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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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A confederate flag??

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  • A confederate flag??

    In this day and age, why does anyone fly the confederate flag? And in Indiana??

    I was working yesterday on the southside and this house had a HUGE confederate flag covering most of their garage door. Personally, it's one of the few things that immediately makes me quick to anger. When you grow up in Indiana and have to deal with different forms of racism on a weekly basis, seeing something like that makes me wish I was single again so I could date his daughter as the ultimate revenge.

    I just don't get this confederate flag thing. For me, it represents evil and ignorance. Nothing more.
    Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

  • #2
    Re: A confederate flag??

    Oh and here's a good letter I read:

    This letter is in response to a recent letter that said people opposed to the Confederate flag on private property wanted to have it both ways. People like the letter writer who support and salute the Confederate flag also want it both ways.

    They enjoy the luxuries and freedoms that soldiers and former soldiers like myself fought for. Yet, they have the nerve to salute and honor another flag, while our men and women are being killed and shot at every day because of the flag they proudly wear on their shoulder.

    In my eyes, honoring a flag of an enemy the United States went to war against is a slap in the face to those soldiers fighting today.

    After spending time in Central America, I realized very quickly that people from other countries dislike us not because we are from the North or South, but because we represent the United States of America.

    I guess the letter writer would be OK with someone from Germany flying a giant swastika off Interstate 65 because his great-grandfather died in World War II fighting for Hitler. After all, that would be part of his heritage, too.

    What is the deal with flying the confederate flag? I don't get it.
    Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A confederate flag??

      It's a South-Pride thing for people living, or originally from, that region. Beyond that I think it's simply what hicks (lowercase ) think makes them look/feel cool. Then there are racists, but I'd say that's 3rd to the others.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A confederate flag??

        I wonder if the guy who wrote that letter would have an issue with me flying a big Brittish Flag off my front porch? American soldiers died fighting that enemy. Twice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A confederate flag??

          Interesting, I had an email discussion about this yesterday with a friend of mine who lives in Mississippi. I told her that regardless of what the confederate flag means to southerners, by and large it's regarded as the biggest symbol of slavery in the US. I also brought up the fact that the swastika was originally a symbol of good luck, but after the Nazis used it, people don't associate it with luck anymore. Southern pride or not, I don't think it has any reason to be displayed anywhere than in a museum. And people in IN who have a confederate flag, whether it's on their vehicle, a T-shirt, or their house, are very unlikely to just be supporting pride for the south.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A confederate flag??

            Has anyone noticed that none of the promotional materials for the new Dukes of Hazzard movie show the top of the car? The flag is painted big-and-bold on the top of the General Lee, but they won't show it in commercials.

            This movie alone is going to bring a resurgence of this symbol, like it or not.

            The problem here is that the symbol is interpreted differently by different people. To many young, southern white men it means nothing more than "I'm a rebel and an outlaw! I'm a bad-***! I'm proud of my home region! Yeeeehawwwwwww!!!!"

            To others it means: "I'm an ignorant racist bigot! Yeeeehawwwwwww!!!!"

            I like the swastika comparison, but we need to remember that the swastika was a symbol of peace and luck that was re-appropriated to be a symbol of hate and genocide. The confederate flag has taken the opposite path: It started as a symbol of hate and slavery, but through time, ignorace and denial has been slowly distilled to mean nothing more than "I'm from the south!" to many of the folks that fly it.
            “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

            “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A confederate flag??

              Thought some folks would find this interesting:

              http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106116

              Chrysler Shuns Marketing Deal With Dukes of Hazzard Movie
              Date Posted 06-17-2005

              CHELSEA, Mich. — The Chrysler Group will not tie in any marketing of its 2006 Dodge Charger with the upcoming movie, The Dukes of Hazzard, because it is afraid the display of the Confederate flag on the movie's vintage Charger will offend some viewers.

              The movie, scheduled to open August 5, is based on the TV series that ran from 1979 to 1985 and featured "good old boy" cousins eluding authorities in The General Lee, a 1969 orange Dodge Charger with a Confederate flag on the roof. The movie stars Jessica Simpson, Burt Reynolds and Willie Nelson.

              "They gave us the treatment for the movie and talked about a marketing deal, but we said we can't participate if you keep the Confederate flag," Jason Vines, Chrysler Group vice president of communications, told Inside Line. "It's offensive to a lot of people. But they [Warner Bros.] said 'no.' We still get a mention of the Charger in the movie, but we couldn't do anything beyond that."

              The Confederate battle flag, also called the Southern Cross, has been at the center of controversy for years. It has been described as a proud emblem of Southern heritage and as a shameful reminder of slavery and segregation. The Southern Poverty Law Center says more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.

              What this means to you: The General Lee rides again, but Chrysler doesn't want anything to do with it.
              “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

              “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A confederate flag??

                The North had slavery, too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A confederate flag??

                  Originally posted by Stryder
                  The North had slavery, too.
                  That's it? That's your big contribution?

                  Yeah, the north had slavery, too, but came to see it as wrong. There is a reason the underground railroad took slaves from the south to the north.

                  The abolitionist movement started in the north, prompted the emacipation proclaimation, prompting the south's defeat in the civil war, in part because the south wanted to keep slaves and the north came to see it as wrong.

                  Aw, come on, this is grade school US history 101. You had to know this already.

                  "The north had slavery, too."? You gotta do better than that. Really now.
                  Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A confederate flag??

                    Originally posted by Stryder
                    The North had slavery, too.
                    What does that have to do with the modern day use of this symbol and how it is viewed by the public at large?
                    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A confederate flag??

                      Okay, someone here flies the Confederate flag. I just know it. I'm not being judgemental. Honest. I really want to know. Why fly it?

                      Let me give you guys a little of my perspective and why this interests me and has always struck a bit of a cord to me.

                      You know how people talk about their ancestors glowingly?

                      "My great-great-great Grandfather came over from Italy"

                      "I'm part Indian on my mother's side and my great-great-great aunt was Irish"

                      Well, When I was very, very young, a family member showed me a picture of a woman who was my ancestor. It was a really brown, beat-up photo. The woman had these huge manacles on, covering her wrists all the way up her forearm. She was my ancestor.

                      She was a slave.

                      Now, flash forward to Junior High school history class.

                      I found out something that blew me away. What was really mind boggling is that almost exactly 100 years from the day I was born, the Emancipation Proclaimation was signed. Only 100 years from the day of my birth and the freeing of the slaves. Thats' not a whole lot of time. Only 100 years?

                      So, for me, the confederate flag came to symbolize the woman in that picture. Not a great association.

                      That's why I asked about why anyone would fly the "southern cross". I'm curious. It easy to say it's just southern pride when you don't have a photo of an ancestor like mine.
                      Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A confederate flag??

                        There are some very good points made here.

                        I myself believe that there are some people that fly it because they want to 'represent' the south, even if they aren't from the south, or seem like a rebel, or outlaw, like LA pointed out. The problem with that to me, is that that group of people probably doesn't really look into the true meaning of that flag from it's origin, and they may not have racial implications from flying it, but since they aren't bothering to look further, it will appear that way to an impartial viewer.

                        But unfortunately, there are also people who fly that flag for the wrong reasons, and it's mind boggling to me why some people would want to 'represent', or display their choice of bigotry, if they're flying it for racial overtones of their belief.

                        I guess I just don't see anything about that flag that says, "hey, I'm from the south, and proud of my heritage", it may not be intended by the owner, but you can't deny the hate, and bigotry behind the flag itself, and that's not the person who chose to fly the flag's fault, that mindset was created by events that happened way before our time.

                        But at the same time, it doesn't take much thought to be sensitive to how the flag itself makes some people feel, and it's just a matter of respect to not force it down anyone's throat, surely there are other ways to show that a person is proud of their southern heritage.

                        I guess you could kind of group this into a situation of, 'one bad apple ruins it for the rest of the bunch', and there may legitimately be people who fly that flag only because of their southern roots, but the others that choose hatred as their reason to display it, takes away from the others intent, and makes it appear insensitive to everyone.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A confederate flag??

                          Before college, I lived on the southeast side of Indy. Roncalli was about four minutes away. The Rebels have a lot of students from my township. There's a lot of Confederate flags flying. Some relatives I have fly them, too.

                          And absolutely, a lot of these people that I've met are absolutely racist -- some of my same relatives, included.

                          Let us not forget the bumper stickers, as well.

                          I've never got it. I fly a Purdue flag. Eh.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A confederate flag??

                            I am really hesitiant to post on this topic.

                            Let me say that I would never fly a confederate flag. I also think that flying it in Indiana (a state that I believe sent the most Union soldiers into the South and whose largest tie to the South is at one time having a strong Klan membership) is silly.

                            However, my family faught on the losing side and I do have Southern Pride, believe that there are things culturally I have gain which make me a better person and feel that the South is mischaracterized by popular culture.

                            The Confederate flag is not how I choose to express that pride, however.
                            "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                            "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A confederate flag??

                              I agree that it is hard to post on this topic, but I feel like I should state my opinion.

                              My wife and I are both white and we remark to each other all the time about how much we detest the Confederate flag. In our minds, it brings back memories of an America that almost tore itself apart, mostly over slavery.

                              Recognizing and respecting one's heritage is important, but not as important as the common good. The easy question to ask would involve being able to celebrate one's heritage if it were from nazi germany, or involved wearing a KKK hood, or some other offensive-to-most group....Would it be okay then, even if it offended the majority of people?

                              I feel like if I were of African descent, I would be DEEPLY offended by the flying of the Confederate flag as a way to celebrate the former southern way of life. How are we to know if someone is just being a 'rebel' (don't get me started on this subject) or being a racist? It sends such an unclear message....Heck, I'm NOT of African descent and it offends me.

                              I honestly wonder how people who fly the Confederate flag would feel if THEIR descendants were slaves or were killed simply for the color of their skin. I have a feeling that they wouldn't have a problem getting up in someone's face for 'celebrating' that mode of thinking or that way of life.

                              Bottom line, it is so obvious that the Confederacy was WRONG and that slavery was the darkest period of America's history, displaying remnants of that era is not a good thing. I personally wish it were outlawed because, frankly, it sometimes makes me embarassed to be white.

                              Feel free to cut my opinion to pieces now; I will take it like a man......

                              P.S. As far as the swastika goes, I always thought that the 'good luck' version was simulating a clockwise motion and the Nazi's changed it to counter-clockwise....I could be wrong....



                              RESIDENT COUNTING THREAD PHILOSOPHIZER

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