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Thread: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

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    Default Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Deadline moved up in concession to players

    By Marc Stein

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2120414

    In a concession to the NBA Players' Association, the deadline for the "amnesty" clause, which will allow teams a one-time exception to waive a player without paying further luxury tax on the player's contract, has been moved up to Aug. 15.

    Teams such as the Dallas Mavericks and New York Knicks, who are expected to use the clause -- also known as the Allan Houston Rule -- to waive Michael Finley and Houston to avoid paying future luxury tax on their contracts, will have less than two weeks to make their decision once the labor deal is implemented Tuesday at noon ET.

    The original deadline was Oct. 1.

    The Mavericks are trying to trade Finley to keep him out of the Western Conference and to avoid losing him without compensation. If they end up waiving him, a string of playoff contenders, including the Phoenix Suns, San Antonio Spurs, Detroit Pistons, Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets, Chicago Bulls and Miami Heat, are expected to pursue Finley.

    The union argued that an Oct. 1 deadline gave the teams releasing players too much control over their players' futures. The Aug. 15 deadline is early enough to give Finley, Houston and anyone else released via the clause a chance to compete for free-agent dollars long before training camps open Oct. 3.

    Other amnesty candidates include the Los Angeles Lakers' Brian Grant, the Portland Trail Blazers' Derek Anderson and the Indiana Pacers' Austin Croshere.

    Because of the Knicks' interest, the amnesty clause has become known known as the Allan Houston Rule. It is expected to be a one-time option that teams will not be able to save if they don't use it this year.

    Teams get luxury-cap relief, but not salary-cap relief for the released players, who must be on a team's 2005-06 roster but have been acquired before June 21.

    Teams, such as the Toronto Raptors, who bought out Alonzo Mourning for $11 million, also can get relief for players no longer on the roster but whose salary remains on the payroll.

    Players cannot be re-signed by the teams that released them for the length of the terminated contract. Teams remain responsible for paying the players, even if the players sign elsewhere.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Looks like all major player movement will be wrapped up within 3 weeks. Good news.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    While I'm glad to have things accelerated, I wonder how the teams feel about this? The league has a nasty habit of pulling the rug out from the owners in regards to decisions like these.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    2/3 of the teams probably feel pretty good. Nobody wants to wait until early autumn to finalize their roster going into next season.

    Im sure Dallas would like another month to work a deal, but tough luck for them. I'm getting sick of waiting.

    This also gives Croshere an additional 2 months to find a new home.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    So, if we cut Cro, we have a roster of:

    C - Foster/Harrison/Pollard
    PF - O'Neal/Bender
    SF - Artest/Granger
    SG - Jackson/Jones
    PG - Tinsley/Jasekevicius/Johnson/Gill

    We really need to make a move for a PF, or move Jeff to the back-up 4 and get a starting center (Dale?).

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    2/3 of the teams probably feel pretty good. Nobody wants to wait until early autumn to finalize their roster going into next season.

    Im sure Dallas would like another month to work a deal, but tough luck for them. I'm getting sick of waiting.

    This also gives Croshere an additional 2 months to find a new home.
    How about Croshere in Motown?

    Mmm...Crotown...

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade 20X6
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    How about Croshere in Motown?

    Mmm...Crotown...
    He'd be even further down on our bench than he was on yours.

    If Joe D has his eye on any Pacer, it's James Jones.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    He'd be even further down on our bench than he was on yours.

    If Joe D has his eye on any Pacer, it's James Jones.

    I know that NBA players love money, so let's say that both Indy & Detroit offer JJ a contract

    if the Pistons offer was slightly better than Indy's, say 2.5 M$ vs. 3M$,
    do you think that JJ would pick the Pistons overs the Pacers?

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu
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    I know that NBA players love money, so let's say that both Indy & Detroit offer JJ a contract

    if the Pistons offer was slightly better than Indy's, say 2.5 M$ vs. 3M$,
    do you think that JJ would pick the Pistons overs the Pacers?

    I think JJ would pick a 2nd string role over a DNP-CD role, yes. Right now, playing time is what matters to him. On the Pistons, he'd definately have a role. On the Pacers, he would be at the mercy of Granger's health/effectiveness.

    Again, I have no idea if JJ is even on Joe's radar. But it would make sense for Joe to make a play for him. He's exactly the kind of player joe likes.

    I'm sure JJ likes the Pacers, but I'm also sure that he liked playing an important role on a playoff team just as much.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Whether we could afford it or not, Donnie would match rather than let JJ go to the Pistons.
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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem
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    Whether we could afford it or not, Donnie would match rather than let JJ go to the Pistons.
    I'm sorta leaning that way too, however the question is would the simons allow it.

    Also, that's a pretty big amount of cash to choke on, paying $6 million just to keep your 3rd string SF from going to a rival, and watch him get mop-up duty off your bench.

