sentiment, I know. Since this is my little fantasy, I was curious, if this were to happen, what you guys would think.)
    Kevin Garnett is a great player, but he's not worth JO, Granger and Hulk. he's not even worth JO and Granger for this Pacers team.
    Sometimes a player's greatest challenge is coming to grips with his role on the team. -- Scottie Pippen

  3. #3
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I don't think I'd trade Granger, DH and J.O.

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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    What we would need to give up financially for him. Would not be worth it
    I know Garnett can put up the stats like very few.. but the intagibles like leadership which is a dire need for this team. i don't think he has. IMO

    Maybe I am wrong, but that's the impression I get.

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  5. #5
    woman without a team
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    I don't think I'd trade Granger, DH and J.O.
    I wouldn't either.

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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Two years ago I would do the JO and Tins easily. Neither at this point knowing KG at the moment is in the back half of his prime. He becomes 30 in less than a year.
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  7. #7
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Slade
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    What we would need to give up financially for him. Would not be worth it
    I know Garnett can put up the stats like very few.. but the intagibles like leadership which is a dire need for this team. i don't think he has. IMO

    Maybe I am wrong, but that's the impression I get.
    See, I think the exact opposite. I think Garnett is a leader, but he keeps getting crap to work with. I think Garnett has helped revolutionize the position and has the no back down mindset we need.
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  8. #8
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    KG is a very strong leader, perhaps too strong. He can be a little tough on his teammates. But then again Jordan was also.

    The key is to get the right players around him,

  9. #9
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Garnett can stay in Minny...Let's see what our guys can do this year before we break out the C-4 and blow it all up for yet another unknown....

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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Threads like this make me angry. I don't like misleading opinion threads. How about, 'Hey guys, I think we should do this trade!'. If you make a stupid title like this, and someone like me, who actually comes here for information reads it and wastes his time clicking on it and seeing total garbage and crap, then I'm going to say something about it.

  11. #11
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    That would be an absolutely great trade for the Pacers, a top 10 player and 2 "rolls of the dice" for a top 3 player.

    Let's review: KG is a better shooter, better rebounder, probably a better defender, tougher, more mature, more versatile, more unstoppable, less injury prone...

    am I missing something else?

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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    No thanks. While I would love to see Garnett in a Pacer uniform I am not giving up Jamaal for him. Not am I giving up J.O. PLUS Granger and Harrison.

    Counting on Bender to be healthy is just not a good idea even in a fantasy game.

    If you could trade J.O. and Johnson I would do the deal in a heart beat. (even thought I just got that J.O. Retro.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I'd do them both...

    maybe the first only after lots of alcohol, but, its a trade that you have to consider...

  15. #15
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I believe JO straight up works so you could try that first and slowly sweeten the pot from there...

    I don't know that you'd have to include Granger and Harrison at all and I might be hesitant to do both. I certainly wouldn't make that my first offer on the table.

    Also, I believe due to the size of JO's contract and KG's contract that the Pacers could even do a trade like this and do a bit of a salary dump in the process depending on players involved. I could be wrong about that... I haven't crunched the numbers.

    I already believe Tinsley is on the outside looking in so I doubt there'd be much hesitation from the TPTB (on the Pacers' side) to do the JO/JT for KG trade.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I'm all for trading JO. I'm with Skaut and Bball on this one...I've just never believed that he is the guy who can lead us to a championship. Garnett is one of the best players this league has ever seen. Hell yeah I'd look into something!

  17. #17
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Skaut Ech,
    I always usually respect your viewpoints and agree with them often. On this one... Well this is an age old question on this website, KG for JO and some other change thrown in for stocking stuffers. My thing is, we're Pacers fans, and to a point I don't like trading marquee players. KG is a Timberwolf, he'll have his number retired a T-wolf, and more than likely given the number of years he's played there, he'll be remembered a T-wolf. I don't think I would enjoy it as much having won the thing with him as opposed to winning it with JO. JO, while not drafted a Pacer, has grown up a Pacer. He's someone I take pride in.
    Beyond that, I think KG isn't a very good leader. Argue as you may, he's not had a terrible cast around him, yet still rarely manages to get out of the 1st round. I mean, the guys around may be some head cases, but still they're decent respectable players. From Marbury, to Terrell Brandon, to Wally to Spree et al, he's not done much with his pieces. I'm not sure he's the great leader that I would go after that hard. I'm not saying he's bad, I think he's a great player, but I think we have a relatively comparable player here already in JO.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    First, this would never happen, I don't care if we included JO + and the rest of this roster.

    Second, I'd be a little wary giving up a lot for KG. He is shot once his athleticism is gone (a la DROB), and is near-30 already.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  19. #19
    Member Pacers#1Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I am SOOOOOOOO tired of hearing this stupid fing trade. It is never going to happen AND SHOULDN'T!!! LET IT GO!

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Dart
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    Threads like this make me angry. I don't like misleading opinion threads. How about, 'Hey guys, I think we should do this trade!'. If you make a stupid title like this, and someone like me, who actually comes here for information reads it and wastes his time clicking on it and seeing total garbage and crap, then I'm going to say something about it.
    I agree, misleading thread titles make me angry.
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  21. #21
    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    As far as it being a misleading thread, give the guy a break. All you have to do is scroll the thread title to get a synopsis of the first few lines. I don't think he did it to make anyone intentionally angry.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by indiana31
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    As far as it being a misleading thread, give the guy a break. All you have to do is scroll the thread title to get a synopsis of the first few lines. I don't think he did it to make anyone intentionally angry.
    Yeah, but I'm talking about the title of the thread, not whats in it. The title says, "Kevin Garnett is a Pacer". Like it really happened. It had me a little excited because it sounded like big news, and at this time of the year, any kind of big news NBA-wise is scarce.

    I'm not mad, no. So, don't think that. I just hate being teased.......
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  23. #23
    Member Pacers#1Fan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I think my new sig. (courtesy of Mark Boyle) says it all.

  24. #24
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacers#1Fan
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    I think my new sig. (courtesy of Mark Boyle) says it all.
    2 things:

    1. I've seen Skaut. I don't think you want to mess with him.....
    2. I'm sure he has connections with the Connersville PD. Don't be surprised to notice an increased police presence in your life........

  25. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kevin Garnett is a Pacer

    I read what Mark B posted on trade rumors, and in general I agree with him, 99% of trade rumors that are thought up in this forum are a waste of time.

    However in this case I think this is a little different, this is more of a discussion on the relative merits of J.O and KG and just what we would be willing to give up to get KG.

    Oh and Scott H is a great poster and he rarely posts trade rumors

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