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Thread: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

  1. #351
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Hearing a lot of national people saying Pacers are over the top on this, PG was going to LA anyway, contact by Palinka meant nothing etc.

    What they fail (probably choose not) to acknowledge is the real game the Lakers & PG's agent were playing. The end game was to degrade PG's value to the point they could trade for him giving up horseshit for assets. They knew PG's wants & needs are volatile and wanted to remove that uncertainty from the equation. They also wanted the advantage of signing long-term as a Laker not off the open market. 500K for that level of subterfuge is total BS.

    Good on KP for not giving in during the trade talks and good on Herb for raising hell about having the value of his asset artificially devalued and letting it be known he isnt done raising hell.......

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  3. #352

    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    In a world where a CBA [agreed to by both owners and players] is in place
    Thanx. I know this sounds snarky, but it cleared up my confusion. I was concerned about Ace's point also.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Yes that's exactly it he did absolutely nothing there and unlike today's Pacers that team had a legit shot at a title.

    This he gets upset over I mean I'm not saying he can't be but where was it back then when it was needed?

    Yes I can't help but notice this.
    Umm ... yeah, nobody raised a stink at the team level and all the pressure to reduce suspensions was figments of David Stern's imagination.

    Come on. This is just an extension of "public rumor or it didn't happen" thinking.
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  5. #354
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    To be fair I think I heard years later that both owners were living and put up a stink behind the scenes.

    Just because he doesn't advertise it publicly (ala a Mark Cuban) doesn't mean it doesn't happen

    IMO I would be shocked if he files a law-suit. I just don't see a positive end game (but perhaps as others have said this isn't about just this situation but setting a precedent for future situations)
    Putting up a stink behind the scenes, even if true, just makes it easy for that to be a lot of wasted energy. Especially if it's for naught to begin with and you simply drop the subject. It's nothing but a bluff if you aren't prepared to take it further, even if that means airing dirty laundry.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  7. #355
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Umm ... yeah, nobody raised a stink at the team level and all the pressure to reduce suspensions was figments of David Stern's imagination.

    Come on. This is just an extension of "public rumor or it didn't happen" thinking.
    I don't really want to revisit the brawl but this apologist stuff needs to be countered because it's missing the point. If Simon is really going to sue the league now then he must really be irked and bothered by their handling of this event because he sure didn't threaten to sue the NBA in the aftermath of the brawl (or if he did it was done on the down low and not intentionally leaked to Vecsey for public consumption like this was). Even though the Pacers were made to feel the entire brunt of it including derailing a team that had legitimate championship aspirations. Even with punishments that set the franchise back for years. Even with the Pacers supposedly being a model NBA franchise (which apparently scored them nothing in the benefit of the doubt category).

    Either way, it's being handled differently than how the brawl was handled, which left the Pacers holding the bag and all mitigating circumstances were swept under the rug. And the Pacers (Simon) accepted that without publicly threatening a lawsuit. That is very different than now. That's the point.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  9. #356
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Because it's not like the brawl didn't happen? It would definitely have been whining to sue over Detroit not getting punished as much - like a guy crying to mom because he got punished for slugging his brother who poked him first. In this case, though, what did the Pacers do to deserve any of what LA did?

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Because it's not like the brawl didn't happen? It would definitely have been whining to sue over Detroit not getting punished as much - like a guy crying to mom because he got punished for slugging his brother who poked him first. In this case, though, what did the Pacers do to deserve any of what LA did?

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    Well for me considering that it was a Detroit fan who threw a cup at Ron Artest to begin with along with them throwing a bunch of other things at the Pacers later on yeah I would think he would want to defend his players in that situation.

    Not that it absolves Artest or Stephen Jackson(who made it worse IMO) from how they acted but at least I get why Artest reacted. I don't get why Detroit got a pass on the whole thing.

    So yes I personally wonder why that never bothered him to possibly sue the league but this does?

    Especially over a player many here consider not only overrated and are glad to be gone but who was never that interested in being here beyond his contract to begin with.

    The Brawl did more damage to the Pacers than this does.

