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Thread: Reggie on ESPN Radio

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan
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    This sounds to me like another form of "I can't read purple anymore."

    He wasn't parsing "is." He was making some decent points. As I mentioned above, Ron may not be the only one has a problem admitting he is wrong sometimes.

    It's really not very hard. Just say, "Good point. Hadn't though of that. You may be right, I may be wrong. I'll give it some thought." Fortaz may not make it very easy with his strong denunciations, but others of you have posted on here too long, too well. You're big enough to rise above it.
    Just to be clear...
    Originally Posted by Bball
    I have no time to reply to this post properly but from what I read above it seems like you are saying "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is..."
    ...meant exactly what it said. I didn't mean "I have no more time for this" or "this is no longer worth my time". It meant I had some place to be and had no time left to fully read and reply to the posting(s).


    -Bball
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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    denying this to the press is obviously saying he has no desire to share his personal and private life with the whole world...
    This is a point we differ on. I don't think it is 'obvious' at all what it says and that's what I've been trying to say. It could say a lot of things. You've chosen to attach your opinion to what it says and prefer to believe that and apparently only that. That is fine but I've not seen enough evidence to make me believe that is the only possible scenario and you've been less than convincing. You've convinced me that YOU believe that... and you've convinced me it is a POSSIBILITY but you've said nothing to close the door on any other speculation at all. And that is all this is on both sides of the aisle- speculation.

    I certainly don't think denying it was the best course of action... I've already said there were several things he could have said without lying and without talking about the therapy that would've been WAY more obvious he was telling the press it was out of bounds.

    It's my opinion that if the therapy was making inroads Ron wouldn't be inclined to deny it. So it worries me a little. Deal with it. It doesn't worry you at all... fine by me. ...Just don't pretend your speculation or opinion is any more valid than mine just because you've made up your mind and are apparently happy with it. When it comes to Artest I am choosing to hope for the best but expect the worst. I like being pleasantly surprised rather than than sadly disappointed.

    he is only one of the more recent in an unbelievably long list of public figures to do this...thats what public people do....they deny it...because its noones business....and denial is short, sweet and the least telling....

    now....do u believe hes been in therapy??

    if u do, then its obvious hes not in denial...u cant do both....

    so if u believe that, then whats the problem????
    The problem is he lied and said he wasn't in therapy. I'm taking what he said at face value and know it's a lie. Those are apparent facts as backed up by Reggie Miller on natl radio. The rest of what we are talking about is pure speculation and that is alright by me on a discussion board.

    .they deny it...because its noones business....and denial is short, sweet and the least telling....
    That's one list of possibilities... It's not the only ones tho. I'm not even sure it is the best ones. Regardless of how those tip the scales they aren't the only real possibilities.

    But, one last time, I happen to believe if the therapy was making inroads then Artest would have less of a problem admitting to the therapy.. or at least not denying it. Nobody is asking or expecting details.

    -Bball
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    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86
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    Why does denying actual therapy frighten you? He has admitted numerous times before, that he has a problem that needs to be worked on. If he works on them in his own way, and the results are yet to been seen, then how are you able to discredit them already? If he kept denying he had any sort of problem at all, I can understand where you're coming from, but that's not the case.
    I am not discrediting them already. I am anxiously awaiting the results. I've just chosen not to see only the rosy side of the picture in all this speculation. I'm NOT arguing foretaz is wrong. I am arguing that his view is not the only possible view on the subject and that disagreeing with him doesn't make the other party a fool.

    I just believe flat out denying the therapy COULD be saying something that throws a wet blanket on the Artest return and all our hopes.

    I continue to hope for the best and expect the worst. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than disappointed.

