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Thread: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

  1. #401
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I hope that's not the lesson. Sorry, but I'd rather lose to cheaters than cheat.
    Sadly, tampering has proven to work. Look at the Heat superfriends team. Look at GSW successfully recruiting Durant. The difference is that these instances of tampering were "legal", because they were done by players. But you'd have to be pretty naive to think there wasn't tacit support from the teams involved.

    It's important to remember that the Lakers were fined not for tampering per se, but because they did it too openly. If they had for example, asked Julius Randle (who shares PG's agent) to pass along a quiet word, there would have been NO FINE. If that had been Kobe Bryant instead of Magic Johnson winking on a talk show, there would have been NO WARNING.

    Tampering penalties are a joke, where they exist, and the NBA has basically given up policing some forms of tampering even. It's hard not to get the message that tampering is the best way to recruit stars.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    When they filed freaking tampering charges.
    Which wasn't announced. If it weren't for Vecsey, there would have just been a quiet announcement from the NBA that the Lakers have been fined for tampering.

    Did anyone call the Clippers whiny losers for filing tampering charges against the Hawks and Kings regarding Chris Paul? Remember that all the Hawks did was to say they would pursue Paul in FA, and then Kings coach Mike Malone for saying Chris Paul would look good in a Kings' uniform.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    When they filed freaking tampering charges.
    But there was CLEAR tampering, it was blatant and the fact that the NBA did not punish the Lakers more disgusts me. They should lose this years pick and be forever forbidden from signing PG thats the only way they learn their lesson, that and ***** PG right now. I realize that in many ways the Pacers brought this on themselves but it still pisses me off.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I guess the Pacers should have kept their mouths shut and pretended to be something other than a farm team. Should be focusing on grooming Turner for the Bulls or the Celtics or whoever.
    BillS

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Maybe I missed it, when did the Pacers or KP say they were wronged let alone harp on it?
    1. Post draft press conference.
    2. The luncheon the next day (as told by Joe).
    3. During an interview with JMV.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    When they filed freaking tampering charges.
    Yeah. Next time someone (or some team) is wronged they should just suck it up, say nothing at all (esp not vent behind closed doors about being wronged that could be leaked to the media), and certainly not complain about it (I mean the Pacers are the first team to ever do so).

    I kind of wish Simon had wrote a letter similar to the one Gilbert wrote years ago just to see the reactions. That would be whining and harpingon it.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I guess the Pacers should have kept their mouths shut and pretended to be something other than a farm team. Should be focusing on grooming Turner for the Bulls or the Celtics or whoever.
    Dont you get it? If someone steals your proprietary information or your key employee you should suck it up and move on. Don't file charges, don't go to a labor board. That is whining and harping on the past. Just accept you were wronged and move on with your life

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    If people in the NBA think we were petty, then I would like to see what would happen if they were in our position. For crying out loud what should the Pacers have done? Turn a blind eye to a player under contract being influenced by another team? "Oh hey, we have invested millions into this player...but if someone talks to him about playing for them while under contract for us...go for it. Do you want Myles Turner's number too?"

    Some of you are acting like Herb is burning INDY down to get justice for PG.


    They wanted an investigation. Waited for the investigation to be completed without press releases and KP going on interviews. They were silent for weeks (primarily because of the NBA gag order). When the fine falls KP says, "We accept the league's findings." And when the lies about lawsuits flutter, Herb squelches rumors and they are ready to move on.

    If you don't like this then you are fine with super teams poaching players they want, even though there are rules against it. If you are against the Pacers wanting an investigation, then you are fine with players under contract with one foot out the door and in the bedroom of another. If you want them to focus on the future, while ignoring the tampering, you are asking the team to move into a future where any team can talk to their players about their future with them. What kind of future is that? When a fox steals your chickens you don't just talk about the new chickens you got from the market. There is still a fox out there.


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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    When they filed freaking tampering charges.
    The Pacers weren't even allowed to comment when they filed charges.

    It's fascinating that the Pacers are getting criticized because they filed charges against a team that was already being freaking investigated, and PROVEN to have broken the rules.
    Last edited by freddielewis14; 09-07-2017 at 10:11 AM.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    1. Post draft press conference.
    2. The luncheon the next day (as told by Joe).
    3. During an interview with JMV.
    Okay, you're talking about separate things.