    I'm sure Donnie would gladly pay Shaq-type money to keep the pistons from improving, but Donnie doesn't pay the bills.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade 20X6
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    So, if we cut Cro, we have a roster of:

    C - Foster/Harrison/Pollard
    PF - O'Neal/Bender
    SF - Artest/Granger
    SG - Jackson/Jones
    PG - Tinsley/Jasekevicius/Johnson/Gill

    We really need to make a move for a PF, or move Jeff to the back-up 4 and get a starting center (Dale?).
    I've heard this suggestion about Foster quite a lot, but I just don't see it. I mean, can you really imagine, say, Foster and Harrison or Foster and Pollard out there together for any length of time? Or Dale and Foster? I think this is why we heard the suggestion floated earlier that Artest would spend some time at the 2. If Saras pans out or if Jones has a big year, we could have the most talent on the court with O'Neal, Artest, Jackson, Saras, and Tinsley.

    This would be a really, really good time for Bender to start making a contribution. He doesn't need to be a mini-Garnet to help us out a lot. If he can fill in for JO as many minutes as possible without flaming out, that would be huge for us.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'm sorta leaning that way too, however the question is would the simons allow it.

    Also, that's a pretty big amount of cash to choke on, paying $6 million just to keep your 3rd string SF from going to a rival, and watch him get mop-up duty off your bench.

    I'm sure Donnie would gladly pay Shaq-type money to keep the pistons from improving, but Donnie doesn't pay the bills.
    im pretty certain the luxury tax is assessed on ur season ending roster....therefore if someone like detroit tried to sign jj away, ud probably see a matched offer....then they could always trade him away at any time during the season....ideally to a team under the cap for a draft choice or as part of a trade to a team under the cap where the dollars going out are substantially larger than the dollars coming in....

    this is also why i wonder if croshere will indeed be cut via amnesty.....around the trade deadline there might be someone that might be willing to bite as he would only have a little over a year left on his contract at that point...

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Well, nobody is going to take Pollard's contract for a draft choice.

    Holding on to Croshere past the amnesty deadline would be a ridiculous gamble just for whatever conditional 2nd rounder you might get for him. That would be reckless. I'd certainly rather clear his salary off the tax threshhold now, rather than take a risk that isnt likely to pay big dividends.

    To the one writing the checks, that's a $9.8 million penalty should you be unable to unload Croshere by the February.

    Bender and AJ could both have some trade value, but any other contracts you take with you into the season are going to be on your team at the end of it.

    Of course, that is assuming that you don't deal a roatation player like Tinsley or Foster in order to intice another team to take Pollard.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    typically the pacers havent made many moves during the season....their preference has always been to make the moves in the offseason....but with all that has gone on, this season might be a bit different....there are so many questions we simply dont know the answers to right now....

    what will benders health situation be?

    how will granger develop?

    how will harrison develop?

    just how good will saras be?

    how will the overall health of the team be??

    will we have some significant injuries/suspensions just as we did last year??

    now while i do expect some roster moves before the season, im not sure how drastic they might be....may be more of consolidation than anything else, but who knows for sure....

    however, given the pacers history...and given the situation, i wouldnt be surprised if they didnt cut croshere or anyone, and held out till they had a fair amount of the season to see how some of these question marks pan out....then they would be in a much better position to make some of these decisions....the last thing u want is to have all these assets and get rid of them, only to need them down the road, or wish u wouldnt have done something....

    that also may be the thinking with dale....maybe theyre not sure if they really need him as badly as some of us might think....maybe they would prefer to see how the season goes and then tweak the team, based on need, near the deadline....

    croshere doesnt appear to have much value...especially with two years left....but if a team suffers an injury he might be a tolerable solution, especially if package with another asset that would be enticing to that team....knowing they would only have a year left....paying austin 9 mllion to play substantial minutes is not the craziest thing in the world...if ur borrowing him for a stretch run....that team could potentially use him only the last part of the season and then trade him to a team looking for cap relief in the offseason, thereby not costing the team much, overall, especially if they have a need....im not a croshere fan, but he is a 6'10" playoff tested veteran....he cant get many minutes on our team, but another team that is trying to make the playoffs that suffers an injury, who knows...

    it should be interesting....cool part is we wont have to wait very long to find out now...which in of itself may affect the decision some....

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Your point being, that the Simons are perfectly ok with paying $100 million for this season, and they don't really care about the luxury tax at all?

    Because, if you actually re-sign Dale and JJ, rennounce NOBODY, and are unable to trade anybody at the deadline, you're looking at an $80+ million payroll, plus a $20+ million luxury tax hit, which will equal out to an excess of $100 million.

    So, do you really think the Sinons are looking at Croshere and Saying, "that's an asset I'm willing to pay $19 million for this seson?" Because, if you keep him past 8/14, and cant find a trade partner, that's what he's going to cost you.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    Your point being, that the Simons are perfectly ok with paying $100 million for this season, and they don't really care about the luxury tax at all?

    Because, if you actually re-sign Dale and JJ, rennounce NOBODY, and are unable to trade anybody at the deadline, you're looking at an $80+ million payroll, plus a $20+ million luxury tax hit, which will equal out to an excess of $100 million.

    So, do you really think the Sinons are looking at Croshere and Saying, "that's an asset I'm willing to pay $19 million for this seson?" Because, if you keep him past 8/14, and cant find a trade partner, that's what he's going to cost you.
    no....not what im saying....

    what im saying is the management may make the decision that they would like to see how the season plays out before they make some moves....

    they also know that the market will change between now and then....from a financial standpoint croshere will not be quite as bad in february as he is this offseason....he wouldve been paid 6 more months....plus if any team has a need for someone like him, they probably wont have quite as many options as they do now....who knows for sure....

    the pacers have enuff assets if they want to make a deal, that wont be impossible...and they very well could feel like they would prefer to wait...especially when u throw in the possibility that miami or another competitior might very well try to snatch him up....

    who knows...we will know soon enuff....

    jo could suffer a season ending injury and crosheres value to the team would drastically change....and as i stated, i could see this possibly affecting dales situation....

    bottom line is this....with the amount of assets they have, theyre not in a situation like most other teams....its not make or break....they could literally bribe someone to take croshere off their hands around the trade deadline....and for a team to take croshere around the deadline isnt the biggest stretch in the world...that team would only be months away from croshere being a tradeable asset....

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    jo could suffer a season ending injury and crosheres value to the team would drastically change....and as i stated, i could see this possibly affecting dales situation....
    If JO suffers a season ending injury (and that's one hell of a jinx you just put on there), Having Croshere on hand make any difference whatsoever.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    If JO suffers a season ending injury (and that's one hell of a jinx you just put on there), Having Croshere on hand make any difference whatsoever.

    sorry, i dont subscribe to any theory that has something that u or i type on a message board affecting an upcoming season...

    and yes, having croshere would make a difference...im not a fan, but bottom line is he is a capable contributor...on a lot of teams...he would go to miami and contribute immediately, and significantly....the problem is two fold here....one-u dont pay a backup pf 9 million a year, no matter who u are...secondly, the pacers have so much talent, he cant see the floor without something happening to a couple of people...

    however, a team making a playoff run, who would happen to lose a power forward, would most likely love to have him....considering they would only be on the hook for his remaining salary for that year and the year remaining...and considering he would become quite tradeable his last year to anyone seeking cap relief , its not a huge stretch....the fact we have other assets to sweeten the deal if need be, just makes it that much more of something that u consider...hell, u can even throw in up to 3 million, so suddenly austin is potentially gonna cost that team only 6 million next year....its not so farfetched....as time goes by, austin isnt as bad a deal....we ve gotten thru the tough part...we are on the way down, now...

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Im confused, was that directed at me?
    No.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Finally something being moved up instead of moved back these next two weeks will certainly be interesting

    Why Not Us ?


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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade 20X6
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    How about Croshere in Motown?

    Mmm...Crotown...

    LMAO that was hilarious!

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I'm sorta leaning that way too, however the question is would the simons allow it.

    Also, that's a pretty big amount of cash to choke on, paying $6 million just to keep your 3rd string SF from going to a rival, and watch him get mop-up duty off your bench.

    I'm sure Donnie would gladly pay Shaq-type money to keep the pistons from improving, but Donnie doesn't pay the bills.

    If Joe is willing to pay JJ $6mill per, I will be really glad. I wish Joe was dumb but I don't think he is. JJ is good but not $6 mill good for another three years. The contract after this one might be a good one for JJ but he will have to settle for lot less unless a lottery team with lot of cap room comes and offers him some ungodly offer.

    He is a very good shooter and will be good to have, but $6mill per is very high for him. Except for weak side blocks, his one on one defense is very suspect. He cannot create his own shot, atleast yet.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by pacerwaala
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    If Joe is willing to pay JJ $6mill per, I will be really glad. I wish Joe was dumb but I don't think he is. JJ is good but not $6 mill good for another three years. The contract after this one might be a good one for JJ but he will have to settle for lot less unless a lottery team with lot of cap room comes and offers him some ungodly offer.

    He is a very good shooter and will be good to have, but $6mill per is very high for him. Except for weak side blocks, his one on one defense is very suspect. He cannot create his own shot, atleast yet.
    You misread me.

    I said JJ will likely get $3 million from somebody.

    However, since the Pacers will be over the luxury tax, whatever they sign JJ for this year will be doubled. So the theoretical $3 million becomes $6 million.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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    Default Re: Big news..the amnesty deadline has been moved WAY up to 8/15

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    You misread me.

    I said JJ will likely get $3 million from somebody.

    However, since the Pacers will be over the luxury tax, whatever they sign JJ for this year will be doubled. So the theoretical $3 million becomes $6 million.
    I'd rather sign him, then trade him before the deadline. That's allowed, as long as we don't trade him to you.
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