    I don't know Artest's motive for lying about the therapy. I can't read minds. I can only speculate which is all any of us can do in this circumstance. Foretaz is claiming it is 'obvious' what this lying means and I dispute that. That is the crux of why I am beating my head against the wall in this thread. I'm saying nothing in it is 'obvious'. ....especially when it comes to Artest.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    and quite frankly, if ur writing a check to PS&E is based on them being able to contend for a title...then i could care a less if u wrote that check or not...whether its the case or not it seems to say if they dont contend, then ur not going to write the check.....u can figure out the rest....

    and btw....they still finished in the top 8 last year....and if ur 'writing the check' is dependent on whether ron tells the whole world something the whole world should already know....well like i said....maybe u should save the cash...
    Thanks for telling me how to be a proper fan. It is much appreciated.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  5. #80
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    This is a point we differ on. I don't think it is 'obvious' at all what it says and that's what I've been trying to say. It could say a lot of things. You've chosen to attach your opinion to what it says and prefer to believe that and apparently only that. That is fine but I've not seen enough evidence to make me believe that is the only possible scenario and you've been less than convincing. You've convinced me that YOU believe that... and you've convinced me it is a POSSIBILITY but you've said nothing to close the door on any other speculation at all. And that is all this is on both sides of the aisle- speculation.

    I certainly don't think denying it was the best course of action... I've already said there were several things he could have said without lying and without talking about the therapy that would've been WAY more obvious he was telling the press it was out of bounds.

    It's my opinion that if the therapy was making inroads Ron wouldn't be inclined to deny it. So it worries me a little. Deal with it. It doesn't worry you at all... fine by me. ...Just don't pretend your speculation or opinion is any more valid than mine just because you've made up your mind and are apparently happy with it. When it comes to Artest I am choosing to hope for the best but expect the worst. I like being pleasantly surprised rather than than sadly disappointed.



    The problem is he lied and said he wasn't in therapy. I'm taking what he said at face value and know it's a lie. Those are apparent facts as backed up by Reggie Miller on natl radio. The rest of what we are talking about is pure speculation and that is alright by me on a discussion board.



    That's one list of possibilities... It's not the only ones tho. I'm not even sure it is the best ones. Regardless of how those tip the scales they aren't the only real possibilities.

    But, one last time, I happen to believe if the therapy was making inroads then Artest would have less of a problem admitting to the therapy.. or at least not denying it. Nobody is asking or expecting details.

    -Bball

    so what ur really saying is this...u believe hes in therapy....

    you just have a problem with him denying it...

    and you have a problem with him lying about it....

    ok...very simple....do u think hes denying it with the pacers brass???

    is he denying it with his teammates? reggie says no...

    is he denying it with the nba??? obviously not....

    so really what this keeps coming back to is one thing....that he refuses to admit it to the whole world....

    do u think its reasonable to assume, that in his therapy it has been discussed as to how he handles these types of situations, since its obvious it would come up????

    do u think any therapist in the world would tell him he should broadcast the fact that hes going to therapy to literally the whole world????

    so once again, just because a fan doesnt like the fact that a player or public figure refuses to disclose personal and private info, he says this is somehow evidence that ron still has issues, because hes obviously not doing things the right way....well my friend, the right way is not the right way....its ur way....and when do u get it? do u think this issue caught everyone off guard??? do u think they were stunned they were asked this question????...hardly....the pacers brass, the nba, and the people responsible for his therapy and him improving himself all came to agreement that this is the best way to handle it....im sorry you or anyone else that disagrees werent involved in that decision...

    funny thing is, if u were ron....u would do the exact same thing....because everyone else in the world does...ill ask it again....how many times have u seen a public figure come out and admit they are in therapy....now....how many of them do u believe are in therapy????

    this isnt about my take or opinion on the situation....this is about a whole slew of facts....and the facts usually point to one obvious conclusion, especially when there are so many facts that are actually known....

    when u choose to disagree as u have, it means u disagree with facts that really arent in question....so in other words ur denying the obvious...and i really dont know what to tell u in that regard....

    yes...in the end people can believe what they want to believe, even if the facts say otherwise....really....it appears ron is not the one with the real denial problem?????

  6. #81
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Thanks for telling me how to be a proper fan. It is much appreciated.

    -Bball

    noone told u how to do anything....however dont be mad at me for pointing out the obvious....dont be mad at the pacers because they cant provide u with the guarantees that seemingly are so important to u...

    sports doesnt work that way....and many wish they did....and if its a prerequisite then im just saying u might want to save a little cash and heartbreak...

    you say u hope for the best and expect the worst...well if thats the case then it should not be a problem writing that check....obviously that philosophy doesnt go along with the one that u indicated u use when writing the check....seems that might be the biggest problem...

