View Poll Results: Who do the Pacers waive

Voters
80. You may not vote on this poll
  • Croshere

    45 56.25%
  • Bender

    16 20.00%
  • Another player

    1 1.25%
  • Nobody

    18 22.50%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 60

Thread: Croshere or Bender

  1. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,655

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Jay, I agree that no one really wants to dump Croshere. However, in doing so, I think they can easily sell to everyone, even Croshere himself, that better opportunities for minutes exist elsewhere.

    Unless we have another season from hell, Croshere just won’t be seeing many minutes this season. With a healthy Granger, Harrison and Foster, Croshere probably won’t see 10 minutes a game. And, if Bender is healthy and retained, Croshere will watch while the Pacers use whatever minutes are left over to evaluate Bender.

    The Pacers will NOT cut Reggie, not just because of the PR nightmare, but also because it really doesn’t gain them anything. All that will do is to postpone their luxury cap threshold problem until the following season. And then we will still be looking for some kind of a trade to dump Croshere and/or Bender to reduce our total salary. We can either take a step to resolve our problem now, or try to find some ingenious way to resolve it in another year, when the amnesty provision will most likely not be available to us.

    Foretaz, I think you are over-thinking the whole amnesty process. First of all, the idea that drove the process was a one-time benefit to teams to get their fannies back under the luxury tax threshold.

    Teams are going to waive a high-dollar player, not a $2M man. No other GM in this league in his right mind is going to claim an $8M bench player off of waivers and have to pay out his full salary. That sort of makes the process of clearing waivers a “moot point”, does it not?

    And since I doubt that the league is going to institute some kind of dispersal draft for these players, it seems almost certain that they are free and clear to negotiate with other teams. The league said that the amnesty waiver would be a win-win situation for all concerned, so they are not going to establish some kind of a pecking order in teams’ rights to re-sign these players… and they are not going to restrict what these players can earn on their new contracts because that would be treating them differently, and worse I might add, than “normal” free agents.

  2. #27
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northside Bias
    Posts
    12,960

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Slaughter
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Kegboy

    Sorry about not making this public.
    That's okay. I still say we should make the default "public", and the poster can make it anonymous if they want, not the other way around.

    As I said Saturday, we should cut Austin, as much for his sake as for ours. We will cut nobody, because Donnie can't admit he screwed up.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  3. #28
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.

  4. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,655

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.
    Bender. He's got to do something to earn his money. Besides, he'll be well rested and should be able to easily catch Rick.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bender. He's got to do something to earn his money. Besides, he'll be well rested and should be able to easily catch Rick.
    Not Bender either. We wouldn't want him to injury that glass like knee even more.

    Maybe we will re-sign John Edwards have give him this job.

  6. #31
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Crawfordsville
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,175
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    I stated at the party that it would be a tragic event if they cut Croshere. Has there ever been a player who has put up with as much crap and remained a constant professional?

    Bender deserves to be cut, in addition to several reasons (lack of any fundamental skills), look no further than his leaving the summer league.

    If you haven't played basketball for 2 years with the Indiana Pacers and you were finally healthy would you not play as much as possible to prove that you could?

    I believe it was Roaming Gnome who said that "In the Pacers darkest hour, Jon Bender couldn't even suit up and play five minutes to give someone else a breather."

    Yet it was Croshere who was the brighest remaining light of hope in that darkest hour, with several injuries, and we're questioning who to cut?

    Austin Croshere deserves better than that, and the only way he should be waived is if by his request.
    House Name: Pacers

    House Sigil:



    House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

  7. #32
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.
    LMAO!

  8. #33
    Cheeseburger in Paradise Los Angeles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Venice, CA
    Posts
    9,690

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I stated at the party that it would be a tragic event if they cut Croshere. Has there ever been a player who has put up with as much crap and remained a constant professional?

    Bender deserves to be cut, in addition to several reasons (lack of any fundamental skills), look no further than his leaving the summer league.

