as i mentioned, we seem to have differing values on what a title means....
and as i stated earlier, bragging rights have zero value in my eyes...let me see if i can explain....
in the aba days, and even after that, there was no internet....
and in indiana, u didnt have many kentucky colonels, new york nets, denver nuggets, or utah stars fans.....so ur motivation for winning a title had nothing to do with having bragging rights...who were u going to brag to???? ur fellow pacers fans???
no, it was about just how sweet it felt to experience ur beloved team achieving the ultimate goal....and sharing the experience and excitement with other pacers fans-not belittling other teams fans or talking trash....
then when we made the jump to the nba, some of this that we see now began to develop....namely where celtics fans were concerned.....now all of a sudden u had another teams fans right in ur own backyard....the possibility of trash talking and the like became much more likely....and hence a new type of fan entered the mix....some became more enamored with the fight and the hate versus the actual overall success of the team...and given that teams lack of overall success, its not that hard to understand, i suppose...
however with the advent of the internet, u now have direct access to all of the teams fans....and it seems this only helped breed the internet bully....weak individuals that could hide behind their anonymity to make all sorts of irrational, false bravado type statements....
u must forgive me if i dont see how ur favorite team winning a title gives someone bragging rights....there is nothing about any of this that relates to bragging, where im concerned....i, like just about everyone around, have nothing to do with the actual outcome.....they didnt win because of me...they didnt lose because of me.....so i find the notion of bragging quite laughable....
the only difference would simply be when some dumba$$ fan from another team does like to play internet bully and start bragging, u do have the satisfaction of knowing the facts for that one year allow u to realize just how stupid some people are....
as much as i hate the pistons, im not gonna feel compelled to brag about how great we are when we win the title...to their fans or anyone elses....winning to me, whether its a game or a title, is not about the entitlement of being able to say i told u so and belittle others....its about a feeling of satisfaction and excitement that can only be measured against the pit in ur stomach when u lose....and that sick feeling u get in ur stomach has nothing to do with bragging rights....my hate for the pistons has everything to do with nov. 19 and 20 and nothing to do with losing to them in the playoffs the last two years....and those losses in the playoffs hurt because of the sinking feeling of no hope to win a title-and nothing to do about what some moron piston fans might say...
Of course not.as much as i hate the pistons, im not gonna feel compelled to brag about how great we are when we win the title...
You do that already.
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There's no Dynasty without Heather Locklear....
O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?
"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."
Does that make me a bad person?
Is Taz a shrink? He suggests that we do soul searching a lot, I was wondering if this was a professional opinon, or the whim of an amateur.
You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
i personally think thats fine...and doesnt make u a bad person....as long as its limited to those people that u mention have insulted ur team, fans and city.....now, if u then use that as material to berate and belittle them, then in my book ur no different than them....but as long as u dont do that ur a classy winner......feeling that satisfaction is a very special feeling.....talking trash about it totally detracts from it in my eyes...
Anyways, back to the thread...
We do have a possible dynasty in the making. Nothing has been done yet to give us bragging rights, but, who said we're bragging? Jonathon Bender embodies this team, it's all about potential people!
The players we have now are good enough when they work together to win 60 games, and have success in the playoffs. We all know that. We hope that they win the title, and then the next one, and the next, and every other one after that. I can't help but agree with the original post in that we have the potential to do these great things.
Have we? No. Will we? That's why we're fans.
BLUE COLLAR GOLD SWAGGER
Sorry if my initial post seemed very "fan boyish."
The main idea I was trying to convey was that our big 4 (Jo, Ron, Jack, Tins) could lift this team to Dynasty status. They all seem to want a championship and they all seem to hate losing. Those are great qualities.
What they have lacked in seasons past have been simple, maturity. I think the Ron getting suspended thing was a God send. I could be wrong, but I think Ron will be the least of our worries this year. I think JO will be our biggest concern.
There is no doubt to me Ron will be ON FIRE this season. He has his head on straight, is in great shape, and has a lot of motivation to do great things. Ron Artest is our best player, but JO is the face of the franchise.
If JO can grow up and learn to work WITH Ron, Jack and Tins and everyone else. Then no one can stop us.
But if he continues to demand the ball in the post and shoot fadeaways, then we will be what we always are. A paper champion. We will win a lot of games, let a lot of games we should of won slip away. Then choke in the playoffs.
Basically, my thread should of been titled. JO: The Difference Maker.
On paper our team is as good as any of the Dynasty teams back in the day. Sure we don't have a FLASHY superstar. But that doesn't matter. We've got possibly one of the best defenders to play the game, two amazing point guards, championship experience (sjack.)
And of course....Jermaine.
Basically, someone needs to let Jermaine realize. Him being the "leader" of this team. Doesn't mean he has to score the most points or all that Jazz. With our offensive lineup, JO should just catch his breath on offense and focus more on D.
I think Sarunas style of play is going to completely change the way this team plays basketball and probably rub off on Tinsley a little bit. Tinsley has the same skills as Sarunas, might be a little better.
Anyways, I don't go to bed at night thinking this team will be a franchise. I just KNOW the pieces fit....it's just a matter of them working as a cohesive unit with....ONE GOAL.
A few things I think really stick in my mind as very large factors in our taking a championship. First, getting in the mindset of building momentum towards the end of the season. That includes very much an element of team chemistry, but also as important the physical conditioning to be at our best in May and June. Secondly, really getting guys to trust each other in pressure situations and have clutch performers who want the ball and can keep their heads in those situations. In this regard, Ron has a lot to prove to everyone.
SJax has been in a championship situation, but no one else has. Physical talent and depth will take us a long way, but mentally we have a lot of growth potential. (that word again)
I don't know what some of you are smoking but this team is not going to be a dynasty. Do you honsestly see us winning it all 2 years in a row? If you do I want some of that weed.
Hell, I'll be happy with the first Pacers' NBA championship, whenever that occurs.
Let's not get the cart in front of the horse, here.
Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
And life itself, rushing over me
Life itself, the wind in black elms,
Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you
Pacer Fan in '06 and '07.. Why not us... Why not now???
Piston Fans in 06 and 07
Why Not Us ?
Here is an Ironic Twist If the Pacers were to win the Championship..(knock on wood).. Reggie is still under contract, Do think they would have a Ring made for him as a honorary member.. hmmm food for thought....
Why Not Us ?
To me it seems like if we don't win it all in the next 2 - 3 years we never will.
Yeah, I've wondered about that. Because he's still under contract, shouldn't he? He's still a part of the team. Moreso than Darko was part of the Pistons' Championship.
If I were LB or DW, and we won this season, I would have one made whether it was 'official' or not.
BLUE COLLAR GOLD SWAGGER