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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • Article Request

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/colum...26id%3d2113841


    If someone could please.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

  • #2
    Re: Article Request

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/colum...=2113841&num=3

    Chad Ford:
    "Stars aren't made in the NBA's summer leagues, but we did learn a few things in the last three weeks.

    First, a caveat: When judging players, take summer league performances with a grain of salt.

    Success in the summer leagues isn't a very accurate predictor of who will become an NBA star. While in previous summers LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Al Jefferson and Marquis Daniels gave us early signs that they were ready to have breakout years, players such as Qyntel Woods, Willie Green, John Salmons and Zarko Cabarkapa have also dominated in these leagues.

    A more accurate predictor is summer league failure. Nine times out of 10, it seems, if a player can't produce against the watered-down competition in the summer leagues, he'll struggle mightily to get it done against real NBA players during the season. But even that is only a short-term prediction, not a long-term one.

    This year, the NBA held four summer leagues across the country -- the Reebok Vegas Summer League, the Minnesota Summer League, the Southern California Summer Pro League in Los Angeles and the Reebok Rocky Mountain Revue in Salt Lake City.

    Who played well? Who bombed out? Insider talked to a number of NBA scouts and executives during the week to get you the skinny. Here's what the NBA Boys of Summer were up to in July.


    Summer Studs
    Nate Robinson, G, Knicks
    Stats: 17.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg in the Vegas Summer League
    Stats: 15.2 ppg, 5.8 apg at the Minnesota Summer League
    The skinny: Robinson was the most exciting player on the floor for two straight weeks and had scouts walking away convinced that he could be an instant impact player in the league. His speed and intensity can overcome any size limitations.

    In fact, scouts in Minnesota said he started to show that he could distribute the ball. Still, make no mistake, Robinson is a scorer -- much like the Bulls' Ben Gordon, Robinson's job will be to jump-start the offense (and the crowd) whenever he enters the game.

    I still can't get over the fact that the Suns traded him. He would be perfect -- perfect -- in Phoenix.

    Ike Diogu, PF, Warriors
    Stats: 18.4 ppg, 8.4 rpg in the Reebok Vegas Summer Shootout
    The skinny: The questions about whether Diogu has the size or skills to play the four in the NBA are quickly dissipating. He started off the summer slowly and finished with a flurry, dropping 37 points and 12 rebounds on the last day.

    He looks more and more like the second coming of Elton Brand.

    Hakim Warrick, F, Grizzlies
    Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg on 54 percent shooting at the Southern California Summer Pro League
    The skinny: Warrick was a college stud who slipped a bit in the draft because no one knew for sure what position he'd play in the NBA. That's still not settled after seven games, but the Grizzlies believe they have a versatile player who's going to find a way to get the ball in the basket and grab rebounds.

    The odd thing is that Warrick's athleticism doesn't translate into blocked shots. He blocked zero shots in seven games for Memphis.

    Chris Paul, PG, Hornets
    Stats: 15.3 ppg, 5.5 apg, 4.7 apg in the Vegas Summer League
    The skinny: Paul got off to a red-hot start (21 points, five assists, four rebounds against the Cavs and 12 points, nine assists vs. the Wizards) before a minor injury ended up slowing him down for the rest of the camp.

    The consensus among summer league scouts is that Paul will be the leading candidate for Rookie of the Year.


    Andrew Bogut, C, Bucks
    Stats: 13.2 ppg, 10 rpg, 1.4 bpg in the Minnesota Summer League
    The skinny: Bogut had an up-and-down week.

    He was outplayed by the trio of Dwayne Jones, Nick Horvath and David Simon in the first game and finished with just seven points. Then Bogut was dominated in the paint by David Harrison, the Pacers' second-year center, showing he had neither the strength nor the quickness to guard an NBA player in the paint.

    All that said, Bogut definitely had his moments. He was great in games against the Rockets, Raptors and Knicks. He showed tenacity on the boards, patience on the offensive end and an ability for moving the ball out of the post.

