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Thread: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by ejwallace View Post
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    At least reports like this from the LA Times are nice to read.... It doesn't paint the Pacers as crybabies or bitter.....

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...831-story.html

    Seems like the only place I'm really hearing us called crybabies is on here from a couple people. Obviously Laker fans too.

    Virtually everyone else, apparently even some in Los Angeles, understands what a complete joke this was.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-01-2017 at 11:37 AM.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Seems like the only place I'm really hearing us called crybabies is on here from a couple people.

    Virtually everyone else, apparently even those in Los Angeles, understands what a complete joke this was.
    There were some tweets in the Indystar article that were calling the Pacers various names, but they seemed to me to be from Lakers fans.
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Well, I guess the league has now approved tampering. Shame

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Romsey31 View Post
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    https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/sta...53295859544064

    Why the NBA blew it by not punishing the Lakers more for tampering with Paul George
    https://t.co/4ePXCmgW3p
    I'm really just weighing in here to state that Rick Bonnell is probably the best newspaper team beat writer in the business. He is like Conrad Brunner was when he still worked over at the Indianapolis News.

    Also what I like about this article is that Rick really has no dog in the fight other than his team is also a small market and yes in the past they have been screwed over by someone demanding to go to the Lakers (Kobe).


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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Romsey31 View Post
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    https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell/sta...53295859544064

    Why the NBA blew it by not punishing the Lakers more for tampering with Paul George
    https://t.co/4ePXCmgW3p
    I agree. These teams are paying players millions of dollars, fines (unless they are multi-million dollar fines) are not going to make them change. Prohibiting them from signing a player and/or taking draft picks away would have a bigger impact.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eleazar View Post
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    Can the NBA even actually punish an agent? Technically agents only have an indirect association with the NBA through their clients. About the only thing they could do would be to bar an agent from participating in contract negotiations, which is a harsh sentencing if it is only the first time he has been caught doing this.
    The NBA and NBAPA could. Agents are certified via the NBAPA

    https://nbpa.com/becoming-an-agent/
    Last edited by vapacersfan; 09-01-2017 at 03:55 PM.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I have to admit I am surprised at those who say the Pacers shouldn't complain.

    Using that logic if you get mugged on the street you shouldn't report it to the police. The police should see it or go review the footage without knowing something happened and you should never have to tell anyone.

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    Default NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    Stop your *****ing and stop watching then. No one's holding a gun to your head and making you watch or care.

    I've basically stopped watching baseball and college basketball. Those sports are doing fine without me. And the NBA will do fine without you.
    Are you a Pacers fan? No? Then I'm not talking to you.


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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Romsey31 View Post
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    Lakers fined 500k for tampering
    Quote Originally Posted by Romsey31 View Post
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    The Los Angeles Lakers have been fined $500,000 for violating anti-tampering rules.
    That is not nearly enough!

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    That is not nearly enough!
    Barely a slap on the wrist.
    {o,o}
    |)__)
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Tampering is less important when all it does is damage a player's trade value?

    I know there's a large consensus here that we should develop a player until his potential is obviously paying off and then trade him quickly for more players who have possible potential (and yes, I meant that as a redundant intensifier) whom we can develop until their potential is paying off so we can trade them etc. etc. etc. and therefore it is solely the Pacers' fault for not trading PG as soon as they thought he might consider other teams. For those folks, keeping PG at all was stupid because draft picks are always more valuable than a player actually delivering on a promise.

    For those of us who believe good players even at high picks come along seldom and that you do everything you can to keep them and only trade them when you have to and can get some kind of equal value, this was still the Lakers screwing the Pacers over by making it clear Paul was worthless to 29 other NBA teams because he already had made up his mind before his contract was over.
    For me it is the NBA of all the four sports is one where the player seems more powerful than the team themselves. I get why the Pacers didn't do anything hoping Paul would change his mind etc. but some of us knew this well in advance and wonder why the Pacers didn't in this particular instance. Which is why I'm not nearly as bothered he didn't want to be here. The Lakers didn't steal him away he's not even on the Lakers roster right now(there's no guarantee he will leave OKC either although I think he will)

    That being said I rather Paul demand to be traded than to have him leave for nothing. I think that would've been worse for us.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    For me it is the NBA of all the four sports is one where the player seems more powerful than the team themselves. I get why the Pacers didn't do anything hoping Paul would change his mind etc. but some of us knew this well in advance and wonder why the Pacers didn't in this particular instance. Which is why I'm not nearly as bothered he didn't want to be here. The Lakers didn't steal him away he's not even on the Lakers roster right now(there's no guarantee he will leave OKC either although I think he will)

    That being said I rather Paul demand to be traded than to have him leave for nothing. I think that would've been worse for us.
    Im ok with him wanting out. Im NOT ok with how he destroyed his own value.

