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Thread: Mike Bibby

  1. #101
    Naptown Seth
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    lets look at your list of top-tier PGs:

    Jason Kidd (the guy that Billups outscored 22-0 in game 7 last year)
    Steve Nash (this from the same guy that complains that Bibby doesn't play D)
    Allen Iverson (does he even count as a PG?)
    Baron Davis (from the same guy that thinks Chauncey's FG% is too low)
    Stephon Marbury ( )
    Steve Francis ( the same guy whose own TEAM replaced at PG with Jameer Nelson halfway through last year )
    Gilbert Arenas ( )

    The best statistic: Billups has 1 more finals MVP and 1 more ring than all 7 of them combined.
    Let's break it down:

    Kidd is a far better passer and rebounder, and is a better defender. If you argue that Billups is better than Kidd than you're beyond a homer. He's been the #1 Player On A Finals Team

    Nash is a better shooter, rebounder, and far better passer. There's a reason he was named MVP and Chauncey Billups wasn't even an All-Star reserve

    Iversons a far better scorer, better passer, and equal defender and rebounder. He's been the #1 Player On A Finals Team

    Baron Davis is a better scorer, rebounder, and passer.

    Marbury's a better scorer and passer.

    Francis is a better scorer, rebounder, and passer.

    Arenas is a better scorer and slightly better rebounder.

    Think about it this way - if playing with Larry Brown and the Pistons hall of fame-worthy defense can turn a career bench player like Chauncey Billups into a Finals MVP, what do you think it could do for the guys mentioned above? Turn them into top-25 players of all-time?

  2. #102
    Rebound King Kstat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown Seth
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    Think about it this way - if playing with Larry Brown and the Pistons hall of fame-worthy defense can turn a career bench player like Chauncey Billups into a Finals MVP, what do you think it could do for the guys mentioned above? Turn them into top-25 players of all-time?
    Obviously, Marbury should average 30 and 10 this year, then, since without Larry Brown Chauncey is a scrub

    BTW, what chauncey averaging on the pistons before larry brown was the coach? about the same scoring average he has now? ok then.

    BTW, Billups for being such a "gunner," still had a higher playoff assist/turover ratio than anyone on your list in the playoffs.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  3. #103
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I could walk onto an NBA court, get a meaningless layup, walk off, and by 48-mpg stats, I'd win the MVP hands-down.

    I wasn't trying to sneak by those stats, I simply don't believe in them.

    There is nothing more meaningless and overrated in the NBA that per-minute stats. They don't take endurance into account, which happens to be one of Tinsley's main weaknesses.

    Say Tinsley plays that extra 6 minutes per game. That's 240 extra minutes over the 40 games he played. Maybe he gets a little more tired every game, and hid FG% drops and his turnovers go up? Those stats don't account for that. Also, it's foolish to assume that even the most durable player is just as productive in the 40th minute as he is in the 4th minute.



    Good. I'd hate to think that I'm debating a person who thinks he's wrong....
    You can rant about endurance all you want, but if you are going to say Bibby is the better rebounder and passer by margins of .4 and .2. then you have to consider those six extra minutes. It's just common sense.


    Reggie Evans averaged 9.3 rebounds in 24 minutes. Zach Randolph averaged 9.6 in 34 minutes. Are you really going to tell me Randolph is the better rebounder?
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  4. #104
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    If Tinsley were capable of playing 38 minutes a game, he's be playing 38 minutes a game. Anthony Johnson is ok, but in no way is he some sort of stud backup that demands Tinsley spend 1/3 of every game on the bench.

    If Bobby were on the Pacers, would he average more than 32 minutes a game? Put it this way: BIbby's lowst single-season MPG is still higher than Tinsley's HIGHEST MPG.

    And Bibby had the best backup PG in the NBA playing behind him.

    There's a reason Tinsley hasn't been able to average 33 minutes per game in a season, and it isn't because of the Pacers' incredible PG depth.
    Playing low minutes doesn't always equal being out of shape. Sometimes guys just aren't on the court as much because they aren't complete players. Tinsley is great and all, but he still lets opposing PG's blow by him more often than not. That might fly with Adelman over in the King's system, but I don't blame Rick for wanting to play AJ more.
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  5. #105
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat
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    I could walk onto an NBA court, get a meaningless layup, walk off, and by 48-mpg stats, I'd win the MVP hands-down.

    I wasn't trying to sneak by those stats, I simply don't believe in them.

    There is nothing more meaningless and overrated in the NBA that per-minute stats. They don't take endurance into account, which happens to be one of Tinsley's main weaknesses.

    Say Tinsley plays that extra 6 minutes per game. That's 240 extra minutes over the 40 games he played. Maybe he gets a little more tired every game, and hid FG% drops and his turnovers go up? Those stats don't account for that. Also, it's foolish to assume that even the most durable player is just as productive in the 40th minute as he is in the 4th minute.



    Good. I'd hate to think that I'm debating a person who thinks he's wrong....

    Bingo. I was trying to make this point a couple weeks ago in another thread when per 48 minutes came up. I only care about the stats that are recorded.

    By theory, a guy could average 2 points in 2 minutes, and you could say "he'd average 48 points in 48 minutes."

    If someone has to go to per 48 minute stats to make an argument, they don't have much of a case to begin with.

  6. #106
    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mike Bibby

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerFanAdam
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    If someone has to go to per 48 minute stats to make an argument, they don't have much of a case to begin with.
    So then, you would agree that Zach Randolph is a better rebounder than Reggie Evans?
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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