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Thread: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

  1. #1
    foretaz
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    Default Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/sp.../17artest.html


    Artest Begins Long Way Back to Uncertainty


    By LIZ ROBBINS
    Published: July 17, 2005
    MINNEAPOLIS, July 16 - Silence, a few hands clapping and then the sound of a ball bouncing in the cavernous Target Center on Friday welcomed Ron Artest back for his first game in eight months.

    It was not much louder than when he was alone.

    Only two months earlier, when the Indiana Pacers' season had ended in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Detroit Pistons and the players were walking out of the arena for the summer, Artest was walking in to begin his season.

    At midnight on May 19, Artest was allowed back in the N.B.A., his six-month suspension for igniting the brawl at the Palace of Auburn Hills on Nov. 19 lifted. He took shots that night on the practice court at Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis, the same 3-pointer that swished again Friday.

    In uniform again alongside the Pacers' young players and journeymen in the Minnesota Summer League before barely 200 fans Friday, team employees and reporters, Artest seemed taken aback by the quiet. Perhaps people were holding their breath, wondering what might happen.

    "What did they want to see?" Artest said afterward with a sweetly sly smile, understanding his mixed image.

    Off the court, he is generous and gentle, defying the horror reels of the fight that have been continuously replayed since last November. On the court, you just never know. "Sometimes, I'm unpredictable," he said.

    On Friday, concluding a lost season spent on charity, workouts and parenting his four children, Artest was on the court looking as chiseled and intense as ever. Back wearing the No. 15 he had at St. John's, Artest scored 23 points in 35 minutes, his jumper smooth, even if his defensive timing was off. On Saturday, he scored 16 points in 27 minutes.

    The Minnesota fans were polite; beer sales were limited.

    It was a cup of beer thrown at Artest by a Pistons fan that enraged him and sent him rushing into the stands swinging on Nov. 19. N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern suspended Artest for the final 73 regular-season games and the playoffs.

    "Just one day, something happened," Artest said Friday. "It was just a decision by a higher power. You move on."

    Along the way, he learned what not to do. "Thinking first before reacting, that's real important," Artest said in an interview Friday night in the team hotel. "You use your mind, you get more accomplished in a better way. Next time, I'll be able to handle those situations better."

    Next time. Will there be a next time in Indiana?

    Donnie Walsh, the Pacers' chief executive and president, said teams had been calling every day for the past eight months wanting Artest. "We're not trading him," Walsh said.

    Larry Bird, the Pacers' president for basketball operations, agreed. "We know what we have in him," he said.

    That was not what two team executives in the Eastern Conference said last week, suggesting that for the right trade, Indiana would consider a deal. They requested anonymity because their teams had not discussed a trade.

    At four years and $29 million remaining on his contract, Artest is a bargain and a wild card. One of the top players in the league, the defensive player of the year in 2004, he has the talent and aggressiveness to change a game in an instant.

    Certainly, the arc of his career changed in an instant on Nov. 19. "I just know Ronnie missed the game so much - it's one thing in his life he truly loves, other than his family," Bird said. "This is his job. Any time you have something taken away from you, you miss it. We'll see how he reacts this year."

    Artest's volatility and competitiveness on the court belie his sensitivity off of it. He financially supports most of his family from Queens. His annual Queensbridge Projects basketball tournament, where he pays for nearly 600 campers, is this week.

    While doing sports television shows in Los Angeles last month, Artest visited the Dream Center, a mission to feed, educate and involve homeless children and adults, and he said he wanted to start a similar center in New York. In Los Angeles, he also took in a W.N.B.A. game, at which he saw an old friend from Queens, Chamique Holdsclaw, play for the Sparks. She recalled how she had routinely beaten "Ron-Ron" in one-on-one as teenagers.

    Traded in March from Washington, Holdsclaw did not have a replica Sparks jersey yet. "Ron went out and bought a white T-shirt and wrote my name on it with my number in big letters," Holdsclaw said. "That's Ron."

    Artest said: "I never gave people a chance to see another side, and right now I'm giving people a chance to know me. Everybody has different days and emotional roller coasters, that's just me.