    And, yes, I was one of the people who expected him to bolt and was in favor of moving him the past trade deadline. Not because, as BillS states, to see a really, really good player moved so we sell high and to get draft picks, but because it was (to me atleast) pretty apparent that he (Paul) was looking at other places. IF that's what you see happenning then I don't see why we try to hang on to him unless you REALLY believe you can change his mind.

    Anyway, here we are... It is what it is at this point, though I really don't get why we didn't get ahead of this and let ourselves be completely dependant on the judgement of a player whom we have seen more then once before has all the talent in the world, but great judgement isn't really one of his talents.
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    The season can't start fast enough

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mourning View Post
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    Anyway, here we are... It is what it is at this point, though I really don't get why we didn't get ahead of this and let ourselves be completely dependant on the judgement of a player whom we have seen more then once before has all the talent in the world, but great judgement isn't really one of his talents.
    because it wasn't a secret PG was LA bound ASAP 2 offseasons ago there was stuff about "former teammates say PG wants to be a Laker." we, me included, all rationalized it saying yeah but PG said he liked the Clippers and he's the man now and yada yada. likely coulda/woulda gotten better offers if we moved him at the deadline but I honestly don't think they'd have been anything overwhelmingly better and there'd have only been a few teams willing to make that kinda move.

    just rock and a hard place for KP, move him for a likely comparable package w/ what we eventually got in the middle of a (crappy) playoff season, or spend the next couple months hoping he changes his mind. I mean seriously, the biggest and somewhat credible rumor we heard was Gary Harris and the 13th pick. maybe you like that better but it's an entirely comparable package, it's not the nutty **** people were demanding like #2 and Ingraham like we were dealing from any sort of position of power.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    because it wasn't a secret PG was LA bound ASAP 2 offseasons ago there was stuff about "former teammates say PG wants to be a Laker." we, me included, all rationalized it saying yeah but PG said he liked the Clippers and he's the man now and yada yada. likely coulda/woulda gotten better offers if we moved him at the deadline but I honestly don't think they'd have been anything overwhelmingly better and there'd have only been a few teams willing to make that kinda move.

    just rock and a hard place for KP, move him for a likely comparable package w/ what we eventually got in the middle of a (crappy) playoff season, or spend the next couple months hoping he changes his mind. I mean seriously, the biggest and somewhat credible rumor we heard was Gary Harris and the 13th pick. maybe you like that better but it's an entirely comparable package, it's not the nutty **** people were demanding like #2 and Ingraham like we were dealing from any sort of position of power.
    I think the rumours were quite different from Harris and #13 near the trade deadline and that would be only logical as Paul would have given his new destination a BIG boost. Think about what Boston would look like in these past playoffs for example if he had been shipped off there. He also hadn't completely eradicated his own value with this "only LA'' when it comes to resigning-nonsense. We might not have gotten the moon, we sure as hell would have gottten a much, much better haul then the crap we got now.

    And, yes, crap. Victor is ok and Sabonis is too, but not in any sane universe is that a "fair" price for Paul. Yet it was the best we could get after the antics of Paul, his agent and the Lakers.

    The team we have now is going to be scrappy, I don't doubt that, and I like that. I still think this is going to be a looooong season, because frankly there's only so much you can make up with beying scrappy when your competition just has got better talent.

    But, like I wrote before, it is what it is at this point. I think the Pritchard did the right thing going over the Lakers for tampering and I also think the NBA gave a fallacy of a punishment. The witer of that Charlotte newspaper was dead-on in his column IMHO.
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    https://www.patreon.com/posts/exclus...urce=post_link


    Peter Vecsey postedExclusive - Pacers owner Simon may sue NBA, Lakers over Paul George tampering case

    Peter Vecsey posted
    Exclusive - Pacers owner Simon may sue NBA, Lakers over Paul George tampering case
    New York
    Following the NBA’s 2003-04 season, LeBron James’ coming out pro party, the Cavaliers had the right to exercise an option on Carlos Boozer. The Duke forward had been the 37th pick in the ’02 draft, and was locked into a relatively scrawny salary (600G) for someone who’d just averaged 15.5 points and 11.4 rebounds as a soph.
    The Cavs finished 37-45 that year, a lotto team despite the advent of the high school kid dubbed The Chosen One, who still smelled like milk. Cleveland was hardly a desired destination of flashy free agents.
    In an effort to do right by Boozer (the first teammate who didn’t want to play with LeBron) and send a message to prime time players throughout the league, Gordon Gund, an honors’ owner, did the unthinkable; he took an agent and his client at their word.