    The talent is there, but questions remain about whether he's physically ready to come in and play center in the NBA.


    SLEEPER: Andrew Bynum, C, Lakers
    Stats: 10.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg at the Southern California Summer Pro League
    The skinny: No one was expecting anything from Bynum for at least two years, but he played as though he belonged in his first seven games.

    He has soft hands and great size, and he runs the floor pretty well. Bynum was out of shape and needs to get stronger, but he was much more skilled than most scouts thought.

    It doesn't mean he'll get a sniff of playing time in L.A. next season, but it looks like the Lakers may have a keeper.

    Honorable Mention: Wayne Simien, PF, Heat (17.1 ppg, 7 rpg); Sean May, PF, Bobcats (14.8 ppg, 8.4 rpg); Channing Frye, C, Knicks (13.8 ppg, 5 rpg); David Lee, PF, Knicks (12 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Jason Maxiell, PF, Pistons (15 ppg, 3.6 rpg); Linas Kleiza, F, Nuggets (15.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Eddie Basden, G/F, Bulls (14 ppg, 5 rpg); Lawrence Roberts, PF, Grizzlies (13.6 ppg, 11.7 rpg); Alex Acker, G, Pistons (14.4 ppg, 3.2 rpg); Ryan Gomes, F, Celtics (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Monta Ellis, G, Warriors (15.8 ppg, 3 rpg); Antoine Wright, G, Nets (16.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg); Raymond Felton, PG, Bobcats (12.5 ppg, 5.5 apg); Julius Hodge, G, Nuggets (13.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg); Martell Webster, G, Blazers (12.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg).


    Breakout Performers

    Travis Outlaw, F, Blazers
    Stats: 18.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg in the Reebok Vegas Summer Shootout
    The skinny: Outlaw looked last summer as though he was going to be one of the few high school-to-pros busts. However, some good playing time toward the end of last season seems to have bolstered his confidence.

    Armed with a nice mid-range jumper, a ton of athleticism and great energy, Outlaw was definitely the surprise player in Vegas. Within days, GM John Nash said he was getting phone calls from teams offering first-round picks for Outlaw. But the Blazers would prefer to move Darius Miles and put Outlaw on the floor more this season.

    Chris Kaman, C, Clippers
    Stats: 20.2 ppg, 8.6 rpg in the Vegas Summer Pro League
    The skinny: If the Clippers are going to make a serious push for the playoffs next season, some of the responsibility is going to rest firmly on Kaman's shoulders. Elton Brand and Corey Maggette will deliver. Shaun Livingston has great promise at the point. And Cuttino Mobley will improve the team's shooting. But they need more help in the middle and Kaman showed in Vegas that he's capable of delivering -- at least against summer leaguers.
    Sebastian Telfair, PG, Blazers
    Stats: 18.7 ppg, 6 apg in the Vegas Summer Pro League
    The skinny: I wasn't a fan of Telfair last summer and still have my reservations about him, but it's tough to deny that he continues to improve. His court vision is excellent and he has a knack for getting to the rim. His jump shot is as ugly as ever, but if he can push the ball and keep turnovers down, he's got a chance to be special.

    Kevin Martin, G, Kings
    Stats: 19.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg on 47 percent shooting
    The skinny: The Kings have spent the summer (and another draft pick on Francisco Garcia) trying to find a replacement for Cuttino Mobley this summer. After Martin's excellent summer league performance, have they found him?

    Martin was also awesome last summer, but he didn't score with this efficiency or with this accuracy (41 percent) from 3-point country. Though his relative lack of strength still makes him a defensive liability, he's an awesome scorer.

    Lonny Baxter, F/C, Rockets
    Stats: 21 ppg, 6.2 rpg on 59 percent shooting in the Minnesota Summer League
    The skinny: Baxter's another summer league warrior who never quite gets the minutes he needs to produce in the NBA. The Rockets love his ability to score around the basket, but with Stromile Swift set to join the team this fall, will Baxter ever catch a break?