    "I'm not trying to redo my image and please anybody. I'm going to continue to be myself, so I'm not trying to get Cheerio commercials or Coca-Cola commercials; I want to do a commercial in the hood."

    Besides keeping it real, Artest insists he will keep it under control next season, which will be his seventh in the league.

    "The game is too big, it's too strong to take away from me," he said. "The game loves me, and I love the game. No matter what happens, it'll be with me."

  2. #2
    Banned Jermaniac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Donnie Walsh, the Pacers' chief executive and president, said teams had been calling every day for the past eight months wanting Artest. "We're not trading him," Walsh said.

    Ohh I love it.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    The more I read what Larry has to say about Ron, the more I think he is his biggest fan.

    I guess we'll see if that is a good thing or not.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Good article. I am itching for the season to start...

  5. #5
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by SoupIsGood
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    The more I read what Larry has to say about Ron, the more I think he is his biggest fan.

    I guess we'll see if that is a good thing or not.
    watch it SIG...u r starting to quote me when u say larry appears to be rons biggest fan...

    it seems pretty simple really....because of everything that took place, bird and artest ended up spending alot of time together...and the result seems to be what we see with larrys comments regarding him....

    for all the concerns that everyone had with ron, the suspension provided the opportunity for bird to spend time with ron that under any other situation, he never could have....therefore all the questions that existed, he was able to answer and develop a very good feel for....

    i feel that there was a much greater chance of ron being traded, especially before the deadline, if not for the suspension and all the time that ron spent with bird....

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    You know... It wouldn't surprise a part of me to see JO traded and a deal (as part of or in addition to) worked to get some type of mentor presence brought into the lockerroom for Artest instead of someone like JO feuding with him. I'm not sure there is an answer with both JO and Artest on the same team, or an Artest trade for 'equal value' that could coexist with JO.

    I've resigned myself to believe JO makes the Pacers good... Artest makes them great.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  7. #7
    sweabs
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    You know... It wouldn't surprise a part of me to see JO traded and a deal (as part of or in addition to) worked to get some type of mentor presence brought into the lockerroom for Artest instead of someone like JO feuding with him.

    I've resigned myself to believe JO makes the Pacers good... Artest makes them great.

    -Bball
    I love your thinking.

    Although, I also believe that Artest makes JO great. But, if JO were traded, I'm sure Artest would make his replacement great as well.

  8. #8
    NotLosingButWinning
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    You know... It wouldn't surprise a part of me to see JO traded and a deal (as part of or in addition to) worked to get some type of mentor presence brought into the lockerroom for Artest instead of someone like JO feuding with him. I'm not sure there is an answer with both JO and Artest on the same team, or an Artest trade for 'equal value' that could coexist with JO.

    I've resigned myself to believe JO makes the Pacers good... Artest makes them great.

    -Bball

    how can you be sure that artest would be as effective without JO? artest has never had the pressure of being the main offensive and defensive threat and leading the team. sometimes i think fans take JO forgranted. Good offensive and defensive post players are hard to come by. I'm not sure I'd want to see him traded so that we can build around artest, someone who spent 73 games on the suspension list last season.

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    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    You know... It wouldn't surprise a part of me to see JO traded and a deal (as part of or in addition to) worked to get some type of mentor presence brought into the lockerroom for Artest instead of someone like JO feuding with him.

    I've resigned myself to believe JO makes the Pacers good... Artest makes them great.

    -Bball
    ill probably be accused of reading way too much into things....and that very well could be true...but based on the comments bird has made, i do wonder about a few things...

    bird said right after the season, in the season ending press conference that jo had to step up...that he had do more....and that he had a talk with jo and let him no what he expected of him and what all he needed to do....when asked about that further, bird said he though jo could do it, but that would be up to jo and we should know more when the players come back from the break....