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  12. #358
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    So yes I personally wonder why that never bothered him to possibly sue the league but this does?
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    The Brawl did more damage to the Pacers than this does.
    Possibly because he believed his guys to be equally culpable in escalating the situation so suing the league would make no sense? What would the purpose of the suit have been - to get a greater punishment for Detroit as a team for an action by a fan? And by extension make all owners from that point on (including himself) responsible for anything a fan does in the stands, which could be a horrible precedent?

    In this case he would be (should he choose to do so) suing the league for not taking appropriate action on something entirely within their jurisdiction upon the breaking of an explicit rule.

    That seems straightforward to me.

    However, if it is easier to add "cowardly" to the already overwhelming list of faults that make our owner the worst in the history of sports, please do so.
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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  16. #360

    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    This makes it look worse on Indy.




    This is not the first time a team has been investigated for tampering, nor is it the first time a team has been found guilty and fined, a league official told B/R. It's simply the first time the league has publicly acknowledged it. The Cleveland Cavaliers threatened to ask the league to investigate if there was tampering when LeBron James left them for the Miami Heat, league sources say, but ultimately, the team conducted its own private inquiry....

    That's why the executives contacted by B/R were surprised the Pacers demanded an investigation by the league at all. One called it "bush league." Several others opined that the Pacers must've had some hard-proof evidence. Almost all presumed owner Herb Simon was simply too irate about George's proclamation that he would leave in free agency to let him go quietly.


    While there have been previous instances where teams were upset they lost a star player and suspected the recruiting process began well before his contract officially expired, most have swallowed their anger rather than draw added attention to the fact they were spurned or invite similar scrutiny.


    "You better be careful what you ask for," says the former GM. "That kind of disclosure becomes a two-way street. You sure you want the league to look at every phone call and email you've sent?"...

    One executive said now there are teams that instruct their potential free-agent and trade targets who have indicated they may want to go elsewhere on what to say and how to act to expedite their current team's desire to move them—basically providing them with How To **** Off Your General Manager for Dummies.


    "Those are the guys who tell the player, 'Do these things so you're sure to get out,'" another Eastern Conference GM says....

    The $500,000 fine handed to the Lakers is not likely to dissuade any team from conducting what has become business as usual. League rules allow for teams to be fined as much as $5 million and have an unspecified number of draft picks taken away. Several executives posited that because Simon, a long-tenured and highly respected owner, demanded the investigation, commissioner Adam Silver felt compelled to hand down some sort of punishment, even if it was a token one.


    "It's more symbolic than anything else," says a Western Conference GM. "It has zero effect."


    One prominent agent went even further. Asked if it would serve as any kind of deterrent, he laughed. "Are you kidding me? It might enhance it. If it only costs $500,000 to take a shot at getting Paul George, I'd think every team might try it."...



    More included in the link.

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  18. #361

    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Paul George went from looking to rent a house in LA with Reggie Jackson to just buying it for himself. With info that teams are getting players condos and cars - makes me wonder if he actually had to pay for the house.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cleva View Post
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    This makes it look worse on Indy.









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    How so?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I can believe Herb Simon has ran the Pacers by the book. Now, maybe he'd be surprised to learn what his underlings have been doing... I don't know about that part of the article. But I can believe they did it without his blessing if it happened at all. This is a person that has ruled against going after RFA's even so I doubt he's OK with going after players under contract.

    Maybe this event was the straw that broke the camel's back... or simply an eye-opener that he's been playing by a different set of rules than much of the league while he's carried the NBA league's water.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

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  22. #364
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Vecsey is now reporting that although Pritchard wants him to, Herb Simon is unlikely to litigate this issue in the end.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    How so?
    Indy wants to play a game that no one else is playing and Silver was patronizing him.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Vecsey is now reporting that although Pritchard wants him to, Herb Simon is unlikely to litigate this issue in the end.
    Interesting. Link?

  26. #367
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cleva View Post
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    Interesting. Link?

    https://www.patreon.com/posts/cavs-still-beast-14216241


    Informing: A friend of a friend, who is a close friend of Herb Simon, says the Pacers’ owner has never been a plaintiff in any lawsuit and won’t start now.

