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Thread: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

  1. #1

    Default Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    This may have been covered elsewhere.

    James Jones re-signing seems to be a no-brainer. Here is how I understand it.

    JJ can sign for the NBA average salary (about $5 million). The Pacers would not actually use the MLE (its mostly going to Saras). But he qualifies as having "Early Bird rights"


    • Own free agent, 2 seasons without changing teams as a free agent
    • Max salary = Greater of 175% of previous salary or average NBA salary
    • Must sign for at least 2 years, can get a 12.5% raise.
    • The NBA average salary is = MLE.
    In short, the only way the Pacers lose JJ is if someone offers him a deal greater than the MLE, which seems unlikely.

    Dale Davis could be a bit trickier. He qualifies for a non-bird exception, meaning he could make 120% of his previous salary. What I'm not sure of, is whether that means his $10 million salary that he was paid (GS/NO) or the minimum salary that the Pacers signed him to. I'm guessing the latter.

    The Pacers could also use what is left of the MLE. Assuming that Saras contract starts aroun $3.7 mil per year, it would leave roughly $1.3 mil for DD.


    The third option would be to sign him to the $1 mil exception (which would actually start at $1.7 mil)


    It seems as though the Pacers would be screwed if someone were to offer him a part of their own MLE (say $3 mil per year). The Pacers do not need to use the MLE on JJ, becaus of his Early Bird rights.

    Sound right?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    We signed DD to the minimum salary last season, even though he only played a portion of the season for us. Therefore, his annual salary would have been about $1.6M. So if we are allowed to pay him 120% of his last annual salary with us, that indicates that the maximum that we could pay him would be about $1.9M, since the other options would result in salaries less than that.

    As far as JJ goes, the risk is not that another team would offer more than the average salary, because that isn't going to happen. No how, no way. The risk is that someone will pay JJ more than we are willing to offer him, because whatever the max is that we are willing to offer, it is no where near $5M.

    But if we are only willing to go let's say $1.5M - $2M, and someone else is willing to offer $3M, then he's gone.

  3. #3
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Is it allowable to combine the remainder of the MLE with the 1 Million (1.7MM) Exception? If they can be combined and used on one player, that would mean signing Dale for somewhere between 2 and 3 Mil a year. That's a deal that I think he would take.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
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    We signed DD to the minimum salary last season, even though he only played a portion of the season for us. Therefore, his annual salary would have been about $1.6M. So if we are allowed to pay him 120% of his last annual salary with us, that indicates that the maximum that we could pay him would be about $1.9M, since the other options would result in salaries less than that..
    The minimum salary and the Million dollar exception are not the same thing. The minimum salary for a 10 year vet is about $1 million. The $1 million exception is $1.7 million. So the Pacers could only give him 120% of $1 million or the $1.7 million exception.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles
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    Is it allowable to combine the remainder of the MLE with the 1 Million (1.7MM) Exception? If they can be combined and used on one player, that would mean signing Dale for somewhere between 2 and 3 Mil a year. That's a deal that I think he would take.
    I don't believe exceptions are combinable, though some are splittable (like the MLE). Could be wrong though.

  6. #6
    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Playerfficeffice" />>>

    2005/06>>
    Jermaine O'Neal>>

    $16,425,000>>
    Austin Croshere>>

    $8,910,000>>
    Jonathan Bender>>

    $7,100,000>>
    Ron Artest>>

    $6,500,000>>
    Scot Pollard>>

    $6,274,937>>
    Reggie Miller>>

    $6,100,000>>
    Jamaal Tinsley>>

    $5,400,000>>
    Stephen Jackson>>

    $5,390,000>>
    Jeff Foster>>

    $4,750,000>>
    Anthony Johnson>>

    $2,695,000>>
    Fred Jones>>

    $2,328,842>>
    Danny Granger>>

    Signed

    Eddie Gill>>

    $870,546>>
    David Harrison>>

    $690,960>>
    James Jones>>

    >>

    John Edwards>>

    >>

    TOTALS:>>
    $74,060,285>>


    Add to this Saras and we now have 15 under contract right? so we will need to Drop Croshere and do a 2 for 1 trade to actually sign Dale and JJ . correct?

  7. #7
    Member zag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    I don't think Reggie counts in the number even though we're paying him.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by zag
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    I don't think Reggie counts in the number even though we're paying him.
    He doesn't.

  9. #9
    Member Frank Slade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    You're right I missed that one. Ok that settles one spot. Drop Austin and there is you other.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Does Bender count since he wont actually play?

  11. #11
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant
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    I don't believe exceptions are combinable, though some are splittable (like the MLE). Could be wrong though.
    no...ur not wrong...exceptions cannot be combined...

    the most we can offer any new free agent coming on board is the LLE which as mentioned is about 1.6 million or so....

  12. #12

    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    The Pacers have
    • the $1.7mil exception (was $1.6 last year).
    • Whatever is left of the MLE after Saras signing ~$1.3 mil
    • They can also sign anybody to the veterans minimum (no more than about $1 mil)
    JJ is a given IMO. DD is unknown. 12 months ago I thought no one would give a bag of basketballs for him, but now I think the Pacers could be outbid pretty easily. I think there is always room for a veteran warrior like DD, but who knows?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    I'll start with a disclaimer to stave off angry replies -- I'm new to the board -- long time Pacer fan now in CA.

    BUT....
    I don't see a role for Dale Davis on the current team. I loved watching Dale in the 90's and in the 2000 Playoffs. However, this is nostalgia. I'm not sure he can be an answer in the post for 82+ games. Foster is more than capable of handling the post. I expect him to be very important to this team.