    i said it then, and i feel even more convinced now based on what has been said regarding artest of late by bird.....i think bird, after spending so much time with ron, told jo that ron wasnt going anywhere....that both jo and ron needed each other to truly make this team great...and whatever personal feelings he had towards ron would need to be put behind him and it was up to jo, as the franchise player, to make sure he sets the example by making sure he was committed to the team and ron on that team....and if jo could do that, then fine....if not, then they would have to take a look at a different direction-quite possibly that direction being one that involves trading jo....remember something...jo makes alot of money....and with the luxury tax now imminent you cant really afford to have a player making that much money being a problem...even more so when ron is one of the best bargains in the league....bird probably told jo that rons not perfect, but hes the best teammate they will be able to get for the money, and jo needs to realize that and step up....

    otherwise, u could see a trade for kg....or....something that resembles the pistons formula a bit, trying to get a couple of super players in exchange for jo....if the pacers were to trade jo, they could probably get quite a bit in exchange...

    that being said, i like jo and respect him...and i think hes mature enuff to put the past in the past and realize that both he and ron are more mature now....just as bird seemed to indicate he thought jo would respond positively...

  10. #10
    Sontayjuan
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    every article on ron should be referred to as an "artesticle"

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    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Sontayjuan
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    every article on ron should be referred to as an "artesticle"


    Brilliant!!!


  12. #12
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    I have had that thought before, but I see Ronnie getting traded before I see JO getting traded.
    why?

  13. #13
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Just my personal opinion.

    From the casual fans point of view, they see JO as a player who they have watched grow up and who has carried his own.

    Ronnie has played well, when he is playing. But he has had many "incidents" and just when you think he cant do anything else that can hurt the team...........

    again, just my opinion...

    ok....now...ur big into the business side of things...as uve often stated....so consider these things...

    jo...for obvious reasons will always have incredible trade value....ur talking about a top 5 player who has pretty much everything u look for in a power post player....with the only possible exception being the passing ability-something that would be overlooked in a trade...any team that could get jo would be drooling over the possibility of doing so....

    artest on the other hand, his trade value is obviously clouded....there are far more teams that might be interested in him as the season progresses than some on here might like to admit....

    but think about this...what can u possibly get in return for artest?

    he is a perceived greater risk than most...but hes also locked in for the next 3 years at about 7 million a year....are u gonna be able to get a trade that betters ur team for 7 million worth of players in return? highly unlikely...damn near impossible....

    however, what kind of players could u get in return when u can take back between 16 and 20 million?

    thats a lot of salary.....if at least one of them was on a rookie contract you could very possibly get 3 great players....2 very easily....

    for instance....there are a number of players that might end up signing for the MLE or something close to it....say a stro smith, or shareef or the like....now....think about getting a guy like that along with a joe johnson or the like....the possibilities are much greater supply when u are looking at that many dollars....

    i love jo....and am in no way advocating trading him.....i think the pacers best chance is that he and ron take this team on their shoulders and i bleive they can take the pacers to multiple titles in the next few years....

    however if they are unable to come together, and jo feels he simply cant coexist with ron, then i think the likelihood of jo being traded is far greater than ron, IF BIRD IS CONVINCED RON CAN BE DEPENDED UPON, which it seems he might be....

    and it really comes down to the business side of it.....trade value and bettering the team...and it would appear the opportunity to better the team would be greater trading jo than ron...

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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    i love jo....and am in no way advocating trading him.....i think the pacers best chance is that he and ron take this team on their shoulders and i bleive they can take the pacers to multiple titles in the next few years....
    [/SIZE]

    I wish I could share your optimism. MULTIPLE Titles in the next FEW years. Wow.

    If Ron and JO can lead the Pacers to just 1 title, they immediately become the 2 best players in franchise HISTORY. They should build statues of them outside of the fieldhouse if they do.

    Fortaz, I share your love of Ron Artest's game. If Ron is playing with his head on straight, then there's no disputing that he is probably the best player in the NBA for such a small contract, excluding players that are on rookie contracts like Wade, Lebron, and Amare.

    It's just, I worry too much about Ron Artest blowing up. If he can go all of 05-06 without blowing up, then I will agree that he is a keeper for the long haul.

    I just want a championship for the Pacers. So much was made about winning 61 games in 03-04. I could care less about 61 games. 51 wins, 61 wins, what's it matter if you can't get to the finals and play for a shot at the title?

