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Croshere or Bender

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  • #16
    Re: Croshere or Bender

    The Pacers definitely will do something. Bird publicly stated that the Pacers were limited in what they could do with free agents because they weren't allowed to carry salaries that might cause them to pay the luxury tax.

    I think the Pacers will waive Croshere. His is the largest salary of a player that could be released.

    By waiving Croshere first, they even have a chance of further shedding salary in the event that Bender's recovery is premature and he chooses to retire due to his medical problems. That's probably not going to happen, but what the heck... it's my post right? And a fellow can dream. I figure Bender is untradeable, so I have to dream up some loony scenario to get rid of him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Croshere or Bender

      Originally posted by fooddaman
      I'm pretty sure with the new CBA that the one time waiver player will sign a new contract with another team, while the old team still pays for the old contract. Therefore, there could not be any trade value to Reggie's current deal.

      IMHO, I don't think they waive Reggie, just the idea of that doesn't sound right, does it? I understand it would be for LT reasons, but still...

      IMHO, Croshere is the one to go, with 2 years still on his contract and with Granger signed, I believe he will be the odd man out. The pacers feel they have invested too much into Bender at this point to simply waive him. IF they do anything with Bender, it would be with a trade to get something in return.
      I thought if a player cleared waivers he was basically the same as a free agent and could sign with anybody for whatever he wanted while his old team was still on the hook for the balance. OTOH, if he was claimed off waivers (before a set period of time expired) then his new team was assuming the existing contract. Therefore (assuming you could trade a player immediately after claiming them from waivers) a team could take Reggie and then trade him to a team wanting salary relief.

      My point being, if that type of scenario is correct, there could be some sticky situations arise IF Reggie was expecting 6 mil this year from the Pacers as part of a handshake deal. Plus he'd then be expected to retire 'officially' (file the papers) from a team other than the Pacers.

      I doubt anyone would claim Reggie from the waiver wire BUT especially if there were some backdoor shenanigans going on with his contract it might not be a gamble the team would want to take. It might not even be a gamble they'd want to take for PR reasons of Reggie being a Pacer his entire career.


      -Bball
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Croshere or Bender

        Originally posted by Bball
        I thought if a player cleared waivers he was basically the same as a free agent and could sign with anybody for whatever he wanted while his old team was still on the hook for the balance. OTOH, if he was claimed off waivers (before a set period of time expired) then his new team was assuming the existing contract. Therefore (assuming you could trade a player immediately after claiming them from waivers) a team could take Reggie and then trade him to a team wanting salary relief.

        My point being, if that type of scenario is correct, there could be some sticky situations arise IF Reggie was expecting 6 mil this year from the Pacers as part of a handshake deal. Plus he'd then be expected to retire 'officially' (file the papers) from a team other than the Pacers.

        I doubt anyone would claim Reggie from the waiver wire BUT especially if there were some backdoor shenanigans going on with his contract it might not be a gamble the team would want to take. It might not even be a gamble they'd want to take for PR reasons of Reggie being a Pacer his entire career.


        -Bball
        as weve discussed before....until the final cba is ratified and all the details are released we wont know exactly how things work...

        but keep in mind this amnesty provision is something new...

        and more than likely will have its own parameters....and it will probably be a combination of waiving a player, an outright cutting of a player, and a player whose contract expires....

        i would be surprised if the normal waiver procedure is used...meaning they have to clear waivers....i dont think the players association would have ever agreed to that....

        it would seem when these players are released, they are instantly free agents...meaning they may then choose to play for whomever they please...

        to me , the big question is with regard to compensation with regard these players...

        are they free agents, free to go to the highest bidder???

        if so, is there any limit of how high this bidding can go?

        if so, how does this amount affect the previous team?? their cap situation??

        or will the compensation be a set amount (vet min for example)??

        if so, how is the previous team affected(im guessing in no way)??

        does the player collect his whole salary from the previous team plus the vet min from new team? (im guessing this is the most likely scenario)

        is there a new compensation scenario for these players....

        it would certainly seem that these players would have some options, if they are indeed released.....the question is do they have more options than just choosing the team they want to play for....by using the waiver system that is currently in place, it is feasible that these players would be forced to play for someone they dont want to-which is why i dont believe there is anyway that will be utilized....

        the players will become free agents....with the only real question being what kind of compensation they are entitled to by their new team and how that affects the previous team....

        which means, in reggies case, he could be waived under this new provision, and continue to be paid by the pacers, and unless he chose to play somewhere else, there would be nothing more to it....with one small exception, he wouldnt be able to return this coming season, as some have discussed-though not likely anyway...

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Croshere or Bender

          I still think Rick would go ape-**** if Croshere is cut. He might be the only "coachable" guy on this team.

          Who did Rick bring with him to the press conference after the suspensions last season? Austin and Reggie.