    If you haven't played basketball for 2 years with the Indiana Pacers and you were finally healthy would you not play as much as possible to prove that you could?

    I believe it was Roaming Gnome who said that "In the Pacers darkest hour, Jon Bender couldn't even suit up and play five minutes to give someone else a breather."

    Yet it was Croshere who was the brighest remaining light of hope in that darkest hour, with several injuries, and we're questioning who to cut?

    Austin Croshere deserves better than that, and the only way he should be waived is if by his request.
    This is a good post.

  9. #34
    woman without a team
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,055

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.
    David Craig. Oh wait, he was "promoted" to the front office.

  10. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,655

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I stated at the party that it would be a tragic event if they cut Croshere. Has there ever been a player who has put up with as much crap and remained a constant professional?

    Bender deserves to be cut, in addition to several reasons (lack of any fundamental skills), look no further than his leaving the summer league.

    If you haven't played basketball for 2 years with the Indiana Pacers and you were finally healthy would you not play as much as possible to prove that you could?

    I believe it was Roaming Gnome who said that "In the Pacers darkest hour, Jon Bender couldn't even suit up and play five minutes to give someone else a breather."

    Yet it was Croshere who was the brighest remaining light of hope in that darkest hour, with several injuries, and we're questioning who to cut?

    Austin Croshere deserves better than that, and the only way he should be waived is if by his request.
    From strictly a perspective of sentiment, I agree totally with what you have stated. I RESPECT Croshere's professionalism more than perhaps any other player in the league.

    But, business is business.

    If the Pacers want to have a chance of significantly improving the roster either this year, by the trade deadline, or next year, then I think the first logical move is to reduce the salary by getting rid of Croshere.

    The second move would be to force Bender's retirement due to his inabilty to play due to medical reasons. That would probably result in some sort of roster exemption that could be used.

    Those two moves would reduce the total salary by $16M, well under the luxury tax threshold.

    Hopefully this season, Pollard's $6M+ expiring contract, maybe along with whatever exemption resulted from the Bender situation, could be used to acquire a rotational player.

    And next summer, maybe the full value of the MLE could then be used to acquire a decent player.

    If we can somehow dump both Croshere and Bender, we would be able to acquire a couple of good players and still remain under the luxury tax threshold, whatever it will be under the new CBA.

  11. #36
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Crawfordsville
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,175
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    From strictly a perspective of sentiment, I agree totally with what you have stated. I RESPECT Croshere's professionalism more than perhaps any other player in the league.

    But, business is business.

    If the Pacers want to have a chance of significantly improving the roster either this year, by the trade deadline, or next year, then I think the first logical move is to reduce the salary by getting rid of Croshere.

    The second move would be to force Bender's retirement due to his inabilty to play due to medical reasons. That would probably result in some sort of roster exemption that could be used.

    Those two moves would reduce the total salary by $16M, well under the luxury tax threshold.

    Hopefully this season, Pollard's $6M+ expiring contract, maybe along with whatever exemption resulted from the Bender situation, could be used to acquire a rotational player.

    And next summer, maybe the full value of the MLE could then be used to acquire a decent player.

    If we can somehow dump both Croshere and Bender, we would be able to acquire a couple of good players and still remain under the luxury tax threshold, whatever it will be under the new CBA.
    See, I honestly don't care about the cap. Historically the Pacers do NOT sign any big name, or medium name, free agents. So why is it important to be under the cap? I understand it allows for more trade possibilities, however I think the Pacers are pretty stuck as far as that goes. We have alot of untradable players due to contracts and not being able to get equal value in return.

    So if I don't care about the cap, and I don't think we'll make any trades, then why do I not want to keep both you might be asking yourself.

    Because it sends a message. It says that the Pacers appreciate consumate professionalism, and playing with injuries. It tells Jamal Tinsley that he needs to make sure that he stays in shape. It tells Jackson that his hot-headedness will not fly. It tells each and every player that you better be ready to go at a moments notice. Because thats what Austin Croshere does, and even though he is grossly overpaid, he will have a spot on this squad.