    “Booz wanted to get paid earlier,” recounted an ex Cavs’ employee. “We absolutely would’ve done a significant long-term deal with him.”
    With agent Rob Pelinka by his side, Boozer told Gund and GM Jim Paxson to their faces, “Let me out early and I'll do the right thing.”
    Clearly, that meant he’d sign a new deal with the Cavs. “As soon as we let him out, Pelinka started entertaining other offers, against his word,” said the former employee.” Boozer signed with the Jazz.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** **
    When Lakers’ chairwoman Jeanie Buss, at long last, relieved her brother, Jim, of his fruitless duties, and replaced him, Feb. 17, 2017, with Magic Johnson, she stated he could hire anyone he wanted as GM. Jerry West was specifically named as a possibility.

    Not a chance! Not for one mistaken moment did Magic consider appointing the team’s former exalted executive as a tutor, to teach him free agent and salary cap rules, how to avoid talk show appearances, where only fools rush in and act stupid, you know, the basics, minor face/franchise-saving details.

    Magic adroitly looked off West. He only had eyes for Pelinka.

    What front orifice wouldn’t want a leader of such high morals?

    Are we even slightly surprised what happened a month or so after Pelinka became Lakers’ GM?

    Actually, I am slightly surprised. Even for him, that was awfully fast to get down and dirty.

    According to an impeccable source, for two months, the independent law firm hired by the league, investigated tampering charges filed by Pacers’ owner, Herb Simon.
    And it determined that Pelinka was the Palooka who communicated with Paul George’s agent, Aaron Mintz, and expressed interest in his Indiana- contracted client.
    His exact words, I’m informed, were, “We’d like your guy to play for us.”

    My initial reaction upon learning the Lakers had been fined 500-large by commissioner Adam Silver for tampering was, do I get a finder’s fee?

    Unprecedented penalty aside, it translates into petty cash for an organization valued at $3 billion. Well, guess what? Catching a team tampering is also unprecedented. Seems to me, the league’s lark in the park judgment was extra light in its legislation.

    No suspensions of a Laker executive or two? No draft pick(s) forfeited? No forbidding George to sign with the Lakers (see below) next summer? No forcing the Lakers to watch reruns of the insipid Magic Hour?
    No substantive sanctions!

    Nada!

    Show me the deterrent!

    When a team is finally found guilty, finally found culpable of committing an anti-tampering violation, the sentence needs to be sizably stiffer as a warning to other executives.

    Now they just know they have to be more careful.

    Still, just because Adam Silver feels his punishment fits the crime, it doesn’t mean Herb Simon will accept it. A confidant of the Pacers’ long-time owner, says he plans to raise a stink at the league’s next Board of Governors meeting. "He’s so fed up, don’t be shocked if he sues the league and the Lakers for damages."

    Jeanie Buss is probably quietly celebrating her team's avoidance of more drastic consequence, but now’s not the time to lay low. She needs to assert herself internally. She owes it to her father, family and the fans to demonstrate dishonesty won’t be tolerated.

    Pelinka disgraced the integrity of one of the most revered franchises in professional sports! That alone should trigger Jeanie to suspend him indefinitely. Jerry Buss would’ve fired him before the announced verdict escaped the league office. Jim Buss is no doubt laughing his *** off.

    For placing the Lakers in serious jeopardy of losing valuable assets other than paper, and staining the Lakers’ image, Pelinka has earned an early exit.

    At the same time, who believes for a split second Magic wasn’t well aware of what his GM was doing? Jeanie needs to get tough and vaporize him, too, I don’t care how many times he calls her his sister.
    Pelinka and Magic should be deported, it says here. That is, unless Jeanie endorsed the tampering.

    ************************************************** ************************************************** **
    Time to tidy up:
    For your information, Silver owned the freedom to fine the Lakers as much as $5M, as well as take away a first-round pick. Banning George to sign with the Lakers would've been out of bounds.

    Players have rights, too. Putting aside that prohibiting a player from joining whatever team he wants has never been done in the history of the NBA for 'attempting' to tamper, which is really what happened here.
    It’s safe to say the league is against a set of rules whereby a GM expresses an interest in a player under contract, the player's agent only acknowledges the interest and no explicit or implicit deals are cut or understood (at least that's the state of the record), and the result is that the player is banned from going to that team.

    Putting aside that it'd be unfair to the player, the union would go ballistic. It would maintain the player did nothing wrong, but, potentially, is suffering huge damage.

    Again, that's the state of facts as they stand after a 2-month investigation. Of course, if the league later finds there’s a deal in place with the player, a much harsher penalty would be in order.
    This just in: Magic swears he didn’t tamper, O.J. did.

