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Thread: So how many more chances will Artest get

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default So how many more chances will Artest get

    I realize for many of you Ron has already used up his chances and then some.

    For others of us still hanging in there, I would like to know specifically will make you say enough is enough, Ron must go.

    Let me say one thing in response to Kravitz column. No, Ron has never led his team to the NBA Finals. Neither has T-Mac, KG, Lebron, Wade, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Steve Nash, well I could make a really long list.

    One other thing, I hear people say well Artest is a top 20, top 15 or maybe even a top 10 NBA talent. If that is all it was, if all he had was talent even that much talent, I would not be such a huge fan. But when you combine his talent, with his physical toughness, effort, energy, constant hustle and all the other good intangibles he brings, then you really have quite a player.






    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...507120400/1034

    How many more chances will this guy get?



    "I'm older and more mature now": Ron Artest says he will be on exemplary behavior upon returning to the Indiana Pacers. -- Sam Riche / The Star



    They still see what they want to see, still believe what they want to believe. And so the Indiana Pacers' brain trust sits in various spots around Conseco Fieldhouse on Monday, watching Ron Artest and knowing, absolutely knowing, that Artest can finally be trusted to stay out of trouble.

    They are seeing something I don't see. (And it's not for a lack of effort on my part. I've strained so hard to see Artest through their eyes, I've given myself a hernia.)

    But I fear the Pacers are fooling themselves once again.

    They are clinging, incredibly enough, to the notion that Artest will return next season a changed man and will help lead them to an NBA title.

    "What have you learned about yourself during this long time away from the game?" I asked Artest as he spoke Monday to the local media for the first time in months.

    He looked me in the eyes and smiled.

    "I always knew I'm a ghetto-type guy; I'm from the 'hood. I'll be ghetto the rest of my life," he said. "At the same time, there's a lot of kids who look up to you. For that, I'll change."

    So let me understand.

    Artest is going to manage his temper better because he wants to be a better role model for kids?

    Sorry.

    I'm a suburbs-type guy.

    So maybe I don't get it.

    But it seems to me there are a lot more important reasons Artest must get his act together as the Pacers grant him yet another last chance -- his eighth, if my count is accurate:

    How about changing for his teammates, who risked their safety during the Throwdown in Motown and played through unimaginable circumstances?

    How about changing for an organization that has always publicly (if not always privately) given Artest support and second opportunities?

    How about changing because at his current pace, he risks becoming another Dennis Rodman, a sad caricature who becomes known for his antics rather than his talent.

    For Artest, though, there's this ominous bottom line: "I'm a 'hood cat."

    That's the explanation for the multiple missteps over the years?

    I remember something Isiah Thomas once said as he recalled his impoverished childhood in Chicago: "I'm from the ghetto, but I'm not of the ghetto."

    Give me five minutes, and I'll give you a list of 50 players who come from circumstances as bad or worse than Artest. And I'll promise you none of them has drawn a near yearlong suspension for hitting a fan.

    When Artest was asked Monday if he went to any therapy sessions during his suspension, he looked into the distance. "It was suggested," he said. "But I turned it down."

    If he did engage in some kind of therapy, I can appreciate his desire to keep that private. For some people, there's a stigma attached -- even though there shouldn't be.

    All I'll say is, if he didn't get some kind of counseling, he completely wasted the best chance he will ever have to turn around his life on the court.

    "Do you think you have an anger management problem?" I asked later.

    "No," he said evenly. "I'm ghetto. That's it."

    I believe people can change.

    But I've heard this all before: "I'll learn from my mistakes" and "I know now that I've got to put the team first" and "I'm older and more mature now."

    I can understand if fans buy into that nonsense. They're supposed to be true believers.

    But Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh? And team president Larry Bird? Wasn't there the overwhelming sense that when Bird was hired, he would be a no-nonsense leader who would trade a player in a heartbeat if he disgraced the game or this organization?

    Remember how he immediately busted on Jermaine O'Neal for expressing his affinity for Thomas, the previous Pacers' coach?

    When last season ended, Bird used the occasion to challenge O'Neal once again. Not that O'Neal couldn't use a healthy kick to the posterior, but at least he played and often played hurt.

    How about Artest, who was ready to abandon his team early in the season, even before the brawl?

    And to think, we used to rip Thomas for being too soft on Artest.

    But we can't trade him.

    Wrong.

    They can trade him tomorrow.

    The issue is, they know they can't get equal value, or anything close to equal value.

    They know that when Artest is concentrating on winning basketball, he's the greatest bargain in the NBA.

    Tell me, though, how many times has Artest led his team to the NBA Finals?

    And how far did the Pacers get in last season's playoffs with a team whose players trusted one another, and were willing to sacrifice for the good of the team?

    Let's get this straight:

    I like Artest. I want Artest to become a superstar instead of a national punch line. There is absolutely nothing personal behind the criticism.

    But it's time, past time, for Walsh and Bird to think with their heads, and not with their hearts.

    Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star

  2. #2

    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    First off, I never ever take anything Kravitz says seriously, because he's there only to upset people in the first place. It's his job

    Artest, for me, gets chances because the guy is too good. I want to believe that he has truly changed after what happened last year, and I am willing to keep him here for that. He is just such a great great player. If he has one more thing like last year, then maybe it's time to get rid of him. But I don't think it will happen, and I think he will have a superb year.

    What happened last year, with us going to the semis, was nice and all, but I don't think we could do it again this year. That was won with quite a bit of heart, and a lot of Reggie and Dale. What we need now is for these group of players to play as a team, but Artest has got to be a part of it. All of the characteristics UB mentioned are so vital, and we saw that this year many of those would have really helped the team. I remember how it was before the 19th, how good this team really was. I'm excited to think that we can become that again.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  3. #3

    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Ron deserves and is getting at least one more chance, that's for sure.

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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Let's get this straight:

    I like Artest. I want Artest to become a superstar instead of a national punch line. There is absolutely nothing personal behind the criticism.

    Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star
    What a bunch of BS this is. The only part that is truthful is Kravitz saying it's not personal with him. How could it be personal, did Artest ever do anything Kravitz?

    Just by reading Kravitz articles you know he prefers stirring the pot. He does not want Artest to get his act together because then there are no stories. Kravitz problem is he has a dream of being one of the talking heads on Around the Horn. Of course you have to have a personality to do that and Kravitz has none.

    By the way, ONE more screw-up (and I don't mean a simple tech) and Artest needs to be cut.

  5. #5
    foretaz
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    kravitz is just like a minority of fans....

    he can say how its a huge mistake and artest will never change and should be shipped off.....that he ran out of chances and so on and so forth...

    then if something does happen, he can say i told u so.....

    and if nothing does happen, then he can allude to what else he said....that he was glad that ron did change-as he truly had hoped that all along...and that he couldnt be happier for the pacers....and bird and walsh once again have proven how good they are if they could truly rehab a guy that was as bad off as artest....

    its really a joke....call them spineless...call them a bunch of pu$$ies....call them whatever u like....its just a way of setting themselves up for an excuse....people love to say i told u so....and many peoples main concern is being right....

    bottom line is i trust bird and i trust walsh....kravitz and a minority of fans have very little actual info....just like most fans, kravitz has gotten very few details....yesterday was the first time he had talked to artest in almost 8 months....it cracks me up how kravitz and fans can speak so authoritatively and judgementally on something they have very little knowledge of....

    bird and walsh have all the details....they know ron and his situation far better than some lame brain writer or fan....ill trust their judgement and knowledge of the situation....since they seem to be far better suited to make such judgements...

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthman
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    Ron deserves and is getting at least one more chance, that's for sure.

    I realize that, I guess I'm more interested in what "one more chance" means.

    One missed practice, one flagrant foul, one refusal to get on the team plane, one league suspension for any reason if it is only one game

  7. #7
    foretaz
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    ron should be treated the same as any other player on the team....

    i really dont like this one more chance thing....

    if ron or anyone else does something that merits being gotten rid of, i assume donnie and larry will do so....

    bottom line is ron hasnt done anything to do that....because hes still here....

    we could just as well be discussing the same situation with jack or jo or tins or anyone else....

    does anyone wonder that if jack continues to reference his gang ties he will be shipped out?

    sorry, but the whole frame of reference seems to go back to the wanting to say 'i told u so' thing....

    i hope noone on the team does anything to warrant any action by the team....

    and if they do i trust bird and walsh to do the right thing....

    peoples love for the dramatic, hence one more chance, has very little to do with the basketball team....

    i look forward to seeing what the final roster is for opening nite and watching just how great this team will be.....

    not looking to see if artest or someone else screws up

  8. #8
    Gamble
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    I just wrote Kravitz and told him that he fits perfect in this state.
    Always negative and never believing in any team. I wonder why
    Kravitz left Denver to come to here. Maybe he got fired for being
    a rock in the cities shoe. I don't even know why he still has a job
    here.

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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    What one more chance means to me is not that complicated. There is a certain norm we do expect society to follow. That's all I expect from Ron. We shouldn't have to come up with a specific and unrealistic list considered the taboo things that would get Ron fired (ala Bob Knight).

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    ron should be treated the same as any other player on the team....

    i really dont like this one more chance thing....

    if ron or anyone else does something that merits being gotten rid of, i assume donnie and larry will do so....

    bottom line is ron hasnt done anything to do that....because hes still here....



    I just have to ask why you're on a message board? Why waste your time talking about something that Bird and Walsh will handle perfectly anyway? If I was that trusting I would never read a sports page, go on a message board, or listen to a sports show. I would just watch a game and know that anything good that happened was due to Managements great judgement and that anything bad that happened would be a fluke.

    Quote Originally Posted by fortaz
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    call them a bunch of pu$$ies


    Perhaps I'm just being one of these, along with the rest of those who question the divine wisdom of Larry Bird.
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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    God damn. I had thought Kravitz likes to say something stupid and ridiculous just to get a reaction, and then I read Foretaz's response. Now, I think Kravitz's piece was somewhat mellow and well thought-out in comparison.

    Anyhow, I have mellowed a bit on Artest, so I don't really have a problem with giving him another chance. I don't think it's the greatest of ideas, but I can live with it.
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

  12. #12
    foretaz
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    lemme see....

    questioning someones divine wisdom...

    because what they do differs from what u would do....

    and they have all the facts and are directly involved with the parties involved on a day to day basis...

    and you have no real knowledge of the situation or any involvement with the parties involved....

    now again....whos wisdom should be questioned???

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    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Personally I had no problem with Kravitz article. His comment while some take them as a personal vendetta against Ron were legit.

    I was under the impression Ron Artest , was ordered by David Stern to seek councelling as part of his program for reinstatement. So if thats the case Ron did .

    Ron's refusal to admit he has any type of anger problem worries me. Admitting to a problem is the first step in controlling that problem. If he seeked help and received it but does not want to admit it - no problem. But if he didn't , I WORRY we will see very little of Ron Artest on the court this season. Ron will be tested by opponents , fans and officials like he never has been in the past.

    The how many chances Uncle Buck poses is very real. What will be considered another chance???? If Ron is late for practice repeatedly? If Ron has outburst in practice ? During a game?

    If these occur when is the time Larry & Donnie say enough is enough and get whatever they can for Ron??

    Hopefully this does not occur, but the question must be asked, and Pacer brass must have a point set for when enough is enough.

    Though I truely hope Ron Artest has changed , talk is cheap . Ron will forever be a player most Pacer fans will hold their breathe everytime there is a mild incident on the court - will Ron blow up? Lets hope Ron , will ease that fear as time goes on.

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    I 100% believe that Ron had some sort of therapy during his suspension, I just don't think he is admitting to it.

    Didn't Stern himself say he had therapy? (Not a classy move, by the way. There's a reason Ron doesn't reveal that, Stern was an *** for doing so.)
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by foretaz
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    lemme see....

    questioning someones divine wisdom...

    because what they do differs from what u would do....

    and they have all the facts and are directly involved with the parties involved on a day to day basis...

    and you have no real knowledge of the situation or any involvement with the parties involved....

    now again....whos wisdom should be questioned???
    Thats my point. No ones. You shouldn't waste your time with it. They obviously know exponentially more than you or I. Clearly you could just go golfing right now. It seems pretty pointless to discuss things that are completely under control and in good hands.
    All in for DG33

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00
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    Personally I had no problem with Kravitz article. His comment while some take them as a personal vendetta against Ron were legit.

    I was under the impression Ron Artest , was ordered by David Stern to seek councelling as part of his program for reinstatement. So if thats the case Ron did .

    Ron's refusal to admit he has any type of anger problem worries me. Admitting to a problem is the first step in controlling that problem. If he seeked help and received it but does not want to admit it - no problem. But if he didn't , I WORRY we will see very little of Ron Artest on the court this season. Ron will be tested by opponents , fans and officials like he never has been in the past.

    The how many chances Uncle Buck poses is very real. What will be considered another chance???? If Ron is late for practice repeatedly? If Ron has outburst in practice ? During a game?

    If these occur when is the time Larry & Donnie say enough is enough and get whatever they can for Ron??

    Hopefully this does not occur, but the question must be asked, and Pacer brass must have a point set for when enough is enough.

    Though I truely hope Ron Artest has changed , talk is cheap . Ron will forever be a player most Pacer fans will hold their breathe everytime there is a mild incident on the court - will Ron blow up? Lets hope Ron , will ease that fear as time goes on.
    Two Diamond Daves think alike.

    But be careful dave, you might just be spineless or a pu$$ie.

    I don't think so, I believe it is possible to hope for the best and just not expect it.
    All in for DG33

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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    Two Diamond Daves think alike.

    But be careful dave, you might just be spineless or a pu$$ie.
    DD, I know foretaz doesn't need anyone to defend him, but I must have missed any reference to him calling you or any other forum member this?

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    flexible and robust SoupIsGood's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    kravitz is just like a minority of fans....

    [snip]

    its really a joke....call them spineless...call them a bunch of pu$ies....call them whatever u like....its just a way of setting themselves up for an excuse....people love to say i told u so....and many peoples main concern is being right....

    er.... uhm... eh, yes let's just
    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB
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    DD, I know foretaz doesn't need anyone to defend him, but I must have missed any reference to him calling you or any other forum member this?
    See his first reply in this thread. He said that Kravitz is the same a small minority of fans which includes me, as I agree with Kravitz. He then proceeds to call that minority spineless and pu$$ies.
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    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Considering I'm one of those who's "one more chance" occured 11/19.....

    but I feel like Soup does on this issue. Therefore....


    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  21. #21

    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    You know, every Ron thread is going to degenerate into For and Against, so why do we bother talking about him anyway? Lets just wait to see what he does this year...
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness
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    You know, every Ron thread is going to degenerate into For and Against, so why do we bother talking about him anyway? Lets just wait to see what he does this year...
    I can agree with that.
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond Dave
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    See his first reply in this thread. He said that Kravitz is the same a small minority of fans which includes me, as I agree with Kravitz. He then proceeds to call that minority spineless and pu$$ies.
    I stand corrected.

  24. #24
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Sorry I started this thread.

  25. #25
    Mjolnir Diamond Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how many more chances will Artest get

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck
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    Sorry I started this thread.
    See, I really liked the idea of this thread. I wanted to see what everyone's final straw was, if there was a straw. If we can just take the namecalling and the idea that everyone should just agree with management because they obviously know know more mentality out of it, then we could have a good thread.

    So I propose we re-start this thread by asking you UB, what would be you're final straw?
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