    KP said that the PG news was a surprise.

    KP never made a public rebuke about the Lakers tampering. He wasn't even allowed to comment.

    What is the issue here?

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    You guys are taking hyperbole to a whole new level with this situation. Really makes it difficult to hold a true conversation about it all.

    I won't speak for anyone else, but I see nothing wrong with wanting the team to solely focus on the current roster on a move forward basis while cutting out the other noise in the media.

    Nobody said anything about burning down Indy. Nobody said anything about it being okay to steal an invested employee or proprietary information. Thats just nonsense

    Literally all thats being said is the wish for the franchise to focus on the present roster as opposed to comments that made this an emotional thing.

    Im not "butt hurt" about it, but I don't want to hear about how Paul misled the franchise or how this was a gut punch either.

    If you like commentary like that, then cool. But don't claim that anyone who thinks otherwise believes some extreme alternative either.

    I don't agree with filing tampering charges, but it was their prerogative as a franchise to do so. The league did an investigation, and made a ruiling. Which is what the Pacers wanted, and received. But my point all along has been that the same result could have been achieved with a different approach.

    I'm intrigued by Herbs comments that the franchise is moving on. It'll be nice when the same can be said for PD so we can actually discuss (on court) basketball again.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    Okay, you're talking about separate things.

    KP said that the PG news was a surprise.

    KP never made a public rebuke about the Lakers tampering. He wasn't even allowed to comment.

    What is the issue here?
    I'm not specifically talking about tampering. I just mean the entire ordeal overall

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I don't agree with filing tampering charges, but it was their prerogative as a franchise to do so. The league did an investigation, and made a ruiling. Which is what the Pacers wanted, and received. But my point all along has been that the same result could have been achieved with a different approach.
    What approach should have been taken ??

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by freddielewis14 View Post
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    The Pacers weren't even allowed to comment when they filed charges.

    It's fascinating that the Pacers are getting criticized because they filed charges against a team that was already being freaking investigated, and PROVEN to have broken the rules.
    It cracks me up that people basically treat this as tattling to the teacher that someone fouled you too hard at Recess.

    PG was a multi-million dollar asset for the Pacer franchise. He's a household name for anyone who pays the slightest bit of attention the NBA. He was the only reason we ever had a chance at a national TV game in recent years. Pretty much any national exposure we were getting in the last couple of years was due to PG. If you feel that another franchise has broken the rules to screw with your asset, then you'd be a complete fool to just sit back and take it. I'm glad the Pacers pressed it and got the NBA to formally admit that the Lakers broke the rules. I'm also glad that KP showed some fire to the media and at the event that TJ referenced. I'd much rather have a GM who has their heart invested in the team than the opposite.

    The business angle of this just completely flies over the head of some people. All the Pacers have done is try to protect their extremely valuable business, while also wanting those who harmed their business held accountable.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    But my point all along has been that the same result could have been achieved with a different approach.
    Please tell me how? How can the Pacers shed light on a team tampering with their player without filing tampering charges? Or they should just ignore it since we don't get immediate results.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Literally all thats being said is the wish for the franchise to focus on the present roster as opposed to comments that made this an emotional thing.
    And literally there have been all of 3 instances of comment from the Pacers and 2 media tweets about this prior to the final message from Herb. Somehow this is presented as the Pacers whining and not paying any attention to their future because they are emotionally wrapped up in losing PG, so they should have shut up and taken it on the chin.

    Heck, even the little bit of discussion about moving forward with Oladipo and Sabonis has been ridiculed around here as proof our front office is so stupid they think it was an even deal. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    What approach should have been taken ??
    Let me see if I can guess.

    1) KP should have said it was all the Pacers' fault for not trading their best player as soon as they thought he might leave.
    2) The Pacers should have ignored any sorrow or upset from fans or responded to it by telling them to get over it, it's just a business.
    3) They should have prevented any leaks of action within the NBA against the Lakers by not taking any and by encouraging the NBA to drop any investigation leaked or announced in order not to look like crybabies.
    4) They should begin to look for trades for Myles right away so as not to lose him for nothing since it is guaranteed he won't want to stay and we don't want to give anyone else the chance to tamper.