    Last edited by Unclebuck; 09-02-2017 at 01:07 PM.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Holy crap. Herb is REALLY pissed. Good for him. Sue'em all!

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    I'm surprised Herb can get past his general apathy to do something like this.

    I'll believe it when he does it.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    The NBA's tampering penalties are a joke. The usual fine is in the range of 50k, so in that light 500k is a big step up to reflect the severity of the Lakers' actions, but at the same time 500k is still pretty much nothing for most NBA franchises, and especially so for the Lakers. I can understand Simon being upset.

    That said, I don't see how a lawsuit can work. Legally there isn't even such a thing as tampering - that only exists under the NBA's competition rules. Usually it is perfectly legal to poach another company's employees, for example.

    The way forward would be for Simon to convince other team owners to join him in lobbying for a stronger penalty against the Lakers. I'm not convinced a majority of team owners would support this though. Fact is, tampering is rife in the NBA and other teams must be wondering if supporting this would mean leaving themselves open to stronger penalties in the future.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I'm surprised Herb can get past his general apathy to do something like this.

    I'll believe it when he does it.
    General apathy? Just because he's pretty much a hands-off owner doesn't mean he's apathetic. Because he doesn't do business the way some would like him to do by writing blank checks to let the team flounder in the pits of the NBA for a decade or so doesn't mean he doesn't care about the team. He has a reputation around the NBA for fighting pretty hard for the Pacers.
    BillS

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    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    He has a reputation around the NBA for fighting pretty hard for the Pacers.
    I think his reputation is one of speaking when he's spoken to and never offending the NBA in the process. Not sure he has a reputation of fighting for the Pacers at all as far as going up against the NBA and bringing his billions to bear to change the NBA in any way that he feels would better benefit the Pacers. He at least publicly accepts whatever the NBA wants.

    So yeah, him actually filing a lawsuit would be unprecedented. He basically rolled over for the brawl so he must be pretty p8ssed to even threaten a lawsuit for this.
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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    wherever you stand on Herbie, an owner suing the league has to be pretty damn unprecedented right? I also have no clue what sorta grounds he'd sue on.

    I don't really care about All Star Weekend's location but Pacers are pushing for it soon btw.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    wherever you stand on Herbie, an owner suing the league has to be pretty damn unprecedented right? I also have no clue what sorta grounds he'd sue on.

    I don't really care about All Star Weekend's location but Pacers are pushing for it soon btw.
    The point may be to put more teeth in the NBA's tampering penalties. The $500,000 fine is the largest tampering fine in NBA history, but it's really a slap on the wrist. Imagine allowing the Lakers to only operate using 95% of the salary cap next summer. Or imagine not allowing Magic Johnson to work for the Lakers from June 1st to August 31st for 2 to 3 years, which is the only time period where Magic Johnson matters for the franchise.

    There can be more creative penalties than a fine, taking away a draft pick, or not allowing a player to sign with a team.
    #DBAP

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Quote Originally Posted by shags View Post
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    The point may be to put more teeth in the NBA's tampering penalties. The $500,000 fine is the largest tampering fine in NBA history, but it's really a slap on the wrist. Imagine allowing the Lakers to only operate using 95% of the salary cap next summer. Or imagine not allowing Magic Johnson to work for the Lakers from June 1st to August 31st for 2 to 3 years, which is the only time period where Magic Johnson matters for the franchise.

    There can be more creative penalties than a fine, taking away a draft pick, or not allowing a player to sign with a team.
    on principle I'ld never support preventing a player signing somewhere or docking a franchise's payroll ability, you wanna talk about suing the league THAT'S how the league gets sued. losing picks would be one thing if the lost pick/s went to the "wronged" team I guess but even then I'm not sure I like it.

    it'd have to be, I don't know, something like a docking of TV revenue a lot like it went during the merger. maybe some sorta, and just thinking out loud here, but the fine is LARGE, 5+mil, but counts towards the cap as a sort of 16th/18th roster spot that they obviously couldn't fill with an actual player and any tax ramifications that may come with that.

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    Default Re: NBA to investigate Lakers re alleged George tampering. (Vecsey)

    Questions I have: What are the maximum options for Adam Silver in regards to punishing a team for tampering? Vecsey suggests a maximum fine of $5m and taking away a draft pick. Can it be a 1st round pick? Presumably but not clear. And what else, if anything, is he allowed to do? Vecsey also suggested that Silver could not ban the Lakers from signing George. Is that literally true, or just effectively true?

    I can see the argument against banning him from signing there because that hurts Paul as well as the team, but then again I'm not sure the players are supposed to be involved in their end of tampering, either, are they? And what about specifically prohibiting him from signing there just in 2018, but then he is free to do so any time after?

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