    Now, I agree with others on this board that the Pacers will miss Reggie more than they know. This is a team without a leader and it needs one for a finals run. I hope someone steps up. If Dale can become that leader, then he is worth his weight in platinum. I'm just not sure he can be that leader.

    I'll step back now and let the ideas fly.

  14. #14
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Quote Originally Posted by twscholl
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    I'll start with a disclaimer to stave off angry replies -- I'm new to the board -- long time Pacer fan now in CA.

    BUT....
    I don't see a role for Dale Davis on the current team. I loved watching Dale in the 90's and in the 2000 Playoffs. However, this is nostalgia. I'm not sure he can be an answer in the post for 82+ games. Foster is more than capable of handling the post. I expect him to be very important to this team.

    Now, I agree with others on this board that the Pacers will miss Reggie more than they know. This is a team without a leader and it needs one for a finals run. I hope someone steps up. If Dale can become that leader, then he is worth his weight in platinum. I'm just not sure he can be that leader.

    I'll step back now and let the ideas fly.
    hmmmm....the value of dale is strictly nostalgic while the loss of reggie is real...

    hmmm

    have u met my good friend peck?

    i think the thought that dale will play major minutes for the whole season and still be effective is flawed....

    i think the thought that foster can handle the post is flawed...

    that being said, i think dale can be quite valuable to the team in a reduced role during the season while jeff as well as others (harrison, most notably) do the lions share , thereby allowing everyone to be available and fresh for the postseason

  15. #15

    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Realistically, I assume that, while he's saying "all the right things," James Jones probably has been looking to move on to another team after the drafting of Granger. And today's signing of Saras kinda seals his fate, IMHO.

    I would love to have James back, as he could be a good role player for several years, but the Pacers have made 2 moves that likely have pushed both pushed James out the door from his end and closed it on our end.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Dale is the only frontcourt player who is a warrior/enforcer/tough guy. You can't really replace that. If you could assure me that Harrison/Foster/Pollard would be healthy and productive, I wouldn't mind seeing DD go. But with the injuries and lack of depth at PF, I would rather he stay.

  17. #17
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    [QUOTE=Pacerfan23]
    Playerfficeffice" />>>

    2005/06>>
    Jermaine O'Neal>>

    $16,425,000>>
    Austin Croshere>>

    $8,910,000>>
    Jonathan Bender>>

    $7,100,000>>
    Ron Artest>>

    $6,500,000>>
    Scot Pollard>>

    $6,274,937>>
    Reggie Miller>>

    $6,100,000>>
    Jamaal Tinsley>>

    $5,400,000>>
    Stephen Jackson>>

    $5,390,000>>
    Jeff Foster>>

    $4,750,000>>
    Anthony Johnson>>

    $2,695,000>>
    Fred Jones>>

    $2,328,842>>
    Danny Granger>>

    Signed

    Eddie Gill>>

    $870,546>>
    David Harrison>>

    $690,960>>
    James Jones>>

    >>

    John Edwards>>

    >>

    TOTALS:>>
    $74,060,285>>


    QUOTE]

    I want to know how you post something this big? I know attachments can't be over 39 kb. So what gives?

  18. #18
    Tim
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    If Dale is realistic about what the Pacers will pay and he really wants to be here, Pacers will get it done.

    Does he want to be here?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    Will, it's not an attachment: He just pasted it from the site; we handle HTML.

  20. #20
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    Wink Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    [QUOTE=foretaz]hmmmm....the value of dale is strictly nostalgic while the loss of reggie is real...

    have u met my good friend peck?

    Not familiar with Peck -- Do we agree, or is he a DD fan who just declared me a mortal enemy?

    i think the thought that dale will play major minutes for the whole season and still be effective is flawed....

    I'll give you this. To me, the posts on this thread seemed to suggest that Dale was the starter at 5 we needed. I'm not sure that is true.

    i think the thought that foster can handle the post is flawed...

    I disagree. Foster was brilliant against the Pistons. He bangs effectively with Ben and Rasheed and he keeps opponents from focusing too much on JO. Not to mention his D and rebounding skills. He is the perfect counterpart to JO in the post. (IMO)



  21. #21
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Signability of Dale Davis and James Jones

    [QUOTE=twscholl]
    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    hmmmm....the value of dale is strictly nostalgic while the loss of reggie is real...

    have u met my good friend peck?

    Not familiar with Peck -- Do we agree, or is he a DD fan who just declared me a mortal enemy?

    i think the thought that dale will play major minutes for the whole season and still be effective is flawed....

    I'll give you this. To me, the posts on this thread seemed to suggest that Dale was the starter at 5 we needed. I'm not sure that is true.

    i think the thought that foster can handle the post is flawed...

    I disagree. Foster was brilliant against the Pistons. He bangs effectively with Ben and Rasheed and he keeps opponents from focusing too much on JO. Not to mention his D and rebounding skills. He is the perfect counterpart to JO in the post. (IMO)




    hmmmm...maybe ill just let peck handle this one...

    especially that part about foster being the perfect complement to JO....

    i think jeff is a very valuable member of the team...and probably a rather valuable commodity across the league....

    im not totally convinced that hes the perfect complement to jo...i think harrison might very well be a better complement, at least potentially....

    i do disagree that foster is a banger, if thats whats being said....he seems to be much more effective using his speed and quickness, as well as anticipation...

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