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    so what ur really saying is this...u believe hes in therapy....

    you just have a problem with him denying it...

    and you have a problem with him lying about it....

    ok...very simple....do u think hes denying it with the pacers brass???

    is he denying it with his teammates? reggie says no...

    is he denying it with the nba??? obviously not....

    so really what this keeps coming back to is one thing....that he refuses to admit it to the whole world....

    do u think its reasonable to assume, that in his therapy it has been discussed as to how he handles these types of situations, since its obvious it would come up????

    do u think any therapist in the world would tell him he should broadcast the fact that hes going to therapy to literally the whole world????

    so once again, just because a fan doesnt like the fact that a player or public figure refuses to disclose personal and private info, he says this is somehow evidence that ron still has issues, because hes obviously not doing things the right way....well my friend, the right way is not the right way....its ur way....and when do u get it? do u think this issue caught everyone off guard??? do u think they were stunned they were asked this question????...hardly....the pacers brass, the nba, and the people responsible for his therapy and him improving himself all came to agreement that this is the best way to handle it....im sorry you or anyone else that disagrees werent involved in that decision...

    funny thing is, if u were ron....u would do the exact same thing....because everyone else in the world does...ill ask it again....how many times have u seen a public figure come out and admit they are in therapy....now....how many of them do u believe are in therapy????

    this isnt about my take or opinion on the situation....this is about a whole slew of facts....and the facts usually point to one obvious conclusion, especially when there are so many facts that are actually known....

    when u choose to disagree as u have, it means u disagree with facts that really arent in question....so in other words ur denying the obvious...and i really dont know what to tell u in that regard....

    yes...in the end people can believe what they want to believe, even if the facts say otherwise....really....it appears ron is not the one with the real denial problem?????

    You can say a lot without really saying anything at all. I've already spoken to all of this. I'll boil it down tho.

    Your 'facts' aren't -all- 'facts' at all but rather your speculation on the subject. Calling these facts may make you feel more secure in your position(s)... but doesn't change a thing.

    My problem with Artest's denial is that I feel there were better answers and if he was getting anything from the therapy (and everything else he's supposedly doing) then he would've likely used a better answer. Especially since he's had the question more than once and denied it everytime. It's not like he should've been taken by surprise.

    Not only do you tell us all what Ron is thinking and why is he doing what he does but you also have the ability to tell me what I'd do? Climb down off the high horse and join reality.

    I'm not saying you are wrong... I am saying there are alternate answers here and you can't possibly KNOW your's are the correct ones unless you have a pipeline to Artest.

    ----

    I'll sum this up even better for you:
    You have a THEORY about why Ron lied about being in therapy. A theory. Not facts. Not the final answer. A theory.

    I admit your theory could be correct. It also could be wrong. Too bad you can't admit the same thing.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    noone told u how to do anything....however dont be mad at me for pointing out the obvious....dont be mad at the pacers because they cant provide u with the guarantees that seemingly are so important to u...

    sports doesnt work that way....and many wish they did....and if its a prerequisite then im just saying u might want to save a little cash and heartbreak...

    you say u hope for the best and expect the worst...well if thats the case then it should not be a problem writing that check....obviously that philosophy doesnt go along with the one that u indicated u use when writing the check....seems that might be the biggest problem...
    Your arrogance is showing and it is mighty unbecoming. DO NOT challenge my loyalties as a fan or pretend to have some great insight which you obviously don't have. You are twisting my point and this line of discussion is not appreciated at all.

    Unless you find some new ground I've pretty much said all I can to you on the original topic of Artest's therapy and his denial. I'm repeating myself and you're going to argue your THEORY is the only possible answer and is obvious and based on facts (which are mostly your opinions and speculation... but you won't let that get in the way).

    On the topic of 'fandom', I'm not going down that path with you.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  9. #84
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    You can say a lot without really saying anything at all. I've already spoken to all of this. I'll boil it down tho.

    Your 'facts' aren't -all- 'facts' at all but rather your speculation on the subject. Calling these facts may make you feel more secure in your position(s)... but doesn't change a thing.

    My problem with Artest's denial is that I feel there were better answers and if he was getting anything from the therapy (and everything else he's supposedly doing) then he would've likely used a better answer. Especially since he's had the question more than once and denied it everytime. It's not like he should've been taken by surprise.