    In 03-04, we can say we won 61 games, Detroit can't say that. But Detroit can say they won the championship, which is all that matters.

    If and when the Pacers ever win the championship, I will worship the players that led us there.

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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    I've talked about this before, but you can believe that Holdscaw beat Ron one-on-one. She took his starting spot away from him on their AAU team.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy
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    I've talked about this before, but you can believe that Holdscaw beat Ron one-on-one. She took his starting spot away from him on their AAU team.
    cheryl beat reggie repeatedly....

    i think i like how that turned out....heres hoping ron turns out similar....

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by NotLosingButWinning
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    how can you be sure that artest would be as effective without JO? artest has never had the pressure of being the main offensive and defensive threat and leading the team. sometimes i think fans take JO forgranted. Good offensive and defensive post players are hard to come by. I'm not sure I'd want to see him traded so that we can build around artest, someone who spent 73 games on the suspension list last season.

    I was just thinking aloud so I don't expect me to have this all figured out. Obviously, I'm not convinced that you can trust Artest not to go postal at any point in the season. I suppose the odds are as good as ever that if anything is or could get thru to him that it would have to have been this past season. OTOH, if the best we could trade him for is something we could get for the NBA minimum, or just re-signing JJ, then we might as well just keep Artest and get that player as part of a backup plan.

    I also believe this past season exposed JO, the supposed cornerstone of the franchise for now and the future, as anything but that (at least currently). This team was BETTER (IMHO by a lot) with JO on the bench and Reggie, Sjax, DD, AJ...all manning the helm. They were a better team. We asked a lot of that group (and especially its senior citizens of Reggie and Dale) and guess what... they responded. I'm not convinced JO can respond when called on nor do I believe he is a player that makes his teammates better. If anything, he makes them worse. He is much farther from that goal than we had hoped. As someone said, Artest makes JO better.

    Part of JO's problem is that he isn't a good passer. How much of that is because he doesn't want to pass the ball!?

    If we were to trade JO I don't know that it would be to build around Artest as much as it would be to find a piece of the puzzle that could coexist and share the ball with Artest and teammates.

    JO could land a big fish or two in trade. Therefore, it wouldn't be the same as building around Artest. I don't think I can advocate building around Artest because of all the baggage. I do think Artest, and his intensity, makes others around him better.

    I'm guessing Artest still being here has as much to do with the team's losing some faith in JO as it does with believing Artest is past his 'problems'. Of course I am filtering that thru my own glasses... and that is someone who thinks JO has been exposed.

    -Bball
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  18. #18
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    think about this....

    if u were to trade jo and tinsley together....what could u get in return???

    think younger players....think some players on their rookie contracts....think draft choices...

    think along this line.....

    chris paul, magloire, pj brown, additional fodder and a number 1 pick or two...

    think about it....we are in a unique position for us...to have such a great player that alot of teams would give a left nut for....

    weve talked in terms of what we might have to give to get KG...and thats certainly one possibility as i mentioned....but think of what we have thought we might have to add to get KG...

    then forget about kg...and think in terms of other teams....and what they might give up...

    or marvin williams, joe johnson plus fodder plus draft choices....

    it might be interesting...remember we got jo for dale...dale was no where close to what jo is now....so think along that type of line as far as a trade would go....yes...u might end up with a team that resembles the pistons more than the traditional two star teams....but maybe not...it has been argued that ron is a top 5 or 10 talent....and he very well could be a 1st team all nba guy under different circumstances, who knows...and if u get one of these young guys that is getting ready to blossom, who knows....

  19. #19
    NotLosingButWinning
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I was just thinking aloud so I don't expect me to have this all figured out. Obviously, I'm not convinced that you can trust Artest not to go postal at any point in the season. I suppose the odds are as good as ever that if anything is or could get thru to him that it would have to have been this past season. OTOH, if the best we could trade him for is something we could get for the NBA minimum, or just re-signing JJ, then we might as well just keep Artest and get that player as part of a backup plan.

