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Thread: A confederate flag??

  1. #1
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default A confederate flag??

    In this day and age, why does anyone fly the confederate flag? And in Indiana??

    I was working yesterday on the southside and this house had a HUGE confederate flag covering most of their garage door. Personally, it's one of the few things that immediately makes me quick to anger. When you grow up in Indiana and have to deal with different forms of racism on a weekly basis, seeing something like that makes me wish I was single again so I could date his daughter as the ultimate revenge.

    I just don't get this confederate flag thing. For me, it represents evil and ignorance. Nothing more.
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  2. #2
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Oh and here's a good letter I read:

    This letter is in response to a recent letter that said people opposed to the Confederate flag on private property wanted to have it both ways. People like the letter writer who support and salute the Confederate flag also want it both ways.

    They enjoy the luxuries and freedoms that soldiers and former soldiers like myself fought for. Yet, they have the nerve to salute and honor another flag, while our men and women are being killed and shot at every day because of the flag they proudly wear on their shoulder.

    In my eyes, honoring a flag of an enemy the United States went to war against is a slap in the face to those soldiers fighting today.

    After spending time in Central America, I realized very quickly that people from other countries dislike us not because we are from the North or South, but because we represent the United States of America.

    I guess the letter writer would be OK with someone from Germany flying a giant swastika off Interstate 65 because his great-grandfather died in World War II fighting for Hitler. After all, that would be part of his heritage, too.

    What is the deal with flying the confederate flag? I don't get it.
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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    It's a South-Pride thing for people living, or originally from, that region. Beyond that I think it's simply what hicks (lowercase ) think makes them look/feel cool. Then there are racists, but I'd say that's 3rd to the others.

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    I wonder if the guy who wrote that letter would have an issue with me flying a big Brittish Flag off my front porch? American soldiers died fighting that enemy. Twice.

  5. #5
    Zesty
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Interesting, I had an email discussion about this yesterday with a friend of mine who lives in Mississippi. I told her that regardless of what the confederate flag means to southerners, by and large it's regarded as the biggest symbol of slavery in the US. I also brought up the fact that the swastika was originally a symbol of good luck, but after the Nazis used it, people don't associate it with luck anymore. Southern pride or not, I don't think it has any reason to be displayed anywhere than in a museum. And people in IN who have a confederate flag, whether it's on their vehicle, a T-shirt, or their house, are very unlikely to just be supporting pride for the south.

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Has anyone noticed that none of the promotional materials for the new Dukes of Hazzard movie show the top of the car? The flag is painted big-and-bold on the top of the General Lee, but they won't show it in commercials.

    This movie alone is going to bring a resurgence of this symbol, like it or not.

    The problem here is that the symbol is interpreted differently by different people. To many young, southern white men it means nothing more than "I'm a rebel and an outlaw! I'm a bad-***! I'm proud of my home region! Yeeeehawwwwwww!!!!"

    To others it means: "I'm an ignorant racist bigot! Yeeeehawwwwwww!!!!"

    I like the swastika comparison, but we need to remember that the swastika was a symbol of peace and luck that was re-appropriated to be a symbol of hate and genocide. The confederate flag has taken the opposite path: It started as a symbol of hate and slavery, but through time, ignorace and denial has been slowly distilled to mean nothing more than "I'm from the south!" to many of the folks that fly it.

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Thought some folks would find this interesting:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=106116

    Chrysler Shuns Marketing Deal With Dukes of Hazzard Movie
    Date Posted 06-17-2005

    CHELSEA, Mich. — The Chrysler Group will not tie in any marketing of its 2006 Dodge Charger with the upcoming movie, The Dukes of Hazzard, because it is afraid the display of the Confederate flag on the movie's vintage Charger will offend some viewers.

    The movie, scheduled to open August 5, is based on the TV series that ran from 1979 to 1985 and featured "good old boy" cousins eluding authorities in The General Lee, a 1969 orange Dodge Charger with a Confederate flag on the roof. The movie stars Jessica Simpson, Burt Reynolds and Willie Nelson.

    "They gave us the treatment for the movie and talked about a marketing deal, but we said we can't participate if you keep the Confederate flag," Jason Vines, Chrysler Group vice president of communications, told Inside Line. "It's offensive to a lot of people. But they [Warner Bros.] said 'no.' We still get a mention of the Charger in the movie, but we couldn't do anything beyond that."

    The Confederate battle flag, also called the Southern Cross, has been at the center of controversy for years. It has been described as a proud emblem of Southern heritage and as a shameful reminder of slavery and segregation. The Southern Poverty Law Center says more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.

    What this means to you: The General Lee rides again, but Chrysler doesn't want anything to do with it.

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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    The North had slavery, too.

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    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder
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    The North had slavery, too.
    That's it? That's your big contribution?

    Yeah, the north had slavery, too, but came to see it as wrong. There is a reason the underground railroad took slaves from the south to the north.

    The abolitionist movement started in the north, prompted the emacipation proclaimation, prompting the south's defeat in the civil war, in part because the south wanted to keep slaves and the north came to see it as wrong.

    Aw, come on, this is grade school US history 101. You had to know this already.

    "The north had slavery, too."? You gotta do better than that. Really now.
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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder
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    The North had slavery, too.
    What does that have to do with the modern day use of this symbol and how it is viewed by the public at large?

  11. #11
    Well lubricated Skaut_Ech's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Okay, someone here flies the Confederate flag. I just know it. I'm not being judgemental. Honest. I really want to know. Why fly it?

    Let me give you guys a little of my perspective and why this interests me and has always struck a bit of a cord to me.

    You know how people talk about their ancestors glowingly?

    "My great-great-great Grandfather came over from Italy"

    "I'm part Indian on my mother's side and my great-great-great aunt was Irish"

    Well, When I was very, very young, a family member showed me a picture of a woman who was my ancestor. It was a really brown, beat-up photo. The woman had these huge manacles on, covering her wrists all the way up her forearm. She was my ancestor.

    She was a slave.

    Now, flash forward to Junior High school history class.

    I found out something that blew me away. What was really mind boggling is that almost exactly 100 years from the day I was born, the Emancipation Proclaimation was signed. Only 100 years from the day of my birth and the freeing of the slaves. Thats' not a whole lot of time. Only 100 years?

    So, for me, the confederate flag came to symbolize the woman in that picture. Not a great association.

    That's why I asked about why anyone would fly the "southern cross". I'm curious. It easy to say it's just southern pride when you don't have a photo of an ancestor like mine.
    Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    There are some very good points made here.

    I myself believe that there are some people that fly it because they want to 'represent' the south, even if they aren't from the south, or seem like a rebel, or outlaw, like LA pointed out. The problem with that to me, is that that group of people probably doesn't really look into the true meaning of that flag from it's origin, and they may not have racial implications from flying it, but since they aren't bothering to look further, it will appear that way to an impartial viewer.

    But unfortunately, there are also people who fly that flag for the wrong reasons, and it's mind boggling to me why some people would want to 'represent', or display their choice of bigotry, if they're flying it for racial overtones of their belief.

    I guess I just don't see anything about that flag that says, "hey, I'm from the south, and proud of my heritage", it may not be intended by the owner, but you can't deny the hate, and bigotry behind the flag itself, and that's not the person who chose to fly the flag's fault, that mindset was created by events that happened way before our time.

    But at the same time, it doesn't take much thought to be sensitive to how the flag itself makes some people feel, and it's just a matter of respect to not force it down anyone's throat, surely there are other ways to show that a person is proud of their southern heritage.

    I guess you could kind of group this into a situation of, 'one bad apple ruins it for the rest of the bunch', and there may legitimately be people who fly that flag only because of their southern roots, but the others that choose hatred as their reason to display it, takes away from the others intent, and makes it appear insensitive to everyone.