          Since Foster needed a second surgery on his hip, pardon me for not immediately buying into the company line that "all will be fine come training camp." Croshere could still be a valuable reserve for this team at two positions.
          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
          And life itself, rushing over me
          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Croshere or Bender

            Originally posted by foretaz
            as weve discussed before....until the final cba is ratified and all the details are released we wont know exactly how things work...

            but keep in mind this amnesty provision is something new...

            and more than likely will have its own parameters....and it will probably be a combination of waiving a player, an outright cutting of a player, and a player whose contract expires....

            i would be surprised if the normal waiver procedure is used...meaning they have to clear waivers....i dont think the players association would have ever agreed to that....
            ...which all underscores my point... There may be a lot of variables involved that would make Reggie not an attractive option to be the one released under this amnesty program.

            It all depends on how it shakes out.

            With Cro and Bender it would be a straighforward choice. With Reggie you have to consider other implications which could include any wink and nod agreements they had about this year's salary plus if the new system could create any PR difficulties for Reggie officially retiring as a Pacer.

            -Bball
            Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

            ------

            "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

            -John Wooden

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Croshere or Bender

              Originally posted by Bball
              ...which all underscores my point... There may be a lot of variables involved that would make Reggie not an attractive option to be the one released under this amnesty program.

              It all depends on how it shakes out.

              With Cro and Bender it would be a straighforward choice. With Reggie you have to consider other implications which could include any wink and nod agreements they had about this year's salary plus if the new system could create any PR difficulties for Reggie officially retiring as a Pacer.

              -Bball

              and thankfully we should have those details in the not so distant future...however odds are, if the pacers are going to release a player, it might be quite some time before they do so....meaning we will be in suspense for a while longer...and can have these discussions for months to come, only with more of the parameters in place....

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Croshere or Bender

                Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                Who did Rick bring with him to the press conference after the suspensions last season? Austin and Reggie.
                Dude, at the time we only had 6 people on the team.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Croshere or Bender

                  Originally posted by grace
                  Dude, at the time we only had 6 people on the team.

                  Well, true. Reggie wasn't even "on the team" for that matter.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Croshere or Bender

                    Originally posted by grace
                    Dude, at the time we only had 6 people on the team.
                    Austin was a team captain btw, either at that point or shortly after.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Croshere or Bender

                      Originally posted by rabidpacersfan
                      Austin was a team captain btw, either at that point or shortly after.
                      That's my point. Nobody in the organization wants to "get rid" of Croshere. They may decide to make a financial decision and let him go, and they undoubtedly they wish, as an organization, they were paying him less. But he's still a contributor with both his basketball abilities (when healthy, in the right role), and most importantly, with all the intangibles (coachable, gets along well with his teammates, willing to play hurt, doesn't complain about his role, always a winner, tends to step up when the pressure is on, etc.)
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Croshere or Bender

                        Jay, I agree that no one really wants to dump Croshere. However, in doing so, I think they can easily sell to everyone, even Croshere himself, that better opportunities for minutes exist elsewhere.

                        Unless we have another season from hell, Croshere just won’t be seeing many minutes this season. With a healthy Granger, Harrison and Foster, Croshere probably won’t see 10 minutes a game. And, if Bender is healthy and retained, Croshere will watch while the Pacers use whatever minutes are left over to evaluate Bender.

                        The Pacers will NOT cut Reggie, not just because of the PR nightmare, but also because it really doesn’t gain them anything. All that will do is to postpone their luxury cap threshold problem until the following season. And then we will still be looking for some kind of a trade to dump Croshere and/or Bender to reduce our total salary. We can either take a step to resolve our problem now, or try to find some ingenious way to resolve it in another year, when the amnesty provision will most likely not be available to us.

                        Foretaz, I think you are over-thinking the whole amnesty process. First of all, the idea that drove the process was a one-time benefit to teams to get their fannies back under the luxury tax threshold.

                        Teams are going to waive a high-dollar player, not a $2M man. No other GM in this league in his right mind is going to claim an $8M bench player off of waivers and have to pay out his full salary. That sort of makes the process of clearing waivers a “moot point”, does it not?

                        And since I doubt that the league is going to institute some kind of dispersal draft for these players, it seems almost certain that they are free and clear to negotiate with other teams. The league said that the amnesty waiver would be a win-win situation for all concerned, so they are not going to establish some kind of a pecking order in teams’ rights to re-sign these players… and they are not going to restrict what these players can earn on their new contracts because that would be treating them differently, and worse I might add, than “normal” free agents.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Croshere or Bender

                          Originally posted by Jose Slaughter
                          Kegboy

                          Sorry about not making this public.
                          That's okay. I still say we should make the default "public", and the poster can make it anonymous if they want, not the other way around.

                          As I said Saturday, we should cut Austin, as much for his sake as for ours. We will cut nobody, because Donnie can't admit he screwed up.
                          Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Croshere or Bender

                            If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Croshere or Bender

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck
                              If Cro is cut who will grab Carlisle when he goes after the refs.
                              Bender. He's got to do something to earn his money. Besides, he'll be well rested and should be able to easily catch Rick.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Croshere or Bender

                                Originally posted by beast23
                                Bender. He's got to do something to earn his money. Besides, he'll be well rested and should be able to easily catch Rick.
                                Not Bender either. We wouldn't want him to injury that glass like knee even more.

                                Maybe we will re-sign John Edwards have give him this job.

                                Comment

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