    SLEEPER: Nikoloz Tskitishvili, F, Timberwolves
    Stats: 13.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg in the Minnesota Summer League
    The skinny: Skita was awesome in the first game, scoring 25 points, grabbing 10 rebounds, and shooting 4-for-5 from 3-point land, all in 17 minutes. Unfortunately, he broke his hand nine minutes into the next game and missed the rest of the summer league.

    But his performance was impressive enough that the Wolves and Skita agreed to a free-agent contract late Thursday night. Still, before the Dirk comparisons begin again, it's important to point out that Skita put on a show in Vegas last year as well, leading all scorers with 25.7 ppg and shooting lights out from behind the 3-point line.

    Honorable Mention: Dwight Howard, PF, Magic (19 ppg, 7.5 rpg); J.R. Smith, SG, Hornets (20.6 ppg); Tony Allen, G, Celtics (16.8 ppg); David Harrison, C, Pacers (14.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg); Luke Jackson, G/F, Cavs (11.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4 apg); Matt Carroll, G/F, Bobcats (15.4 ppg); Britton Johnsen, F, Spurs (15.7 ppg, 8.7 rpg); Dion Glover, G, Rockets (18.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg); Josh Powell, F, Mavs (11.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg); Leandro Barbosa, G, Suns (18 ppg); Olumide Oyedeji, PF, Cavs (9.6 ppg, 7 rpg); Maciej Lampe, C, Hornets (11.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg); Andris Biedrins, C, Warriors (7.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg).


    Summer Duds
    Marvin Williams, F, Hawks
    Stats: 7.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 28 percent shooting in the Rocky Mountain Revue
    The skinny: Williams has been, in a word, awful. That doesn't mean much for his long-term future. As we've said before, the summer league isn't the most accurate predictor of what a player will or won't do in the season.

    But scouts claim that Williams looks tight and often lost on both ends of the floor. That can't be what the Hawks were hoping for from the guy that should be their franchise player.

    I still believe that Williams will end up being the best player in the draft. But he isn't off to a great start.

    Al Jefferson, PF, Celtics
    Stats: 7.5 ppg, 6 rpg in the Vegas Summer League
    The skinny: Jefferson's great summer league performance last season coupled with flashes of brilliance during the season had Celtics fans already clearing out a spot for Jefferson in Springfield. He definitely didn't take another step forward in Vegas. He shot just 44 percent from the field and never did much to impact the games. That's what the Celtics expected from Jefferson last summer, not this one.

    Darko Milicic, PF/C, Pistons
    Stats: 9.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg on 36 percent shooting in the Vegas Summer League
    The skinny: The excuses are about to stop. With Larry Brown out in Detroit, it's now time for Darko to respond.

    We can talk all we want to about rust (he hasn't played in two years) and conditioning (it's tough to keep in shape when you're the towel boy), but the Pistons had to be disappointed in what appeared to be an indifferent effort by Milicic.

    The rust will come off with playing time and the conditioning will improve. But what happened to the aggressive play that convinced the Pistons that Darko was not your typical Euro softie? Darko had flashes when he looked very good, but much of the time he just didn't look like he cared.

    That had better change or Flip Saunders will put him on the same seat on the bench that Larry did.

    Jonathan Bender, F, Pacers
    Stats: 8 ppg, 5 rpg on 25 percent shooting in the Minnesota Summer League
    The skinny: Who else is sick of hearing about how awesome Bender's potential is and how great he looks in practice?

    He's always hurt and extremely inconsistent when he is healthy enough to play. He played exactly one lackluster game for the Pacers in Minnesota and his body language was awful. He acted like he didn't want to be there, according to numerous scouts in the building.


    Kirk Snyder, G, Jazz
    Stats: 6 ppg, 1 rebound on 33 percent shooting in the Rocky Mountain Revue
    The skinny: With only one season under his belt, it's too early to call Snyder a bust. But if he keeps playing the way he has in Salt Lake, a monumental bust is exactly what he's going to be.

    Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider."
    Here, everyone have a : on me

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Article Request

      Originally posted by ILovethePacers
      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/colum...=2113841&num=3

      Chad Ford:
      "Stars aren't made in the NBA's summer leagues, but we did learn a few things in the last three weeks.

      First, a caveat: When judging players, take summer league performances with a grain of salt.

      Success in the summer leagues isn't a very accurate predictor of who will become an NBA star. While in previous summers LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Al Jefferson and Marquis Daniels gave us early signs that they were ready to have breakout years, players such as Qyntel Woods, Willie Green, John Salmons and Zarko Cabarkapa have also dominated in these leagues.

      A more accurate predictor is summer league failure. Nine times out of 10, it seems, if a player can't produce against the watered-down competition in the summer leagues, he'll struggle mightily to get it done against real NBA players during the season. But even that is only a short-term prediction, not a long-term one.

      This year, the NBA held four summer leagues across the country -- the Reebok Vegas Summer League, the Minnesota Summer League, the Southern California Summer Pro League in Los Angeles and the Reebok Rocky Mountain Revue in Salt Lake City.

      Who played well? Who bombed out? Insider talked to a number of NBA scouts and executives during the week to get you the skinny. Here's what the NBA Boys of Summer were up to in July.


      Summer Studs
      Nate Robinson, G, Knicks
      Stats: 17.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg in the Vegas Summer League
      Stats: 15.2 ppg, 5.8 apg at the Minnesota Summer League
      The skinny: Robinson was the most exciting player on the floor for two straight weeks and had scouts walking away convinced that he could be an instant impact player in the league. His speed and intensity can overcome any size limitations.

      In fact, scouts in Minnesota said he started to show that he could distribute the ball. Still, make no mistake, Robinson is a scorer -- much like the Bulls' Ben Gordon, Robinson's job will be to jump-start the offense (and the crowd) whenever he enters the game.

      I still can't get over the fact that the Suns traded him. He would be perfect -- perfect -- in Phoenix.

      Ike Diogu, PF, Warriors
      Stats: 18.4 ppg, 8.4 rpg in the Reebok Vegas Summer Shootout
      The skinny: The questions about whether Diogu has the size or skills to play the four in the NBA are quickly dissipating. He started off the summer slowly and finished with a flurry, dropping 37 points and 12 rebounds on the last day.

      He looks more and more like the second coming of Elton Brand.

      Hakim Warrick, F, Grizzlies
      Stats: 18.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg on 54 percent shooting at the Southern California Summer Pro League
      The skinny: Warrick was a college stud who slipped a bit in the draft because no one knew for sure what position he'd play in the NBA. That's still not settled after seven games, but the Grizzlies believe they have a versatile player who's going to find a way to get the ball in the basket and grab rebounds.

      The odd thing is that Warrick's athleticism doesn't translate into blocked shots. He blocked zero shots in seven games for Memphis.

      Chris Paul, PG, Hornets
      Stats: 15.3 ppg, 5.5 apg, 4.7 apg in the Vegas Summer League
      The skinny: Paul got off to a red-hot start (21 points, five assists, four rebounds against the Cavs and 12 points, nine assists vs. the Wizards) before a minor injury ended up slowing him down for the rest of the camp.

      The consensus among summer league scouts is that Paul will be the leading candidate for Rookie of the Year.


      Andrew Bogut, C, Bucks
      Stats: 13.2 ppg, 10 rpg, 1.4 bpg in the Minnesota Summer League
      The skinny: Bogut had an up-and-down week.

      He was outplayed by the trio of Dwayne Jones, Nick Horvath and David Simon in the first game and finished with just seven points. Then Bogut was dominated in the paint by David Harrison, the Pacers' second-year center, showing he had neither the strength nor the quickness to guard an NBA player in the paint.

      All that said, Bogut definitely had his moments. He was great in games against the Rockets, Raptors and Knicks. He showed tenacity on the boards, patience on the offensive end and an ability for moving the ball out of the post.

      The talent is there, but questions remain about whether he's physically ready to come in and play center in the NBA.