    I also believe this past season exposed JO, the supposed cornerstone of the franchise for now and the future, as anything but that (at least currently). This team was BETTER (IMHO by a lot) with JO on the bench and Reggie, Sjax, DD, AJ...all manning the helm. They were a better team. We asked a lot of that group (and especially its senior citizens of Reggie and Dale) and guess what... they responded. I'm not convinced JO can respond when called on nor do I believe he is a player that makes his teammates better. If anything, he makes them worse. He is much farther from that goal than we had hoped. As someone said, Artest makes JO better.

    Part of JO's problem is that he isn't a good passer. How much of that is because he doesn't want to pass the ball!?

    If we were to trade JO I don't know that it would be to build around Artest as much as it would be to find a piece of the puzzle that could coexist and share the ball with Artest and teammates.

    JO could land a big fish or two in trade. Therefore, it wouldn't be the same as building around Artest. I don't think I can advocate building around Artest because of all the baggage. I do think Artest, and his intensity, makes others around him better.

    I'm guessing Artest still being here has as much to do with the team's losing some faith in JO as it does with believing Artest is past his 'problems'. Of course I am filtering that thru my own glasses... and that is someone who thinks JO has been exposed.

    -Bball
    You make some very good and interesting points. Although the Pacers were a better "team" when JO was out they would have never made it past Boston or took the Pistons to 6 games w/o him. Winning without JO in the regular season is one thing but trying to do it in the playoffs would be near impossible. Unless the pacers traded him for someone who could be as effective in the post offesively and defensively but I don't know who that would be because the post players better than him don't look to be going anywhere. I don't think the offense needs to revolve around him like it normally does but the post threat needs to be there. I agree that JO doesn't know how to make his teammates better, but I don't think it's because he is a selfish player. I still think he can and will improve this part of his game. I often wonder how artest would have reacted and played if he was in the same situation JO was in this past season. Hopefully both JO and Artest have learned that they have to play together to be successful because I really think we need both of them to win a championship.

  20. #20
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Fox radio just reported Artest's name has come up in trade rumors for next week but they didn't elaborate. Something they said to be watching for next week.

    Old stuff... new stuff...?? Dunno...

    -Bball
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  21. #21
    NotLosingButWinning
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    I may be alone in seeing this, but I saw JO improve his passing skills last season.

    after his suspension it looked like he took a step back in the passing dept. but I saw an improvement in the playoffs, especially in game 7 against Boston.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    It was a cup of beer thrown at Artest by a Pistons fan that enraged him and sent him rushing into the stands swinging on Nov. 19. N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern suspended Artest for the final 73 regular-season games and the playoffs.
    it just irritates me when i see people continually making it seem as though ron rushed into the stands punching everybody in sight. these sorts of statements are the reason people have such a negative image towards artest. it may only be a couple of words but an image of an nba player running into the stands punching people sticks. it's very typical of the media to mislead its audiences and espn started this with the artest bashing, but please start getting the facts straight! artest DID NOT rush into the stands swinging. artest DOES NOT argue with the refs or get very many techs. artest RARELY trash talks out on the court. he only gets in trouble for playing too hard and sometimes not thinking out on the court. i'm sorry for getting so wound up over something so small, but i like to defend my players and i'm sick and tired of the misrepresentation the media places on not only nba players but on everything.

  23. #23
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan
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    Good point.

    He did have that 55 point game, and I will agree with you he was hesitant to pass the ball. Now wether that was because he felt like he had to take over games or if it was another reason, well never know.
    A couple of points I'd like to add...

    A: I wish JO had never had the 55 point game. I think it did for him what Al's 40 point game did for Al. (side note: Even with JO scoring 55 points the actual game was closer than the final score would indicate IIRC).

    B: JO did have a game in the playoffs where he showed he could pass the ball. OTOH, Jalen would occassionally play a game where he would show us he could play defense... when he wanted to.

    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    I'm with VA on this one, I remember thinking JO was improving as a passer. He will be alright when all the offensive pressure is taken off him next year.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Default Re: Article on Artest in NY Times-Good read

    or ?

    hmmmmmmm there's got to be something in between those. Isn't there?

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