    Not only do you tell us all what Ron is thinking and why is he doing what he does but you also have the ability to tell me what I'd do? Climb down off the high horse and join reality.

    I'm not saying you are wrong... I am saying there are alternate answers here and you can't possibly KNOW your's are the correct ones unless you have a pipeline to Artest.

    ----

    I'll sum this up even better for you:
    You have a THEORY about why Ron lied about being in therapy. A theory. Not facts. Not the final answer. A theory.

    I admit your theory could be correct. It also could be wrong. Too bad you can't admit the same thing.

    -Bball
    lol...too funny...so what ur saying is because ron doesnt come out and tell us why he lied that its not based on fact? lol...well thats a helluva thing to rely on....

    if a tornado comes thru and wipes out a town...but i wasnt there...does that mean i cant say that the tornado is what destroyed my house??

    u keep wanting to say that the facts arent facts....which one do u question?

    do u question the fact that this denying to the press wasnt premeditated?

    this is the old...looks like a rose...smells like a rose...tastes like a rose...feels like a rose....

    now its like ur disputing the validity of the facts because david stern wont verify to u personally that a condition of reinstatement was that he go to counseling....

    so based on that...ur right....make u feel better?? as a fan we have not had that confirmation...and likely wont...and if thats the sort of thing u r basing ur thought process on then im sorry..dont know what to tell u...

    and really this isnt even about being wrong....its just that u dont like it....u dont like the fact that all these people made a decision u dont like...

    isnt that really what it comes down to??

    ok...ill bite....if this isnt what happened....then give me some other plausible explanation given these facts...

    this is a time that all the facts point to only one explanation...give me something else that makes sense....

    because u want to make this about me not willing to allow i might be wrong...

    when really its the facts, and not me, that dictates what the situation is...

  10. #85
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    lol...too funny...so what ur saying is because ron doesnt come out and tell us why he lied that its not based on fact? lol...well thats a helluva thing to rely on....

    if a tornado comes thru and wipes out a town...but i wasnt there...does that mean i cant say that the tornado is what destroyed my house??

    u keep wanting to say that the facts arent facts....which one do u question?

    do u question the fact that this denying to the press wasnt premeditated?

    this is the old...looks like a rose...smells like a rose...tastes like a rose...feels like a rose....

    now its like ur disputing the validity of the facts because david stern wont verify to u personally that a condition of reinstatement was that he go to counseling....

    so based on that...ur right....make u feel better?? as a fan we have not had that confirmation...and likely wont...and if thats the sort of thing u r basing ur thought process on then im sorry..dont know what to tell u...

    and really this isnt even about being wrong....its just that u dont like it....u dont like the fact that all these people made a decision u dont like...

    isnt that really what it comes down to??

    ok...ill bite....if this isnt what happened....then give me some other plausible explanation given these facts...

    this is a time that all the facts point to only one explanation...give me something else that makes sense....

    because u want to make this about me not willing to allow i might be wrong...

    when really its the facts, and not me, that dictates what the situation is...

    I suggest you re-read this thread, and in particular my replies, for you will find your answers there. Reading this latest post by you makes me question your comprehension abilities. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply missed some things in the rush of the day (Being a Friday and all).... or perhaps I didn't use a proper font or color?

    _Bball
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    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  11. #86
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    I suggest you re-read this thread, and in particular my replies, for you will find your answers there. Reading this latest post by you makes me question your comprehension abilities. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you simply missed some things in the rush of the day (Being a Friday and all).... or perhaps I didn't use a proper font or color?

    _Bball

    thats exactly the response i expected.....remember something....when people do something that u dont understand or dont agree with, it doesnt necessarily mean that they are the one with the problem....

    cheers...

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    thats exactly the response i expected.....remember something....when people do something that u dont understand or dont agree with, it doesnt necessarily mean that they are the one with the problem....

    cheers...
    Is this English? It is rather senseless.
    Remember this: Arrogance is not a becoming trait.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  13. #88
    foretaz
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    Default Re: Reggie on ESPN Radio

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball
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    Is this English? It is rather senseless.
    Remember this: Arrogance is not a becoming trait.

    -Bball
    i agree...neither is ignorance....shall we make a list of traits that arent becoming?

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