  13. #13

    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Before college, I lived on the southeast side of Indy. Roncalli was about four minutes away. The Rebels have a lot of students from my township. There's a lot of Confederate flags flying. Some relatives I have fly them, too.

    And absolutely, a lot of these people that I've met are absolutely racist -- some of my same relatives, included.

    Let us not forget the bumper stickers, as well.

    I've never got it. I fly a Purdue flag. Eh.

  14. #14

    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    I am really hesitiant to post on this topic.

    Let me say that I would never fly a confederate flag. I also think that flying it in Indiana (a state that I believe sent the most Union soldiers into the South and whose largest tie to the South is at one time having a strong Klan membership) is silly.

    However, my family faught on the losing side and I do have Southern Pride, believe that there are things culturally I have gain which make me a better person and feel that the South is mischaracterized by popular culture.

    The Confederate flag is not how I choose to express that pride, however.

  15. #15
    Huge Member heywoode's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    I agree that it is hard to post on this topic, but I feel like I should state my opinion.

    My wife and I are both white and we remark to each other all the time about how much we detest the Confederate flag. In our minds, it brings back memories of an America that almost tore itself apart, mostly over slavery.

    Recognizing and respecting one's heritage is important, but not as important as the common good. The easy question to ask would involve being able to celebrate one's heritage if it were from nazi germany, or involved wearing a KKK hood, or some other offensive-to-most group....Would it be okay then, even if it offended the majority of people?

    I feel like if I were of African descent, I would be DEEPLY offended by the flying of the Confederate flag as a way to celebrate the former southern way of life. How are we to know if someone is just being a 'rebel' (don't get me started on this subject) or being a racist? It sends such an unclear message....Heck, I'm NOT of African descent and it offends me.

    I honestly wonder how people who fly the Confederate flag would feel if THEIR descendants were slaves or were killed simply for the color of their skin. I have a feeling that they wouldn't have a problem getting up in someone's face for 'celebrating' that mode of thinking or that way of life.

    Bottom line, it is so obvious that the Confederacy was WRONG and that slavery was the darkest period of America's history, displaying remnants of that era is not a good thing. I personally wish it were outlawed because, frankly, it sometimes makes me embarassed to be white.

    Feel free to cut my opinion to pieces now; I will take it like a man......

    P.S. As far as the swastika goes, I always thought that the 'good luck' version was simulating a clockwise motion and the Nazi's changed it to counter-clockwise....I could be wrong....



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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Zesty
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    ...I also brought up the fact that the swastika was originally a symbol of good luck, but after the Nazis used it, people don't associate it with luck anymore...


    Two different swastika orientations and meanings...

    The right handed or clockwise Swastika was originally used in the Hindu religion as a sign of good luck or to symbolize something good. It then crept into other religions of the area (Buddhism, etc.). The Hindu faith has also used the left handed or counterclockwise Swastika to mean the oppositie of the right handed one for ages (way before the Nazis got their hands on it and *******ized it for years to come.)

    So, yes, most people associate the right handed symbol with good and the left handed one with bad.

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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    That's it? That's your big contribution?

    Yeah, the north had slavery, too, but came to see it as wrong. There is a reason the underground railroad took slaves from the south to the north.

    The abolitionist movement started in the north, prompted the emacipation proclaimation, prompting the south's defeat in the civil war, in part because the south wanted to keep slaves and the north came to see it as wrong.

    Aw, come on, this is grade school US history 101. You had to know this already.

    "The north had slavery, too."? You gotta do better than that. Really now.

    Touch a nerve, eh?

    I just don't like to let the North off to easily. It seems so many people today think that the North was a land of pure innocence and no slavery.

  18. #18
    Zesty
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder
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    Two different swastika orientations and meanings...

    The right handed or clockwise Swastika was originally used in the Hindu religion as a sign of good luck or to symbolize something good. It then crept into other religions of the area (Buddhism, etc.). The Hindu faith has also used the left handed or counterclockwise Swastika to mean the oppositie of the right handed one for ages (way before the Nazis got their hands on it and *******ized it for years to come.)

    So, yes, most people associate the right handed symbol with good and the left handed one with bad.
    You learn something everyday.

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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    By the way, I don't like the use of the confederate flag, but then again, I don't really care, because it's just a flag, and cannot do any harm.

    The sentiment (that might be there or might not) behind the flag and what some people use it to stand for is what I care about.

  20. #20
    sweabs
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder
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    ...the Civil War was not fought over slavery.
    Say what?!

  21. #21
    sweabs
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    I don't agree with those who publically display the Confederate flag (or privately for that matter). To me, it has the same effect as someone saying: "I want things to go back to the way they were then..." - which is obviously troublesome. It is as if they are clinging onto the past - unable to let go and face the fact that times have changed.

    However, I do think that the flag belongs in museums, and cannot be forgotten. We cannot just erase the past; instead we must remember times/events like these, so people will never forget and rather learn from such mistakes to prevent similar mishaps from occuring again in the future.

    The ironic part about my last sentence however, is that many are using it as a way to represent the old Confederate ideals/morales, and carry on these traditions (instead of using it to put an end to such values).

  22. #22
    sweabs
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Last post, I promise

    But I had to say, this is the funniest thing I've read on here for a while!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech
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    ...seeing something like that makes me wish I was single again so I could date his daughter as the ultimate revenge.

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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Say what?!
    Sorry, I mistyped. That should never have been in my response.

    But, I do believe the Civil War had more to do with the Confederacy believing in state's rights than it did with slavery. I might be stupid...who knows? Haha.

  24. #24
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarey
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    Say what?!
    Let me preface by saying I do not fly a Confederate flag. I had realtives chased from their homes in North Carolina because as Quakers they were Abolishionist.

    The War Between the States was fought over States rights vs. the right of the Federal govenment to dictate certain courses of action to the States. IOW A confederation of States or a Country run by a central government. The most obvious and emotional of the "issues" was the slave arguement. I have read where "the South" had already started moving toward abolishment of slavery but not quick enough for the Fed. Gov...but I cannot lay my hands on that info therefore, forget I said it.

    Now this is strictly my opinion, but since I'm not black I cannot speak from that POV. To me the Confed. flag is not a symbol of hatred or racism, it is a symbol of a losing cause.
    I RECENTLY SAW THE SYMBOL OF HATRED AND RACISM flying outside a home in a poor section of Greenfield. True it had the Stars and Bars in the background, but that was overshadowed by the greyish circle in the center with squiggle lines within the circle. Also within this circle were the letters KKK diagonally. And above the circle were the words WHITE POWER.
    This was the flag of racism and hate...a prostituted version of the Confederate flag and it was within 6 blocks of my Church, a Church also hated by the KKK.

    Sidenote...1 week later as I passed thru this area again I saw a fellow come out of that house carrying come shairs...Obiviously pissed, he slammed them into the back of his pick-up along with the rest of his furniture. The next day I noticed a FOR RENT sign on the house.
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    Default Re: A confederate flag??

    Quote Originally Posted by indygeezer
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    ..The War Between the States was fought over States rights vs. the right of the Federal govenment to dictate certain courses of action to the States. IOW A confederation of States or a Country run by a central government. The most obvious and emotional of the "issues" was the slave arguement. I have read where "the South" had already started moving toward abolishment of slavery but not quick enough for the Fed. Gov...but I cannot lay my hands on that info therefore, forget I said it...

    Boom Baby!

    Yes, I do believe the south had taken a step in the right direction on their own, albeit a very small one, but very significant...

    The Confederate Constitution protected the institution of slavery, but prohibited slave trade internationally.

    As I said, a small step, but significant.

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