      SLEEPER: Andrew Bynum, C, Lakers
      Stats: 10.6 ppg, 7.5 rpg at the Southern California Summer Pro League
      The skinny: No one was expecting anything from Bynum for at least two years, but he played as though he belonged in his first seven games.

      He has soft hands and great size, and he runs the floor pretty well. Bynum was out of shape and needs to get stronger, but he was much more skilled than most scouts thought.

      It doesn't mean he'll get a sniff of playing time in L.A. next season, but it looks like the Lakers may have a keeper.

      Honorable Mention: Wayne Simien, PF, Heat (17.1 ppg, 7 rpg); Sean May, PF, Bobcats (14.8 ppg, 8.4 rpg); Channing Frye, C, Knicks (13.8 ppg, 5 rpg); David Lee, PF, Knicks (12 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Jason Maxiell, PF, Pistons (15 ppg, 3.6 rpg); Linas Kleiza, F, Nuggets (15.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Eddie Basden, G/F, Bulls (14 ppg, 5 rpg); Lawrence Roberts, PF, Grizzlies (13.6 ppg, 11.7 rpg); Alex Acker, G, Pistons (14.4 ppg, 3.2 rpg); Ryan Gomes, F, Celtics (12.2 ppg, 6.2 rpg); Monta Ellis, G, Warriors (15.8 ppg, 3 rpg); Antoine Wright, G, Nets (16.4 ppg, 2.8 rpg); Raymond Felton, PG, Bobcats (12.5 ppg, 5.5 apg); Julius Hodge, G, Nuggets (13.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg); Martell Webster, G, Blazers (12.7 ppg, 4.3 rpg).


      Breakout Performers

      Travis Outlaw, F, Blazers
      Stats: 18.6 ppg, 6.5 rpg in the Reebok Vegas Summer Shootout
      The skinny: Outlaw looked last summer as though he was going to be one of the few high school-to-pros busts. However, some good playing time toward the end of last season seems to have bolstered his confidence.

      Armed with a nice mid-range jumper, a ton of athleticism and great energy, Outlaw was definitely the surprise player in Vegas. Within days, GM John Nash said he was getting phone calls from teams offering first-round picks for Outlaw. But the Blazers would prefer to move Darius Miles and put Outlaw on the floor more this season.

      Chris Kaman, C, Clippers
      Stats: 20.2 ppg, 8.6 rpg in the Vegas Summer Pro League
      The skinny: If the Clippers are going to make a serious push for the playoffs next season, some of the responsibility is going to rest firmly on Kaman's shoulders. Elton Brand and Corey Maggette will deliver. Shaun Livingston has great promise at the point. And Cuttino Mobley will improve the team's shooting. But they need more help in the middle and Kaman showed in Vegas that he's capable of delivering -- at least against summer leaguers.
      Sebastian Telfair, PG, Blazers
      Stats: 18.7 ppg, 6 apg in the Vegas Summer Pro League
      The skinny: I wasn't a fan of Telfair last summer and still have my reservations about him, but it's tough to deny that he continues to improve. His court vision is excellent and he has a knack for getting to the rim. His jump shot is as ugly as ever, but if he can push the ball and keep turnovers down, he's got a chance to be special.

      Kevin Martin, G, Kings
      Stats: 19.4 ppg, 4.8 rpg on 47 percent shooting
      The skinny: The Kings have spent the summer (and another draft pick on Francisco Garcia) trying to find a replacement for Cuttino Mobley this summer. After Martin's excellent summer league performance, have they found him?

      Martin was also awesome last summer, but he didn't score with this efficiency or with this accuracy (41 percent) from 3-point country. Though his relative lack of strength still makes him a defensive liability, he's an awesome scorer.

      Lonny Baxter, F/C, Rockets
      Stats: 21 ppg, 6.2 rpg on 59 percent shooting in the Minnesota Summer League
      The skinny: Baxter's another summer league warrior who never quite gets the minutes he needs to produce in the NBA. The Rockets love his ability to score around the basket, but with Stromile Swift set to join the team this fall, will Baxter ever catch a break?