    As revealed in this space two days ago, Simon is considering just that, disgruntled at the league’s leniency (500G fine) regarding the Lakers being found guilty for attempted tampering with Paul George. The friend of Simon claims team president Kevin Pritchard fervently wants to take the issue to court, but he does not believe Herb will pursue it.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cleva View Post
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    Indy wants to play a game that no one else is playing and Silver was patronizing him.
    Meh, eye of the beholder I guess. Doesn't make him look worse to me but I guess others see it differently.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    https://www.patreon.com/posts/cavs-still-beast-14216241


    Informing: A friend of a friend, who is a close friend of Herb Simon, says the Pacers’ owner has never been a plaintiff in any lawsuit and won’t start now.

    As revealed in this space two days ago, Simon is considering just that, disgruntled at the league’s leniency (500G fine) regarding the Lakers being found guilty for attempted tampering with Paul George. The friend of Simon claims team president Kevin Pritchard fervently wants to take the issue to court, but he does not believe Herb will pursue it.
    I really just wish he would say Donnie Walsh and be done with it.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I wish this would just go away. It's over.


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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Article posted by RoboHicks...


    https://sports.yahoo.com/magic-johns...1.html?src=rss

    My response was he should apologize to the Pacers.

    Basically this is a non story anymore.
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Vecsey is now reporting that although Pritchard wants him to, Herb Simon is unlikely to litigate this issue in the end.
    See this sounds a lot more plausible to me than Simon actually wanting this.

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  37. #373

    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Possibly because he believed his guys to be equally culpable in escalating the situation so suing the league would make no sense? What would the purpose of the suit have been - to get a greater punishment for Detroit as a team for an action by a fan? And by extension make all owners from that point on (including himself) responsible for anything a fan does in the stands, which could be a horrible precedent?

    In this case he would be (should he choose to do so) suing the league for not taking appropriate action on something entirely within their jurisdiction upon the breaking of an explicit rule.

    That seems straightforward to me.

    However, if it is easier to add "cowardly" to the already overwhelming list of faults that make our owner the worst in the history of sports, please do so.


    I wish Simon cared as much as Irsay does about the Colts success(and I find Irsay to be a complete tool) that being said how he handles himself publically has always been preferable in comparison to Jimbo.

    It seems Simon to me at least is content with just making the playoffs and making $$$ but not much else. Course the NBA is different than the NFL the NFL has premier franchises in places that you wouldn't see in NBA teams(Packers, Steelers etc)

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  39. #374
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cleva View Post
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    This makes it look worse on Indy.









    More included in the link.
    "How many names flash across the ticker two hours after midnight saying they've agreed to a four-year, $64 million deal?" he asks. "You think that was negotiated in 10 minutes? If you're an agent and you wait until July 1 to find out what your client's options are, you're going to get fired. You'll be sitting there while your client's options are falling off the table."
    "What hurt Mitch was he played strictly by the rules," one prominent agent says. "He would call you at midnight at the start of free agency and he'd be weeks or a month behind."
    "USA Basketball is institutional tampering," a former GM says. "I know the team I worked for wanted to be part of it. It's just too easy to say, 'Wouldn't it be cool to play together?' Players are tampering and so are coaches."
    1. Paul George was not a FA this July 1.
    2. The 500K fine confirms that another executive talked with someone representing Paul George.
    3. That person representing Paul George was not just Julius Randle and/or their agent.
    4. It is one thing for a player to talk to another player. It is tampering when a team executive does it.
    5. Adam Silver is not Stern, for good and for the bad.

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  41. #375
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    As much as I hate to say it, it is what it is now. However it happened, LA got assurance that Paul was going to be there next season. They were able to keep their pick and young talent. They salary dumped a bad contract to make room for Paul George and whoever the second mystery player is. As a side note, this is the part of the tampering case that's being overlooked, IMHO. End result, LA will be a Top 5 team next season.

    It's time for Indiana to lick their wounds, keep it moving, and hope Turner/Victor become Star players. Lesson learned...don't play by the rules.


    Remember when we could have gotten 1-2 solid players and a possible Top 3 draft pick in the 2017 NBA Draft by trading away Paul George?

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