    LONG LIVE THE MILKDRINKERS!!!!!
    House Name: Pacers

    House Sigil:



    House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

  12. #37
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,655

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    If I were in charge, I assure you I would take exactly the actions you suggest. And for exactly the same reasons as you have stated.

    But, neither of us are in charge. I really do think the Pacers will relese Croshere.

    Unfortunately, I don't think they will release Bender. They somehow still seem to be infatuated by his "potential". The only way Bender goes is if he just can't play period and finally gives it up. And I think that is truly sad... I've been trying to unload him for a case of Doritos to KStat for about two years now.

  13. #38
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Crawfordsville
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,175
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If I were in charge, I assure you I would take exactly the actions you suggest. And for exactly the same reasons as you have stated.

    But, neither of us are in charge. I really do think the Pacers will relese Croshere.

    Unfortunately, I don't think they will release Bender. They somehow still seem to be infatuated by his "potential". The only way Bender goes is if he just can't play period and finally gives it up. And I think that is truly sad... I've been trying to unload him for a case of Doritos to KStat for about two years now.
    IMO, the only way Donnie lets Cro go is if Cro asks for it. Same with Bird. Remember he was Bird's first draft pick.

    But I don't think Cro will, I don't think we'll release anyone.
    House Name: Pacers

    House Sigil:



    House Words: "We Kneel To No King"

  14. #39
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,699

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    All these sentimental reasons are beautiful, truly, and I'll subscribe to them to, however.....

    DW & LB are running a multi million dollar business, money lost is bad enough as it is and if you are going to influenceyour bottomline because of sentiments, you have found the exact right way to losing money big time.

    Look for reason: cutting Cros saves close to 20 million dollar over two years.
    That is 10 million on the bottom line in each year.

    Add to that the fact that the likelyhood we would fetch anything for him in a trade is zero, while JB might fetch something, there's more out there that still believe in the P word.
    Add to that the investement in JB, outrageous amounts for no return, if he is unable to play, he can ALREADY be dumped on permanent injury waivers, which is straight of the cap and an exception for the same amount.
    Finally there's the odd chance he gest healthy and actually starts contributing, now we are taking a risk that he will amass to more then Cro.

    Bottomline is I am sorry for Cro, but on the other hand, I will offer the P's to fire me instead and give me just 10% of his salary over the next two year.

    I.e. he is suitably compensated.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  15. #40
    foretaz
    Guest

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by able
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    All these sentimental reasons are beautiful, truly, and I'll subscribe to them to, however.....

    DW & LB are running a multi million dollar business, money lost is bad enough as it is and if you are going to influenceyour bottomline because of sentiments, you have found the exact right way to losing money big time.

    Look for reason: cutting Cros saves close to 20 million dollar over two years.
    That is 10 million on the bottom line in each year.

    Add to that the fact that the likelyhood we would fetch anything for him in a trade is zero, while JB might fetch something, there's more out there that still believe in the P word.
    Add to that the investement in JB, outrageous amounts for no return, if he is unable to play, he can ALREADY be dumped on permanent injury waivers, which is straight of the cap and an exception for the same amount.
    Finally there's the odd chance he gest healthy and actually starts contributing, now we are taking a risk that he will amass to more then Cro.

    Bottomline is I am sorry for Cro, but on the other hand, I will offer the P's to fire me instead and give me just 10% of his salary over the next two year.

    I.e. he is suitably compensated.

  16. #41
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,099

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    I am following this thread and see some of you breaking this down into pure business models. IF the team was ran that cold and things strictly done on pure business, and the resulting bottom line, then we wouldn't be this far over the cap in the first place (IMHO).

    Therefore, I say it's hard to speculate how the team will use this amnesty opportunity... and it wouldn't totally surprise me to see it not used at all.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  17. #42
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,699

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Bball, I remember a LOT of posts biatching about hte Simons and DW for "not going over the cap to get the team over the hump".