      SLEEPER: Nikoloz Tskitishvili, F, Timberwolves
      Stats: 13.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg in the Minnesota Summer League
      The skinny: Skita was awesome in the first game, scoring 25 points, grabbing 10 rebounds, and shooting 4-for-5 from 3-point land, all in 17 minutes. Unfortunately, he broke his hand nine minutes into the next game and missed the rest of the summer league.

      But his performance was impressive enough that the Wolves and Skita agreed to a free-agent contract late Thursday night. Still, before the Dirk comparisons begin again, it's important to point out that Skita put on a show in Vegas last year as well, leading all scorers with 25.7 ppg and shooting lights out from behind the 3-point line.

      Honorable Mention: Dwight Howard, PF, Magic (19 ppg, 7.5 rpg); J.R. Smith, SG, Hornets (20.6 ppg); Tony Allen, G, Celtics (16.8 ppg); David Harrison, C, Pacers (14.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg); Luke Jackson, G/F, Cavs (11.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4 apg); Matt Carroll, G/F, Bobcats (15.4 ppg); Britton Johnsen, F, Spurs (15.7 ppg, 8.7 rpg); Dion Glover, G, Rockets (18.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg); Josh Powell, F, Mavs (11.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg); Leandro Barbosa, G, Suns (18 ppg); Olumide Oyedeji, PF, Cavs (9.6 ppg, 7 rpg); Maciej Lampe, C, Hornets (11.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg); Andris Biedrins, C, Warriors (7.2 ppg, 6.8 rpg).


      Summer Duds
      Marvin Williams, F, Hawks
      Stats: 7.8 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 28 percent shooting in the Rocky Mountain Revue
      The skinny: Williams has been, in a word, awful. That doesn't mean much for his long-term future. As we've said before, the summer league isn't the most accurate predictor of what a player will or won't do in the season.

      But scouts claim that Williams looks tight and often lost on both ends of the floor. That can't be what the Hawks were hoping for from the guy that should be their franchise player.

      I still believe that Williams will end up being the best player in the draft. But he isn't off to a great start.

      Al Jefferson, PF, Celtics
      Stats: 7.5 ppg, 6 rpg in the Vegas Summer League
      The skinny: Jefferson's great summer league performance last season coupled with flashes of brilliance during the season had Celtics fans already clearing out a spot for Jefferson in Springfield. He definitely didn't take another step forward in Vegas. He shot just 44 percent from the field and never did much to impact the games. That's what the Celtics expected from Jefferson last summer, not this one.

      Darko Milicic, PF/C, Pistons
      Stats: 9.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg on 36 percent shooting in the Vegas Summer League
      The skinny: The excuses are about to stop. With Larry Brown out in Detroit, it's now time for Darko to respond.

      We can talk all we want to about rust (he hasn't played in two years) and conditioning (it's tough to keep in shape when you're the towel boy), but the Pistons had to be disappointed in what appeared to be an indifferent effort by Milicic.

      The rust will come off with playing time and the conditioning will improve. But what happened to the aggressive play that convinced the Pistons that Darko was not your typical Euro softie? Darko had flashes when he looked very good, but much of the time he just didn't look like he cared.

      That had better change or Flip Saunders will put him on the same seat on the bench that Larry did.

      Jonathan Bender, F, Pacers
      Stats: 8 ppg, 5 rpg on 25 percent shooting in the Minnesota Summer League
      The skinny: Who else is sick of hearing about how awesome Bender's potential is and how great he looks in practice?

      He's always hurt and extremely inconsistent when he is healthy enough to play. He played exactly one lackluster game for the Pacers in Minnesota and his body language was awful. He acted like he didn't want to be there, according to numerous scouts in the building.

      Kirk Snyder, G, Jazz
      Stats: 6 ppg, 1 rebound on 33 percent shooting in the Rocky Mountain Revue
      The skinny: With only one season under his belt, it's too early to call Snyder a bust. But if he keeps playing the way he has in Salt Lake, a monumental bust is exactly what he's going to be.

      Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider."

      How many outside sources saying this before some of you beleive what we've been saying for four years?

      He may have injury's but they have never been enough to make it so the guy can't play at all. Bruised shoulder anyone?

      Artest looks better & better every day.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Article Request



        Absolutely ridiculous.

        Why have we not waived Croshere already!?
        House Name: Pacers

        House Sigil:



        House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Article Request

          Jesus; I just want the entire Bender ordeal to be over and done with. I have never disliked a Pacer this much...probably because Bender epitomizes everything that I HATE in a basketball player.

          Trade him, cut him, force him to retire! Do whatever it takes Donnie. Just don't have this guy in a Pacers uniform by October.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Article Request

            Originally posted by Peck
            How many outside sources saying this before some of you beleive what we've been saying for four years?

            He may have injury's but they have never been enough to make it so the guy can't play at all. Bruised shoulder anyone?

            Artest looks better & better every day.




            Bender, with the injuries, I'm sure has been a bit frustrated, so maybe thats why its hard to give effort if every time you do you get pushed back 2 notches with injuries. I'm not defending the guy though. He, as mentioned, has not willingly come to practice with the coaches, who would actually help him. His lack of effort is irritating.
            Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Article Request

              Originally posted by Suaveness
              His lack of effort is irritating.
              Wait until he finally "breaks out" in the last 6 months of his contract, then demands a "max" deal.
              You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
              All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

              - Jimmy Buffett

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Article Request

                Originally I didn't dislike Bender. I just thought he was overhyped and a bad pick. Not what we needed at the time and someone not ready to contribute on a contender. A mistake that was festering and eventually would come to a head. I didn't see any signs of superstar in him and I kept looking for it. The intangibles were just never there. That's the key for me. Not that he could not every so often get to the basket or stroke a three but the drive and desire you see in the better players I just never saw in his eyes or body lanquage.

                And then this past season especially I did really have to question if he couldn't have suited up at times. I have no way of knowing that so it is simply an aside to my feelings on the subject.

                But how many stories do we have to hear and read to see that there is something wrong and he isn't chomping at the bit to get out there and compete? ...to be there for his team... How many summers to he have to do his 'own thing' rather than get to Indy and workout for the staff and with teammates?

                He's a bust of the biggest kind. We purposely sought him, traded a valued player for him (to be in a position to get him in the draft), drafted him higher than need be (which cost us more money), and then overpaid to extend him when we should've cut bait(IMHO) and what does he do? He basically snubs the organization. But he's got his money and he's got some pain. I guess he feels that is enough.

                This stuff is why I wouldn't be totally surprised if he was cut as our amnesty victim that nobody picked him up. There should be plenty of bargains to be had and I'm not sure in a buyer's market if Bender rates anyone else's time.

                Plus you have to think the rest of the league knows that Pacerland is one of the most player friendly environments around and if there was any hope the Pacer brass wouldn't cut him. Then again, they haven't cut him so maybe it is just me....

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Article Request

                  NO WAY IT WILL BE COMPLETELY ABOUT TIM DUNCAN AND THE SPURS AND KOBE AND SHAQ!!!!!!
                  House Name: Pacers

                  House Sigil:



                  House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Article Request

                    I think Bender is a bit mad at the Pacers right now for two reasons. One, the Pacers medical staff haven't fixed him, in fact there are rumors that the medical staff is part of the problem.

                    Two, he's a six year vet who obviously didn't want to play in a league for free agents and rookies. What made him look bad is Ron gladly playing, even though he's an all star, and the fact that he, Bender, had played in a tournament prior to playing his one game.

                    When he left the summer league he did say he needed a break because he had been going full steam since the middle of last season, yet he did play in one game.

                    One other thought. If he does like Doug said, Quote: "Wait until he finally "breaks out" in the last 6 months of his contract, then demands a "max" deal." I'll be furious at him and it's not even my money.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Article Request

                      Originally posted by Will Galen
                      When he left the summer league he did say he needed a break because he had been going full steam since the middle of last season, yet he did play in one game.
                      I wonder if Bender's definition of "full steam" would make most NBA players laugh?

                      -Bball
                      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                      ------

                      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                      -John Wooden

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Article Request

                        Originally posted by Will Galen
                        I think Bender is a bit mad at the Pacers right now for two reasons. One, the Pacers medical staff haven't fixed him, in fact there are rumors that the medical staff is part of the problem.

                        i agree with this will...i have a feeling hes not the only one a bit frustrated with his health issues....by birds moves, it appears he may share some of that frustration....

                        one look at benders body and its obvious he hasnt been goofing off...

                        as far as him playing in the summer league, id could give a ****...i dont personally need to see im play in a summer league as some way to satisfy me that he really wants to play....

                        what i want is to see him play in nba regular season games and contribute....outside of that, nothing else matters...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Article Request

                          Originally posted by Will Galen
                          I think Bender is a bit mad at the Pacers right now for two reasons. One, the Pacers medical staff haven't fixed him, in fact there are rumors that the medical staff is part of the problem.

                          Two, he's a six year vet who obviously didn't want to play in a league for free agents and rookies.
                          HOw could you call Bender a Vet. He's more like a walking sink-hole of Death,
                          which will drain the life blood of everything good and right. He's a repeat of
                          horror in my mind and to think i support him everytime i buy a ticket. Go Bender!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Article Request

                            Originally posted by foretaz

                            as far as him playing in the summer league, id could give a ****...i dont personally need to see im play in a summer league as some way to satisfy me that he really wants to play....

                            what i want is to see him play in nba regular season games and contribute....outside of that, nothing else matters...
                            Aren't you the one always telling us that the front office and coaching staff knows better than us? They expected Bender to play 2 summer league games. AFAIAC, Bender should've done exactly that. He OWES this franchise (fans, team, management, coaches) that bit of respect for the money and time they've invested in him. It is far and away more than probably anyone else in the NBA would've done (paid). The Pacers have made him wealthy and he's done next to nothing for this effort to pay them back.

                            Personally, I think he should've planned to play ALL summer league games and had the knee monitored closely to see how it was reacting in real game situations.

                            If I was to speculate... I'd bet that the '2' game number was a compromise that Bender stipulated when he was asked to play in summer league and then he blew even that off and played only one leaving the Pacers to do some damage control and not knowing exactly what to expect once training camp rolls around.

                            -Bball
                            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                            ------

                            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                            -John Wooden

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Article Request

                              Originally posted by Bball
                              Aren't you the one always telling us that the front office and coaching staff knows better than us? They expected Bender to play 2 summer league games. AFAIAC, Bender should've done exactly that. He OWES this franchise (fans, team, management, coaches) that bit of respect for the money and time they've invested in him. It is far and away more than probably anyone else in the NBA would've done (paid). The Pacers have made him wealthy and he's done next to nothing for this effort to pay them back.

                              Personally, I think he should've planned to play ALL summer league games and had the knee monitored closely to see how it was reacting in real game situations.

                              If I was to speculate... I'd bet that the '2' game number was a compromise that Bender stipulated when he was asked to play in summer league and then he blew even that off and played only one leaving the Pacers to do some damage control and not knowing exactly what to expect once training camp rolls around.

                              -Bball
                              as i alluded to.....while im not really one to get into the whole 'bender owes us' thing...if he does owe, as far im concerned theres only one way to get that...

                              and its playing in nba games....not summer league...

                              plus i have a feeling that his health is not to the point where he could play everyday....comments have been made that they hope he will be ready by october, meaning hes probably not ready yet....

                              as ive said...i understand people are frustrated....and people somehow would like for him to be seemingly punished by playing in summer league games....im not one of them....hes played before too soon and thats compounded the problem....

                              i dont care if he played all the summer league games and all the exhibition/preseason games....all i care about is if he plays the regular season games....forgive me if i dont think that playing 1 more or even 3 more summer league games is going to lessen the blow of all the money that has been paid....

                              the only way that investment will have any return is in the regular season...

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