    Am I close?
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    But my point all along has been that the same result could have been achieved with a different approach.
    How exactly? Are you saying the NBA would have investigated without the Pacers filing a complaint?

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Please tell me how? How can the Pacers shed light on a team tampering with their player without filing tampering charges? Or they should just ignore it since we don't get immediate results.
    Thats not what I said. The pacers could have filed tampering charges without the other stuff.

    I'm not saying the pacers shouldn't have filed the charges, hence the "its their prerogative" tidbit

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I won't speak for anyone else, but I see nothing wrong with wanting the team to solely focus on the current roster on a move forward basis while cutting out the other noise in the media.

    Nobody said anything about burning down Indy. Nobody said anything about it being okay to steal an invested employee or proprietary information. Thats just nonsense
    No offense but when you say the team should say anything (better yet file charges) then yeah, you are saying that stuff is OK.

    Look, I (only speaking for myself here) agree with your premise. You have to move on at some point and focus on the future. But I don't agree that filing a complaint or making light of a situation is inappropriate or whining.

    Literally all thats being said is the wish for the franchise to focus on the present roster as opposed to comments that made this an emotional thing.
    Perhaos I missed it but literally all I have seen is 2-3 public comments from the Pacers. And I don't blame a GM for being fired up (esp at a fan focused event)


    I'm intrigued by Herbs comments that the franchise is moving on. It'll be nice when the same can be said for PD so we can actually discuss (on court) basketball again.
    I agree 100% with you on this. My lord basketball season can't get here fast enough!

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    Thats not what I said. The pacers could have filed tampering charges without the other stuff.

    I'm not saying the pacers shouldn't have filed the charges, hence the "its their prerogative" tidbit
    What other stuff? The KP fan bit part? Or are you referencing media leaks?

  35. #422

    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    I don't agree with filing tampering charges, but it was their prerogative as a franchise to do so..
    So, since the NBA was already looking into it, should the NBA have stopped their research ??

    I'm having trouble seeing your whole point here. What would have been enough ?? What - out of what WAS done - was too much ??

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    No offense but when you say the team should say anything (better yet file charges) then yeah, you are saying that stuff is OK.

    Look, I (only speaking for myself here) agree with your premise. You have to move on at some point and focus on the future. But I don't agree that filing a complaint or making light of a situation is inappropriate or whining.



    Perhaos I missed it but literally all I have seen is 2-3 public comments from the Pacers. And I don't blame a GM for being fired up (esp at a fan focused event)



    I agree 100% with you on this. My lord basketball season can't get here fast enough!
    Though I don't agree with it, I understand why the team filed the charges. I dont like it because from everything ive read, this is pretty common practice throughout the league. If somehow this was completely leaps and bounds above what typically takes place throughout the league, then perhaps I'd have a different opinion. But if its standard operating procedure throughout the league, then I'm not a fan. As fans, we aren't privy to how common this type of this takes place. My opinion is formed from the idea that this happens all the time.

    As far as KP being fired up, I don't mind that at all. Who doesnt want a fired up GM??. My preference is to have that fire fully channeled to the current team moving forward.

    Paul didn't want to be here anymore? Okay cool, **** him. We are moving on.

    I understand that he only spoke about the entire ordeal (Paul misleading him, the situation with the Lakers, etc) within approximately 3 instances to the media.

    But TO ME, that's three chances to talk up the current team and talk about moving forward as a franchise.

    Had he gone that route and still filed the tampering charges, they would have achieved the same result (which was what I was trying to say previously but didn't explain well).

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Only part I don't agree with is it being common. When a executive got involved (after being warned by the NBA) it wasn't the same as all the other times.

    I do agree tampering is common place. I think I even referenced Phil Jackson book earlier in this thread.

    IMO the Jimmy Kimmel skit made this situation different. But let's be real, tampering will continue to happen.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I would like for Herb to have shown he has some real passion for this team and actually found cause and filed a suit, not to walk it back and be a good NBA owner and not speak out against the league nor make waves and press buttons. Heck, why even walk it back at all even if it was bluff? Let it remain out there that he was angry enough to consider legal options. Show Indpls and the league he'll fight for his team.
    But nooooo...
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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