    "Cheap" a lot of people called the organization.

    And now that we are threatening of having the 3rd higest payroll in the league you think they wll not save money along the line?

    You do realize that if we move on like this we will only have the Knicks ahead of us in payroll.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  18. #43
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    8,699

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    moauh, Im getting old that's old: geezeritis
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

    If you've done 6 impossible things today?
    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  19. #44
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,099

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by able
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bball, I remember a LOT of posts biatching about hte Simons and DW for "not going over the cap to get the team over the hump".

    "Cheap" a lot of people called the organization.

    And now that we are threatening of having the 3rd higest payroll in the league you think they wll not save money along the line?

    You do realize that if we move on like this we will only have the Knicks ahead of us in payroll.

    Most posts I remember were about the allocation of the funds... not the team being cheap. That certain high dollar BAD contracts had painted the team into a corner and now all of a sudden they were unable or unwilling to do what was needed to get over the hump.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  20. #45
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,616

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Question.....is Donnie/Simons still able to back out of the offer to pay Reggie for one more year?

    Although its a nice gesture....Reggie is clearly not going to play again. I'm confused. Since Reggie still has a contract for another year but is retiring....would his salary count for another year against the cap?

    or

    Is it only counting against the cap since Reggie is retiring BUT the Donnie/Simons chose to pay him for the year despite him not playing?

  21. #46
    Member CableKC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA ( 1123, 6536, 5321 )
    Age
    41
    Posts
    24,616

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    I chose Croshere. I know what we have in Croshere.....I still hope that we still have something in Bender. However, I am seeing what some of you are suggesting about not waiving anyone and to simply use their huge@ss contracts as expiring contracts to attract a Big trade next season....which maybe alluring.

    If it had to be done for this season...waive Croshere and see what Bender can do for another year. If he craps out again...then trade him after this season before the trade deadline.

  22. #47
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    20,099

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I chose Croshere. I know what we have in Croshere.....I still hope that we still have something in Bender. However, I am seeing what some of you are suggesting about not waiving anyone and to simply use their huge@ss contracts as expiring contracts to attract a Big trade next season....which maybe alluring.

    If it had to be done for this season...waive Croshere and see what Bender can do for another year. If he craps out again...then trade him after this season before the trade deadline.
    Here's the issue... I believe we actually know what we have in Bender as well... it's just that few want to admit it or are blind to it.


    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  23. #48
    How are you here? Kegboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northside Bias
    Posts
    12,960

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.
    Ron.

    And yes, I'm being completely serious, for those of you who haven't seen how many times he's holding guys back. Cro just gets to Rick first because he's always on the bench, hence he's closer.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

  24. #49
    Nude Poster Shack80's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    326

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    I say nobody, because it is not my money that the luxury tax hits and I don't see how it helps us competitively. I really don't have a strong understanding of the bizarre salary cap in the NBA so that may be wrong. Austin has his moments and would be a much better player if he could get more minutes I think, never going to happen with the pacers though. Bender concerns me if we cut him, he will turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread if we do, but if we don't he will never do anything. If only his knees could stay healthy.

  25. #50
    foretaz
    Guest

    Default Re: Croshere or Bender

    u know, theres is one other angle on this, that hasnt really been discussed much.....

    where the released player ends up....and how that could possibly affect whos released....

    for instance, anyone think detroit, miami, or new jersey might be interested in croshere if hes released???? i think they might....in fact miami and nj would probably love to have austin, especially at the minimum.....

    now while i believe austin would be inclined to head back home to cali, this sort of thing probably warrants a little bit of consideration....fact of the matter is, he would be a pretty decent fit in miami and nj as a backup 4....

    on the other hand, where would bender end up??? thats probably a loaded question...new orleans is the obvious choice...and im sure many on here would argue bender would be much less likely to hurt us versus how austin could possibly hurt us if he were to go to miami or nj....

    either way, it does make this amnesty provision just a wee bit more interesting...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •